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Buddha said:
What could be more practical than co-operation?

In my experience things always seem to work better when people help each other out and generally co-operate. But that's just my experience.
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Co-operating in what way.
Could any potential asylum seeker borrow your van for a few months? 😘
 
shotshy said:
Co-operating in what way.
Could any potential asylum seeker borrow your van for a few months? 😘
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I know I'm on the other side to the pro-immigration crew, but an idea would be to pay the asylum seekers money, and build them houses, in their own country. Making them trudge halfway around the world to get free money and free housing is a huge waste of effort and bad for the environment.
 
shotshy said:
Co-operating in what way.
Could any potential asylum seeker borrow your van for a few months? 😘
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So many different ways, mate. I don't expect you to necessarily understand but my community has a DIY ethos and it is based upon not merely an understanding of mutual aid and co-operation but the practical application of it.

You're viewing the refugees and asylum seekers as the problem whereas as I see them as fellow human beings whose desperate plight is a symptom of the actual problem.

Rather than paying asylum seekers money and building houses for them in their war torn home countries we could simply refrain from selling arms and promoting war. That'd be a start.

As for borrowing my van, there's a bed in the back of it and if somebody needs a place to sleep it's available. My community is welcoming to those who face persecution and discrimination because we know what that feels like to face . If people need help we'll offer it because we know how grateful we've been when we've needed help and others have offered us some.
 
Rather than paying asylum seekers money and building houses for them in their war torn home countries we could simply refrain from selling arms and promoting war. That'd be a start.

So, what about the ones coming from countries that we have not sold arms to or promoted war?
 
Buddha said:
As for borrowing my van, there's a bed in the back of it and if somebody needs a place to sleep it's available. My community is welcoming to those who face persecution and discrimination because we know what that feels like to face . If people need help we'll offer it because we know how grateful we've been when we've needed help and others have offered us some.
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People DO need help, and have done for some time. Is this what you WOULD do, or what you HAVE done?

Can someone else chip in as well - fair play to Buddha, at least he's having a go answering Shotshy's question
 
OK and trying to be honest.

I've a spare bed. Our kid and her four rock up unexpectedly, the Student Affairs Office says there's a foreign student whose lease won't start until next week, and the Salvation Army's just told me there's a person with no resources who's been kicked out of their refuge for being a nuisance who needs a place, well...indefinitely.

Scarcity, selfishness, and me, mine and others all come into play.

Back to Shotshy's questions
Let them all in? Whether they do or do not pose a threat to all we hold dear, their presence will create an ongoing mess and all we hold dear (plus the ability to help which it produces) will be threatened even if in some sense people are wrong to worry.

Close the door? Contrary to sweeping claims about how people just move around and you can't stop this, it's not true. Try getting into China. Look at what happened at the Mexican border under Trump and after. Numbers went down even as jobs in lower paying sectors increased in the US. What are you prepared to do, see, and be to achieve this though becomes the question -drownings at sea, children in cages etc etc. But it can be done. Small scale, high profile demonstrations to be relayed back to the source, perhaps.

Go to the source? We do. Publicity campaigns saying don't come. Police work disrupting trafficking networks, and development assistance/intervention. I put those two together deliberately -as we leave Afghanistan after decades of provincial reconstruction teamwork, you'd better provide our consular staff with people capable of delivering five rounds rapid as they head off into the communities with their bad news.

My answer? For two days -the foreign student gets the bed. Our kid and hers get our bed. And we sleep on the couches -for two days, mind -then the student is out and we get the spare. The troubled person -no chance. Going concerns can be destroyed by troubled people, and then we're all worse off. If the troubled person's mine, I'll try it, but not otherwise.
 
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LancsGordoRoad said:
Theoretically, there is a solution, but the practicality required to achieve it is the biggest challenge. The solution is to make the (original) places from which refugees currently flee safer, more sustainable and less corrupt nations. Ironically, if the many countries who contribute enormous sums to help refugees pooled their finance and resource, there would likely be sufficient to underpin the change required. But equally ironic, perhaps, is that the pooling nations would have to enforce the eradication of corruption - and that might lead to even more conflict !! Vicious circle at present.
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yes that is the solution.

it would also be helpful if other nations did not destabilise or bomb those countries which would then simplify and cheapen said solution.
 
shotshy said:
Rather than paying asylum seekers money and building houses for them in their war torn home countries we could simply refrain from selling arms and promoting war. That'd be a start.

So, what about the ones coming from countries that we have not sold arms to or promoted war?
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hmm, that must be a very short list. In fact if you add 'did not put sanctions on' then i cannot think of any lol.
 
