Stoke v Forest, pushing it uphill. | Page 17 | Vital Football

Stoke v Forest, pushing it uphill.

finbar70 said:
A good post. The only slight difference I have is with wholesale changes, and only because it’s now Jan and I would expect any decent club to be proactive

I do want wholesale changes, but 80-85% going out the door. I would recall Johnson and Carvalho because they have to be better options than Cafu, freeman and Guerrero in that 10 position
I wouldn’t sign Knocks on perm until the summer but I would try and extend his loan tomorrow so we know where we stand. If that’s a no from Fulham then get grosciki on a 6 month deal.

I would also try and terminate Cafu and freeman’s loan in order to bring back Johnson and carvalho

we have options to sell players also. Ioannu, Guerrero and grabban and hopefully Figs.

I would pay up darikwa, Hefe and Clough if we cannot loan them out by Jan 31.

our recruitment would then focus on 2 strikers if we can accomplish the above. I would love a dynamic centre midfielder but I’m at a loss on that one until the summer

in the summer I would sell Samba, Bachirou, and would not renew Christie

I feel we are stuck with Jenkinson, Blackett, Arter and Colback. With a better manager we should be able to get a song out of Arter and Colback (Hello Eddie Howe)

if we can sell Yates I would do it, and not renew Sow or Ameobi

All the above is not unreasonable to happen between now and August 1st.

That would leave a potential decision on knockhaert and look to find a great RB (Swansea lad) a winger, and a couple of balanced, younger midfielders

the above shifts out far more than I’m suggesting bringing in. It’s only my opinion and we all want the best and have a different opinion. But if I had £1 billion I’d buy Forest tomorrow and still be on this forum 😂😂
Click to expand...

I think you've been playing too much Football Manager chap
 
I don't have to see the games to get the picture, there's something wrong at the club and we're all guessing at the cause, and I'm referring in the main to events on the pitch.
It's obvious that we have no leader amongst the players, nobody to kick arse or put an arm round a shoulder when required. But these players are supposed to be seasoned professionals so they shouldn't be playing this badly as a team and none of us seems to know the cause. We're starting to get out of the rut that we've been in for too long now, we have not lost in the last 4 games and managed to score 4 goals with 2 against and the reports that I read all say that we improved well in the second half in the last match. Can we maintain that and also start to score, I doubt it and have no idea why.
It's easy to blame the coach but I don't believe he's the culprit even though his ideas on substitutes don't suit most of us. This last few weeks he hasn't had the players to choose from and we don't see them training either.
So what's the problem and how do we fix it. It has to be sorted pretty quickly otherwise we're sunk.

I'm well and truly used to the ups and downs of football but am starting to worry a bit about some of our posters on Vital.
 
whatters said:
WHY Is GRABBAN CAPTAIN ???? Some fooker must know
Click to expand...

I don't know either but it's a mistake to make a striker Captain, It should always be a defensive player who can see how the game is going and shout about as required.
We don't seem to have that sort of player at the moment. He also needs to be a leader.
 
Don't think Grabban is putting in the effort he's playing safe perhaps he doesn't want to risk injury ahead of a move, Taylor may not be as polished but he made more happen in the short time he was on. Grabban is also no Captain he doesn't even talk Worral should have kept it.
 
mr ron said:
Don't think Grabban is putting in the effort he's playing safe perhaps he doesn't want to risk injury ahead of a move, Taylor may not be as polished but he made more happen in the short time he was on. Grabban is also no Captain he doesn't even talk Worral should have kept it.
Click to expand...
Agree he doesn't come across as captain material.Setting an example is not leaving a simple header at the front post for example.Mckenna or Worrall for me.
 
Last edited:
Calvin Plummer said:
No offence but this is just nonsense, firstly you're making up the dark forces narrative. Nobody else is suggesting there are beyond you and Billy.

I'm also shocked that you think what happens off the pitch has 0 impact on it. The players aren't automatons and you've worked in a senior enough capacity to know how important culture is.

I'll reiterate, I largely agree with your analysis on the pitch, off it you're nuts!
Click to expand...

I seem to recall you was the one who originally mentioned "Dark Forces" off the pitch.

Goings on off the Pitch can be an influence, things like failing to pay the players wages on time can have a huge impact, but there is absolutely no evidence that anything like that is happening.

Danny Taylor has come out in defence of the way that Vrentzas has treated Randall and Owens, but do you honestly think that has been the root cause of our demise?

In fact the other Taylor appears to have had unfettered access to the players, who, in the main, have had very little to say about any backroom goings on.

