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Euros

It should never have got to penalties, they were there for the taking, instead, we decided to play the whole game in our half instead of theirs.
Agreed, Southgate said earlier in the tournament that we had learned from the Russian experience, and yet we seemed to make exactly the same mistake last night that we made against Croatia in Russia. I. E. score early, dominate for a bit before dropping deeper & deeper to try to hang on to what we had which was never going to happen.
 
I have never been a Southgate supporter when it comes to team selections and deciding tactics. I think he is an incredible ambassador for our game, and a leader to create an environment and leadership group for the team to flourish.

As soon as I saw the team, I knew this would happen. I was stunned how great we played in the first half, but the lack of no-how came back to hurt us.

We have a bedrock of defence and attack which is better than Italy. We do need a Scoles / Carrick / Gerrard type midfielder to emerge, maybe Bellingham can in the future.
We have to build a team around the likes of Foden and Grealish. They are tailor-made for international, tournament football.

Mount cannot be in the front 3, and needs to be part of the midfield 3 and learn to develop a different role for England. Same with Saka. He is so versatile he can cover the left of a midfield 3, or left wing back.

Not wanting to sub Sterling was a blind spot too. Ultimately he's not a good manager at all. We have the team to win the final, and he blew it. Foden being injured was a big blow. Playing Mount constantly is unbelievable. We have 4/5 players better than him, in his position in the squad.

I have said similar but fair play to GS who does appear to have changed the culture and narrative of england. I think mistakes were made yesterday but he isnt shying away from that and he is still the best manager since alf ramsey based on his record.
 
I have said similar but fair play to GS who does appear to have changed the culture and narrative of england. I think mistakes were made yesterday but he isnt shying away from that and he is still the best manager since alf ramsey based on his record.

I think he's been a bit lucky with the way the draws have gone. If we could've fucked Southgate off for the night and put Venables in charge or anyone of the millions of football fans in England, we'd be European champions today.
 
I am probably a minority here, but I just can't muster any interest in recriminations or blame for this.

I don't blame Southgate and I don't feel like there was any magical tactical thing he could have done differently to make this game different.

I think the default assumption often is that the more "attacking" you are the better, whereas I tend to see it as much more about being in control. And control comes from the back and middle, not having 6 forwards on.

For me, England's best chance to win that game came from either taking one of the first half chances to make it 2-0 or not conceding a scrappy corner and seeing the game out.

I don't see a back 4 as the pancaea of performance, and certainly not Jack Grealish.

They lost to a better team and better players. A stupid premier League fad in penalty taking also cost them a chance in the shootout. As Billy Davies would say, it is what it is Natalie
 
The thing is in the last 3 years we have been able to talk about a failure in a semi-final followed by a failure in a final. Granted it’s still failure but it beats most of the last 50 years without even trying.

For me it’s progress and good progress at that. I have enjoyed it while it has lasted and if last night was a bit of a downer it’s nothing to watching us get done by Iceland…
 
I am probably a minority here, but I just can't muster any interest in recriminations or blame for this.

I don't blame Southgate and I don't feel like there was any magical tactical thing he could have done differently to make this game different.

I think the default assumption often is that the more "attacking" you are the better, whereas I tend to see it as much more about being in control. And control comes from the back and middle, not having 6 forwards on.

For me, England's best chance to win that game came from either taking one of the first half chances to make it 2-0 or not conceding a scrappy corner and seeing the game out.

I don't see a back 4 as the pancaea of performance, and certainly not Jack Grealish.

They lost to a better team and better players. A stupid premier League fad in penalty taking also cost them a chance in the shootout. As Billy Davies would say, it is what it is Natalie
They have a better midfield, and that is where he should have been braver in selection. We have a more solid defence and a far better attacking Arsenal. I like you don't agree with throwing 6 forwards on, but Mount and Saka for me should be considered as part of a midfield option in a 3 or 4. Those 3 forward positions is where an earlier introduction of Grealish for Mount could have made a difference.

Losing Foden as an option was also a huge loss. Those 2 guys offer control and a bravery in attack. Even Saka on the left of Phillips and Rice would have been a great option. The kid plays regularly as a WB for Arsenal, and many other positions. At 19 he is so adaptable and a huge talent we hope
 
I am probably a minority here, but I just can't muster any interest in recriminations or blame for this.

I don't blame Southgate and I don't feel like there was any magical tactical thing he could have done differently to make this game different.

I think the default assumption often is that the more "attacking" you are the better, whereas I tend to see it as much more about being in control. And control comes from the back and middle, not having 6 forwards on.

For me, England's best chance to win that game came from either taking one of the first half chances to make it 2-0 or not conceding a scrappy corner and seeing the game out.

I don't see a back 4 as the pancaea of performance, and certainly not Jack Grealish.

They lost to a better team and better players. A stupid premier League fad in penalty taking also cost them a chance in the shootout. As Billy Davies would say, it is what it is Natalie

But we didn't need 6 attackers. We had more than enough attacking threat and a midfield that 'controlled' it. We just didn't utilise what we had. We sat back, we invited the pressure instead of pressing high. We looked good for the 10-15 minutes we did it. We should've gone for that second goal to kill it off. Wehad pace up top against a slow and aging Italian defence but we let them off the hook. We played exactly how Italy would want us to.
 
