D*rby to be relegated? | Page 61 | Vital Football

D*rby to be relegated?

Well it seems to have got them out of paying Cocu his £5m payoff… 😳
Yes I saw that. I don't understand how that squares with the obligation to prioritise football creditors. Are n't Cocu, or Mistake- eogh, football creditors? What is the accountancy justification for them not being?
 
Yes I saw that. I don't understand how that squares with the obligation to prioritise football creditors. Are n't Cocu, or Mistake- eogh, football creditors? What is the accountancy justification for them not being?
I have struggled to find anything definitive but the various articles I have read talk about transfer fees and salaries. I can only guess that with Cocu and Keogh both being ‘compensation’ it doesn’t count.
 
I have struggled to find anything definitive but the various articles I have read talk about transfer fees and salaries. I can only guess that with Cocu and Keogh both being ‘compensation’ it doesn’t count.

Compensation in lieu of unpaid wages/remaining contract?
 
Compensation in lieu of unpaid wages/remaining contract?
That’s where I struggle and still can’t find anything beyond salaries and transfer fees being ‘football creditors’.

You would think there would be something definitive within easy reach online but it seems not.
 
I have struggled to find anything definitive but the various articles I have read talk about transfer fees and salaries. I can only guess that with Cocu and Keogh both being ‘compensation’ it doesn’t count.
I was thinking this and asked my friend who happens to be an accountant he replied that under administration rules compensation and salaries are indeed separate issues and do fall under creditor's owed, therefore fall in line with other such creditor's ie: suppliers of goods to the club.
 
I was thinking this and asked my friend who happens to be an accountant he replied that under administration rules compensation and salaries are indeed separate issues and do fall under creditor's owed, therefore fall in line with other such creditor's ie: suppliers of goods to the club.
Thanks for that. It’s odd that there isn’t anything that makes that more clear.

Bet Cocu and Keogh are thrilled…
 
Thanks for that. It’s odd that there isn’t anything that makes that more clear.

Bet Cocu and Keogh are thrilled…

Both are/were employees and the 'compensation' relates to unpaid wages (Cocu) and wages + (compensation) for Keogh.

I would have thought they were protected creditors to some extent?
 
Both are/were employees and the 'compensation' relates to unpaid wages (Cocu) and wages + (compensation) for Keogh.

I would have thought they were protected creditors to some extent?

They are fully protected under the agreement.

All football related debts - wages, signing on fees, bonuses and outstanding transfer fees are covered under the ruling.

I'm not sure how that leaves the staff, ie, admin and ticket office personnel; I would think they come outside of that remit.
 
They are fully protected under the agreement.

All football related debts - wages, signing on fees, bonuses and outstanding transfer fees are covered under the ruling.

I'm not sure how that leaves the staff, ie, admin and ticket office personnel; I would think they come outside of that remit.
Both are/were employees and the 'compensation' relates to unpaid wages (Cocu) and wages + (compensation) for Keogh.

I would have thought they were protected creditors to some extent?
In theory they should be but there was an article a week or so ago that suggested that Cocu would not be getting his as a result of the club going into administration.

Typically I can’t find it now…
 
They are fully protected under the agreement.

All football related debts - wages, signing on fees, bonuses and outstanding transfer fees are covered under the ruling.

I'm not sure how that leaves the staff, ie, admin and ticket office personnel; I would think they come outside of that remit.

Was told the liability is just under £8m for Cocu (& his staff) and Keogh.

Arsenal have deferred the next payment due for Bielik (£1.5m) but if remains unpaid, apparently they can recall him - without any compensation for Derby.

There are several other players who left, end of contract or sold - that are due bonuses - they agreed to defer these too.

Unfortunately, it's local suppliers and the back room staff who will lose out.

Mel just wants rid, he's been very unwell - so, may just cut his losses - although, he does own ground, training ground - subject to mortgages/floating charge etc
 
Was told the liability is just under £8m for Cocu (& his staff) and Keogh.

Arsenal have deferred the next payment due for Bielik (£1.5m) but if remains unpaid, apparently they can recall him - without any compensation for Derby.

There are several other players who left, end of contract or sold - that are due bonuses - they agreed to defer these too.