Worrall made a cryptic remark about not being friends, other than that there has been plenty of opportunity for other players to have made anonymous quotes to Journalists about any bad atmosphere behind the scenes but have refrained from doing so.

Why?

I am all in favour of building a culture, a Forest way of doing things, but a, it does not happen over night, and b, there are severe limitations on how that can and will manifest itself at first team level.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
I'll ask again how have we suddenly become shit? Aside from Cash we've lost nobody of import, you claim the recruitment has been good (again) and yet we've completely gone backwards. Confidence is a weak argument when we can field virtually a new team...
Click to expand...

Well that's the million dollar question, and we can only go on assumptions at the moment.

To start with there was a hangover from last season - we got within touching distance of the play offs and then the wheels came off.

Why?

To achieve anything you need a winning mentality, a mentality we just did not have.

When you go through the last day trauma some of those players went through, it must shatter self belief; once that goes it takes some getting back.

We had very little experience or leadership in the side which imploded; we attempted to rectify that in the transfer market but players like Colback, who has not replicated his previous Club form, and Arter, who has been absolutely shocking, and Freeman, who has been injured, have not provided that leadership.

McKenna, who looks like serious leadership material, has also been injured.

Which brings us on to injuries; we have suffered an unprecedented run of injuries, even by our standards, all to key players.

Worrall, McKenna, Grabban and Freeman would be a huge loss for any side.

We bring in a lot of players most of whom have not clicked; there was a very good interview with Joe Lolley in the Athletic on why he thinks that has been the case.

And then there is confidence; there is confidence as a group and confidence relating to the individual.

You can down play confidence all you like but it is a huge contributory factor; instinctive actions give way to second thoughts, the natural becomes mechanical and its nothing that can be put right with the flick of a switch.

There are signs that the players are starting to listen to the managers instructions though, particularly in the second half last night.

If that continues over the next few games we could be in business; alternatively it could be another flase dawn.
 
mao tse tung said:
I seem to recall you was the one who originally mentioned "Dark Forces" off the pitch.

Goings on off the Pitch can be an influence, things like failing to pay the players wages on time can have a huge impact, but there is absolutely no evidence that anything like that is happening.

Danny Taylor has come out in defence of the way that Vrentzas has treated Randall and Owens, but do you honestly think that has been the root cause of our demise?

In fact the other Taylor appears to have had unfettered access to the players, who, in the main, have had very little to say about any backroom goings on.

Worrall made a cryptic remark about not being friends, other than that there has been plenty of opportunity for other players to have made anonymous quotes to Journalists about any bad atmosphere behind the scenes but have refrained from doing so.

Why?

I am all in favour of building a culture, a Forest way of doing things, but a, it does not happen over night, and b, there are severe limitations on how that can and will manifest itself at first team level.
Click to expand...

Dark Forces is a Billy Davies reference...

I'm just arguing that all 3 aspects of the club are interconnected, it is impossible for one part not to impact the other 2.
 
mao tse tung said:
Well that's the million dollar question, and we can only go on assumptions at the moment.

To start with there was a hangover from last season - we got within touching distance of the play offs and then the wheels came off.

Why?

To achieve anything you need a winning mentality, a mentality we just did not have.

When you go through the last day trauma some of those players went through, it must shatter self belief; once that goes it takes some getting back.

We had very little experience or leadership in the side which imploded; we attempted to rectify that in the transfer market but players like Colback, who has not replicated his previous Club form, and Arter, who has been absolutely shocking, and Freeman, who has been injured, have not provided that leadership.

McKenna, who looks like serious leadership material, has also been injured.

Which brings us on to injuries; we have suffered an unprecedented run of injuries, even by our standards, all to key players.

Worrall, McKenna, Grabban and Freeman would be a huge loss for any side.

We bring in a lot of players most of whom have not clicked; there was a very good interview with Joe Lolley in the Athletic on why he thinks that has been the case.

And then there is confidence; there is confidence as a group and confidence relating to the individual.

You can down play confidence all you like but it is a huge contributory factor; instinctive actions give way to second thoughts, the natural becomes mechanical and its nothing that can be put right with the flick of a switch.

There are signs that the players are starting to listen to the managers instructions though, particularly in the second half last night.

If that continues over the next few games we could be in business; alternatively it could be another flase dawn.
Click to expand...

Again agree with nearly everything, it's just your refusal to acknowledge that organisations are inherently complex and interconnected that bugs me. It's never simply down to the players, or coaching staff or hierarchy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.