But we didn't need 6 attackers. We had more than enough attacking threat and a midfield that 'controlled' it. We just didn't utilise what we had. We sat back, we invited the pressure instead of pressing high. We looked good for the 10-15 minutes we did it. We should've gone for that second goal to kill it off. Wehad pace up top against a slow and aging Italian defence but we let them off the hook. We played exactly how Italy would want us to.
Did they sit back or did Italy press them back?
 
I am probably a minority here, but I just can't muster any interest in recriminations or blame for this.

I don't blame Southgate and I don't feel like there was any magical tactical thing he could have done differently to make this game different.

I think the default assumption often is that the more "attacking" you are the better, whereas I tend to see it as much more about being in control. And control comes from the back and middle, not having 6 forwards on.

For me, England's best chance to win that game came from either taking one of the first half chances to make it 2-0 or not conceding a scrappy corner and seeing the game out.

I don't see a back 4 as the pancaea of performance, and certainly not Jack Grealish.

They lost to a better team and better players. A stupid premier League fad in penalty taking also cost them a chance in the shootout. As Billy Davies would say, it is what it is Natalie


Wonder what Billy gets up to in his video editing suite these days?
 
Southgate’s conservatism reaped what it had sown a little at the end. There was a lot of faith shown in the group of players that excelled in Russia, while a lot of young, dynamic players were found to be lacking miles in their legs when we could have done with them being introduced to provide impetus.

It was bizarre that a manager praised for his man management threw Sancho, a player who he had shown so little faith in up to that point, into the fray so late, where he basically went from a cold start to taking a penalty in the biggest game of his career so far. It was very different to Rashford because Sancho isn’t exactly somebody who takes a lot of penalties - Reus or Haaland are more likely penalty takers at Dortmund.

Given that we were allowed such a big squad, we didn’t make enough use of the players at our disposal. Bellingham could have brought more energy to the centre of the park where we needed it after an hour or so. Calvert-Lewin might have given the Italian defenders a different kind of player to deal with, and he has a decent penalty record.

But we spent the tournament relying on more or less the same small group of players. We made our subs late and utilised them poorly. We drained a bench that was brimming with talent and form of its confidence, and soon found their form was lacking. Meanwhile, Italy broke us down minute-by-minute as we slipped ever deeper into a Lamouchi style block, and I think by the end this group of players was mentally drained and only ever headed for defeat, in the same way as more or less the same team was eventually finished off by Croatia three years ago.

We had a good tournament and we come away with positives, but we’ve evolved very little from the team that clawed it’s way to respectability in Russia. We’re still defensive minded to a fault, our attacking players become isolated and drop deep, and we struggle to incorporate new and emerging talent into the side. We followed the same pattern last night as in the World Cup semi final, playing well for 30 minutes then barely affecting the game thereafter. That’s probably not surprising given that most of the starting lineup was the same.

We need to find a way of going toe to toe with tough opposition for more than a quarter of the match, and that will seemingly require an evolution in personnel. There’s a big disconnect between our defence and attack that I think is deeper than just who we pick up top. You won’t find many international sides with more depth than Sterling, Grealish, Sancho, Rashford and Saka. We’ve also got Hudson Odoi just outside the team, and Madueke as someone who might come through.

Its like you read my mind.
 
I think he's been a bit lucky with the way the draws have gone. If we could've fucked Southgate off for the night and put Venables in charge or anyone of the millions of football fans in England, we'd be European champions today.

Although i agree with that, venables didnt make a final. GS has done something important, setting us up for tournament football rather than a collection of players trying to impose their game. The big irony for me is that bobby manc clearly added a little english to the italians who did what we were doing to them. I agree with pope tho, GS got it wrong for me but no recriminations, he got a lot right and he will study this and adapt. Im fooking gutted about losing to those neck grabbing, stamping M-F but proud of the team, willing to give GS time to improve and hoping that social media platforms take some fooking responsibility and just delete racist shit immediately.
 
Did they sit back or did Italy press them back?
We dropped back we didn't even leave one player up as an out ball, just allowed them to camp in our half picking away till we cracked. We are better than that he should have made a tactical change rather than a like for like Henderson for Rice, I'd have maybe tried Bellingham and taken mount off give us more energy in the middle maybe could have helped push them back. The early goal was probably a curse rather than a blessing, if it was level till the second half we may have used out bench better and got at thier aging defence rather than just camping and hoping for penalties. Also the choices of penalty takers was suspect and those 2 lads who came on in the last minute should have been on earlier, their first touch of the ball was taking the pen.

We got to a final which is incredible considering we made a world Cup semi the last tournament, but this really was a golden chance for a trophy and we didn't do enough to try and win it in my eyes. Hopefully that pain of losing a final will make them stronger and more determined, luckily the next world Cup is only 12 months away and they can try to make amends but they are playing in insane heat so they will struggle more than some of the countries used to it.
 
He is the man to get the best out of these players.

He just isn't very good to translate that best into effective tactics when we're up against it.

He certainly didn't get the best out of the players last night and I don't think he got the best from them all tournament to be honest
 
He certainly didn't get the best out of the players last night and I don't think he got the best from them all tournament to be honest
Not sure how that works when we got to a final and only lost on penalties… Or are you saying our squad is the best in Europe by a distance?
 
My mate is fine now just a swollen jaw , looked quite bad when he got hit as fell straight on concrete , could have been lot worse .
All happened so quick mate .
Pointless reporting it , no witnesses , can't really remember what they look like , only they looked 20ish and hard dark clothing on.
Bit of luck they might do some bragging to the wrong person and i'll find out who it was.

I did report it online in the end .
Doubt anything will come of it but thought it should at least be logged in case it happens to someone else.