Unfortunately, it's local suppliers and the back room staff who will lose out.

Mel just wants rid, he's been very unwell - so, may just cut his losses - although, he does own ground, training ground - subject to mortgages/floating charge etc

Mel does not want rid that badly; I heard he was the one canvassing the administrators to appeal the 12 points deduction.
 
There is definitely not going to be a short timescale here. This will run and run and it wouldn’t surprise me if there were a distinct lack of offers for thff we club until their fate in this division is known.

Mel owning the ground etc does not help matters, particularly with the charges and th red HMRC debt is just the icing on the cake.
 
Mel does not want rid that badly; I heard he was the one canvassing the administrators to appeal the 12 points deduction.

It's much more saleable without the penalty - as that increases the chances of avoiding relegation (notwithstanding the other potential penalties).

Pretty much inevitable they (Mel) were going to appeal - especially as the decision in Wigan's appeal stated that their appeal did not fall under force majeure.
 
There is definitely not going to be a short timescale here. This will run and run and it wouldn’t surprise me if there were a distinct lack of offers for thff we club until their fate in this division is known.

Mel owning the ground etc does not help matters, particularly with the charges and th red HMRC debt is just the icing on the cake.

I'm sure I read that the decision would be made by early November... not sure where though?
 
It's much more saleable without the penalty - as that increases the chances of avoiding relegation (notwithstanding the other potential penalties).

Pretty much inevitable they (Mel) were going to appeal - especially as the decision in Wigan's appeal stated that their appeal did not fall under force majeure.
I'm sure I read that the decision would be made by early November... not sure where though?
I know that feeling…

The appeal should be fairly quick but then there’s the other penalty(ies) and all of the issues with the debts. Although it has gone quiet I am quite sure the EFL hasn’t forgotten those 9 points.

Mel’s twisting and turning and the splitting of ownership is going to make things fun. A lot will depend on how much he is prepared to lose on the ‘assets’ that he still holds versus how quickly he wants this all to be over.
 
I know that feeling…

The appeal should be fairly quick but then there’s the other penalty(ies) and all of the issues with the debts. Although it has gone quiet I am quite sure the EFL hasn’t forgotten those 9 points.

Mel’s twisting and turning and the splitting of ownership is going to make things fun. A lot will depend on how much he is prepared to lose on the ‘assets’ that he still holds versus how quickly he wants this all to be over.

I do not think Mel will get a say in what the assets are sold for; MSD own the debentures.

It will also be totally irrelevant what the book value of both assets are; MSD will sell both as distressed assets just to get their money back.

I think the course of events from now on will be something like:

a) Independent tribunal will make judgement - running concurrently to that will be the Administrators carrying out due diligence on interested parties.

b) Judgement will be passed

c) Administrators will decide who gets access to the books

d) Someone will decide to buy

e) Whoever decides to buy will enter negotiations with MSD

f) New owners get fit and proper validation

g) sale is finalised.

The only grey area is at what point the discussion on the points deduction for the P & S breach will take place.
 
From John Percy in the Telegraph...

Special report: Inside Derby County's desperate battle for survival
The clock is ticking on Derby's future and Wayne Rooney is the public face of a club desperately trying to keep itself together

It was approaching the end of a Zoom call from Derby’s administrators last week when Wayne Rooney took control to deliver his own personal message to staff and players.

“Stick together and we will come out of this” was the instruction from Derby’s defiant manager, who is leading from the front as the stricken Championship club face a race against time to avoid liquidation.

The clock is ticking on Derby’s future and Rooney is the public face of a club desperately trying to keep itself together during a crisis, after slipping into administration last month.

Around 15 staff members have been made redundant, the collateral damage of Derby’s situation, and there could be further trouble ahead if a buyer is not found.

Yet Quantuma, the administrators, are adopting an equally resilient tone to Rooney and remain confident that Derby, one of the founder members of the Football League, will be sold before Christmas.

It is a painful situation, complicated further by so many complex strands to any sale, but this is a proud, historic club that needs saving and should never be in this position.

“Derby is a Premier League club in all but status, with a terrific infrastructure, and I think that will be very attractive,” said Carl Jackson, one of Quantuma's lead administrators.