LancsGordoRoad said:
I think I alluded to unworkable in my post, though, the theory is, in essence, is a solution. With many years behind me in the job that I have done (and, I suspect, likewise with your working background) I feel confident that i`m in the real world !

One thing for sure, trying to silence or shut down opinion, on the back of easy to sling around virtue, will not solve this issues - but I suppose it makes some people feel better.
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You made it clear that you were talking about an ideal situation Lancs. My comment about the real world was not directed at you but more at the idea that borders can be sealed and migration controlled perfectly in the modern world.
 
 
jogills said:
You made it clear that you were talking about an ideal situation Lancs. My comment about the real world was not directed at you but more at the idea that borders can be sealed and migration controlled perfectly in the modern world.
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I didn`t take it as specifically aimed at me, Jogills. I concur with your notion about borders and control. Improved communication, travel, phones, TV and even word of mouth awakened a huge number of people to the vision of less troubled places. Understandably, people want a better life. But, until the world finds a way of evening out resource and sustainability, how do we avoid the unintended consequences of so much people movement ? It`s a bit of a mess isn`t it ? Actually it`s more a right royal ***k up.
 
Funny how we live in a housing crisis when the developers seem keen on unaffordable accommodation in places where the concept is laughable. New estates cropping up in Medway alone are sold as <50% affordable. What about London? Kidbrooke is now 38% affordable FFS!

Meanwhile in the more central postcodes like Vauxhall and Southwark many apartments are glorified summer homes. I look at scorn at all the ugly developments going up.

The Government and its councils have the power to turn the tide on this. In the meantime free up unsold and underused apartments. Make more affordable, both housing and apartments. FFS fix your council incompetence and develop proper housing plans, rather than inaction leading to pandering to developers through fear of being taken to court.

It may need to take a hit on purchasing some for the aim of accommodating refugees (in rented APARTMENTS with a grace period, not housing) who have been given residency.

We accept 100k refugees a year and a percentage of that will stay at friends and relatives. Meanwhile people (particularly refugees and economic migrants) are leaving in their droves. Is it really the case that everyone partially sympathetic for the plight of immigrants needs to house one? Cheap argument.

Covid came at a horrid time in terms of accommodating those waiting to be processed. I feel somewhere like Folkestone barracks would’ve needed relatively minor improvements (more toilet and washing facilities) in order to be habitable pre-Covid. There was no hot water, no electricity (you can argue the need for that?) and 1 shower between 200 (Govt planned 300). But in Covid you simply cannot bung hundreds of people together in barracks, whether or not there are sufficient facilities. 200 people contracted Covid there.

Even our prisons. How many cells contain people who have been incarcerated for such non-jailworthy (IMO) like non-payment of their licence fee?! 1/3 of total female convictions are for the TV fucking licence.
 
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Trev_GFC said:
Funny how we live in a housing crisis when the developers seem keen on unaffordable accommodation in places where the concept is laughable. New estates cropping up in Medway alone are sold as <50% affordable. What about London? Kidbrooke is now 38% affordable FFS!

Meanwhile in the more central postcodes like Vauxhall and Southwark many apartments are glorified summer homes. I look at scorn at all the ugly developments going up.

The Government and its councils have the power to turn the tide on this. In the meantime free up unsold and underused apartments. Make more affordable, both housing and apartments. FFS fix your council incompetence and develop proper housing plans, rather than inaction leading to pandering to developers through fear of being taken to court.

It may need to take a hit on purchasing some for the aim of accommodating refugees (in rented APARTMENTS with a grace period, not housing) who have been given residency.

We accept 100k refugees a year and a percentage of that will stay at friends and relatives. Meanwhile people (particularly refugees and economic migrants) are leaving in their droves. Is it really the case that everyone partially sympathetic for the plight of immigrants needs to house one? Cheap argument.

Covid came at a horrid time in terms of accommodating those waiting to be processed. I feel somewhere like Folkestone barracks would’ve needed minor improvements (more toilet and washing facilities) in order to be habitable pre-Covid. In Covid you simply cannot bung hundreds of people together in barracks, whether or not there are sufficient facilities.

Even our prisons. How many cells contain people who have been incarcerated for such non-jailworthy (IMO) like non-payment of their licence fee?! 1/3 of total female convictions are for the TV fucking licence.
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No argument with much of what you say Trev but that 100,000 figure is way out. This year's figures are down to covid 19 and other factors but we've been nowhere near that figure for years.

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...ny-people-do-we-grant-asylum-or-protection-to
 
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