General Football thread | Page 35 | Vital Football

General Football thread

Another crap team rejoining the championship with the money to buy who they want. We just cant compete with things set up as they are. Hope they fuck their chance up thats all.
 
Will.NFFC said:
How do we know that? Hughton was an ex premier league manager linked with a lot of clubs - no way will he be cheap.
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There’s pretty much no chance of our owner paying the sort of wage Jokanovic was asking for a few years back.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
There's "not cheap" and then there's "£4m a season"
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Basha73 said:
There’s pretty much no chance of our owner paying the sort of wage Jokanovic was asking for a few years back.
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Thing is, we blow more on player wages who end up doing absolutely nothing - Taylor, Arter, Freeman, Knockaert this season alone will have cost far more, and its just part of football. Always find it odd that people would dismiss paying a manager who could take us to a place to promotion because of his high wages.

Not saying for a minute that what Jokanovic asked for was reasonable, but if he got us promoted, which ultimately individual players aren’t likely to do, why would you not just pay him what it takes when we’ll do it for a bunch of players?

His wages won’t cost a tenth of what it’s taken to employ and sack our last few failures - do we not appoint him because of his wages and we can’t afford it or on principle?

If it’s the latter, it’s frankly stupid and short sighted.
 
Will.NFFC said:
Thing is, we blow more on player wages who end up doing absolutely nothing - Taylor, Arter, Freeman, Knockaert this season alone will have cost far more, and its just part of football. Always find it odd that people would dismiss paying a manager who could take us to a place to promotion because of his high wages.

Not saying for a minute that what Jokanovic asked for was reasonable, but if he got us promoted, which ultimately individual players aren’t likely to do, why would you not just pay him what it takes when we’ll do it for a bunch of players?

His wages won’t cost a tenth of what it’s taken to employ and sack our last few failures - do we not appoint him because of his wages and we can’t afford it or on principle?

If it’s the latter, it’s frankly stupid and short sighted.
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Jokanovich has no more promotions than Hughton, and far fewer (zero) seasons surviving in the PL
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Jokanovich has no more promotions than Hughton, and far fewer (zero) seasons surviving in the PL
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My post wasn’t a dig at Hughton, who I thought was a coup. Just a response to the suggestion that we shouldn’t appoint an attacking, promotion winning manager because of high wages when we blow wages on toss most of the time.

Also your survival stat of zero is misleading. He left Watford the summer he got them up because he couldn’t agree a new deal and was sacked before the New Year at Fulham. Not saying it competes with Hughton at Brighton, but Jokanovic isn’t a failed PL manager.
 
Will.NFFC said:
My post wasn’t a fit at Hughton, who I thought was a coup. Just a response to the suggestion that we shouldn’t appoint an attacking, promotion winning manager because of high wages when we blow wages on toss most of the time.
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My reply was more questioning the relative value for money.

Jokanovich is extremely expensive and needs a lot of money to spend as well. There is a reason why has not been in this league; why Derby, Villa, Bournemouth, Watford (again) etc have not picked him up. Richer clubs than us can't afford him, and if our budget is going on the manager it cannot stretch as far to the tools he needs.

And I ask whether he is really that great. Attacking isn't hard when you have the pick of serie A or ringers like Sessegnon and Mitrovic
 
Pope John XXIII said:
My reply was more questioning the relative value for money.

Jokanovich is extremely expensive and needs a lot of money to spend as well. There is a reason why has not been in this league; why Derby, Villa, Bournemouth, Watford (again) etc have not picked him up. Richer clubs than us can't afford him, and if our budget is going on the manager it cannot stretch as far to the tools he needs.

And I ask whether he is really that great. Attacking isn't hard when you have the pick of serie A or ringers like Sessegnon and Mitrovic
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Grabban, Freeman, Knockaert, Lolley, Ameobi, Taylor, Krovinovic - if somebody said that was our squad before a ball was kicked this season, would you have said Hughton had much excuse for not being attacking?
 
Will.NFFC said:
Grabban, Freeman, Knockaert, Lolley, Ameobi, Taylor, Krovinovic - if somebody said that was our squad before a ball was kicked this season, would you have said Hughton had much excuse for not being attacking?
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Is it Hughton who hasn't been attacking or them?

They are all very attacking players; but they have all performed very, very poorly. It's not like they have been working super hard defensively instead.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Is it Hughton who hasn't been attacking or them?

They are all very attacking players; but they have all performed very, very poorly. It's not like they have been working super hard defensively instead.
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Well yes but that comes back to how much responsibility a manager takes. Whilst the players have been disgracefully bad, the reason managers are highly regarded and sought after is because they ensure that their players play to their ability.

It’s why Billy Davies is still to this day highly regarded by some on this forum - he often got a lot from some average players. Why can’t Hughton get more from a talented group?
 
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Will.NFFC said:
Well yes but that comes back to how much responsibility a manager takes. Whilst the players have been disgracefully bad, the reason managers are highly regarded and sought after is because they ensure that their players play to their ability.

It’s why Billy Davies is still to this day highly regarded by some on this forum - he often got a lot from some average players. Why can’t Hughton get more from a talented group?
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That is very much the question of the season, and failing to answer it in the subsequent one will clearly lose him his job.

But that wanders from the point, which was about the value of Jokanovic.

At £4m a season, how guarenteed are you to see a sudden change? Like I said, it's one thing when you have total ringers like Sessegnon in the squad; and they didn't even make automatic then.

Jokanovic was appointed December 2015 and they finished 20th that season.

The following season, with Sessegnon, they finished 6th. The season after that, with Mitrovic, they finished 3rd after a disastrous start and won the playoffs.

The history suggests that Jokanovic would have done no better under the same circumstances; in actual fact, with ludicrously good attacking potential at his disposal (at no cost, as it came from the academy and a loan) he failed twice to get automatic promotion and relied on the playoffs; which Fulham are clearly better at than forest are. If anything, Fulham underachieved.
His PL campaign was a disaster.

He won't have that kind of lucky find at Forest; Mighten is no Sessegnon. So what will we likely get for our £4m?
 
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