“I have no doubt that we will attract a number of interested parties who have the financial wherewithal and the credentials to fulfil the Football League rules.

“We are currently talking to seven or eight, who have demonstrated to us that they have the funding and the ability to acquire a club of this size.”

Derby remain bottom of the Championship, after being docked 12 points last month, but Rooney is squeezing everything out of his tiny squad: they have been beaten only three times this season, and only once in their last five games.

Championship 2021/22 latest standings (bottom six)
English Football League - Championship
Team P W D L GD Pts
19 Swansea City 11 2 5 4 -5 11
20 Cardiff City 11 3 2 6 -7 11
21 Hull City 11 2 3 6 -7 9
22 Barnsley 11 1 5 5 -7 8
23 Peterborough United 11 2 2 7 -11 8
24 Derby County 11 3 5 3 -1 2

Quantuma are determined to ensure Rooney’s preparations remain unaffected, so cost-cutting on the football side of the business has been kept to a minimum: this week, for example, Derby have provided funds for an overnight stay before Saturday’s game at Preston.

There has been further good news over the past week, with Arsenal agreeing to defer a payment of £1.4 million owed for midfielder Krystian Bielik. Club sponsors 32Red have also accelerated a £300,000 quarterly payment to assist cash-flow.

Despite the departures of respected and popular employees including Shane Nicholson, the first-team fitness coach, operations manager John Barton and head of technical scouting Harry Croft, the general feeling was one of relief and surprise that cuts were not so drastic.

However, the financial situation does remain bleak: they owe £26m to HM Revenue and Customs, which mostly consists of PAYE and National Insurance for players and staff.

American investment group MSD are owed over £15m for a loan, while there is over £10m in transfer instalments due for Bielik and Kamil Jozwiak.

Time is running out before various nightmare scenarios come into play - including player sales in January, pay deferrals and more redundancies.

Jackson said: “The liabilities to the club are significant. The reality is that those debts won’t get paid off in full.

"We need to come up with a proposal which meets the EFL rules in terms of football creditors, and payments to unsecured creditors, which is 25p in a pound, and complies to HMRC who have now got preferential status.

“We must also ensure the MSD secured debt is paid off. We have discussed these numbers with the [interested] parties and it hasn’t frightened them off.

“It’s not easy but with the various sources of revenues coming through we feel we can trade through until Christmas. We hope to be in and out of it by then.”

Quantuma are effectively “vetting” the potential new owners for the Football League, insisting on proof of £5m in order for parties to gain access to Derby’s finances and the data room.

Seven separate groups have signed non-disclosure agreements and one of the most recent to enter serious talks was a consortium led by former Wolves chief executive Jez Moxey, working on behalf of General Sports Worldwide, which includes former Derby chairman Andrew Appleby and former CEO Sam Rush.

American investment firm Carlisle Capital is another interested party and Garry Cook, the former Manchester City CEO, has been in talks with Derby for nearly a year.

Telegraph Sport is also aware of two other parties who have signed NDAs, but will not be naming them at this stage due to confidentiality. Links to former Newcastle owner Mike Ashley have been dismissed.

Derby’s long-running row with the EFL could be pivotal to a sale. The feud was reignited earlier this week after Quantuma lodged an appeal against the club’s 12-point deduction for going into administration.

After receiving legal advice from sports lawyer Nick De Marco, Quantuma are arguing that the punishment is unreasonable due to the impact of Covid-19 on finances.

However, the EFL is said to be shocked at Derby’s appeal as it believes the club’s financial problems clearly pre-date Covid.

There are also suspicions from rival clubs that it is an attempt to reduce the nine-point deduction for historical financial breaches which is also hanging over the club.

Wigan’s own appeal over the punishment for administration was rejected last August, and Derby’s case will be heard by a disciplinary commission within a month.

Against this chaotic backdrop, Rooney is enhancing his reputation as a manager in his first job since retirement.

He has already guided Derby to positive numbers in the table and is revelling in his role as a leader, on and off the field.

If he can somehow navigate a route to safety it will be an outstanding achievement. But for now, Derby are just hoping there is still a club to save.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...side-derby-countys-desperate-battle-survival/