Xmas lockdown or not? n/g | Page 5 | Vital Football

Xmas lockdown or not? n/g

Let's be honest, the government has made mistakes and the guidance has been unclear, but the main reason for the increasing spread of the virus is stupid and selfish people - this was epitomised recently from some saddo no-life meatheads, I know on social media, who spend half of their life in the gym on a vanity project (often rather than spending time with their families) having a hissy fit because their gym was shut for a couple of weeks. Because of their pathetic hissy fit, it looks like gyms, which are prime environments for spreading Covid, will remain open in December, even in the highest affected and spreading Covid areas. It also hasn't been helped by those using the virus to "play politics" and trying to make a name for themselves - there are many examples, but the worst for me is chip-on-the-shoulder northern windbag, Burnham. It will be interesting to see how the people of Kent and our leaders react, if we're put in to Tier 3 today. I expect and hope that we'll all act in a more grown-up and less self-centred way than Burnham and co.

When this all kicked off, everyone seemed to be singing from the same hymn sheet and doing all they can to stop the spread and act sensibly. However, since the summer, there seems to be a culture of defiance to Covid restrictions, with people ignoring rules that are in place for good reason or finding every possible way to get around them. I must say, the government (and politicians generally) not calling this out. We have heard too often from our leaders, whether Boris, Hancock, Sturgeon or Starmer, how well people have done and how much they've suffered in adhering to Covid rules and their patience is appreciated - that's bollocks, a huge amount of people have acted like idiots and should have been called out by all of our leaders (and I know that wouldn't make them popular with those idiots, which I guess is why they didn't do it, but a lot of us would have been applauding them). Another factor that hasn't been helped is the increasing Covid denial campaign by some in the in the MSM - the best example of this is a lot of right-wing pundits, who, to be honest, usually couldn't give two hoots about anyone, all of a sudden, showing heartfelt concern for mental health of people (well, those affected by the lockdown anyway; they have almost disdain for those affected by the virus itself, whether it be those killed or their families - including their mental health). A disgusting example of disingenuousness, when all they care about really is being able to get on with their lives and going back to normal and are using others' problems to fuel that agenda.

I don't agree with the government's policy over Christmas. I would have kept restrictions harsh until January, for one last push until the vaccine comes. However, I do understand why they've done it. Further to what I said above, they know there would be a huge amount of people who would ignore it and legitimising it to 5 days, maybe means those people can get their fill for those five days and not the whole two weeks of the Christmas period. No one likes Christmas more than me. It'll grate with some as it seems very trendy to go around saying "I hate Christmas", but we have had our Christmas decs up almost two weeks now - more than anything for my son (he's an only son), who's missing out, at the moment for this short period, from his usual fun at the weekend like playing football, watching the Gills (is that fun?) and seeing his mates. We always have a big family Christmas Day with my family (It'll be the first Christmas in over four decades I haven't spent with my family) and Boxing Day with my wife's family - both a dozen plus people - as well as lots of other dos with mates. We were also supposed to be going away in early December and between Christmas and New Year, but regardless of tiers or lockdowns, we had already decided to pull the lot in the interests of commonsense and health, especially the parents and in-laws in their 70s.
 
SteveTreacle said:
Let's be honest, the government has made mistakes and the guidance has been unclear, but the main reason for the increasing spread of the virus is stupid and selfish people - this was epitomised recently from some saddo no-life meatheads, I know on social media, who spend half of their life in the gym on a vanity project (often rather than spending time with their families) having a hissy fit because their gym was shut for a couple of weeks. Because of their pathetic hissy fit, it looks like gyms, which are prime environments for spreading Covid, will remain open in December, even in the highest affected and spreading Covid areas. It also hasn't been helped by those using the virus to "play politics" and trying to make a name for themselves - there are many examples, but the worst for me is chip-on-the-shoulder northern windbag, Burnham. It will be interesting to see how the people of Kent and our leaders react, if we're put in to Tier 3 today. I expect and hope that we'll all act in a more grown-up and less self-centred way than Burnham and co.

When this all kicked off, everyone seemed to be singing from the same hymn sheet and doing all they can to stop the spread and act sensibly. However, since the summer, there seems to be a culture of defiance to Covid restrictions, with people ignoring rules that are in place for good reason or finding every possible way to get around them. I must say, the government (and politicians generally) not calling this out. We have heard too often from our leaders, whether Boris, Hancock, Sturgeon or Starmer, how well people have done and how much they've suffered in adhering to Covid rules and their patience is appreciated - that's bollocks, a huge amount of people have acted like idiots and should have been called out by all of our leaders (and I know that wouldn't make them popular with those idiots, which I guess is why they didn't do it, but a lot of us would have been applauding them). Another factor that hasn't been helped is the increasing Covid denial campaign by some in the in the MSM - the best example of this is a lot of right-wing pundits, who, to be honest, usually couldn't give two hoots about anyone, all of a sudden, showing heartfelt concern for mental health of people (well, those affected by the lockdown anyway; they have almost disdain for those affected by the virus itself, whether it be those killed or their families - including their mental health). A disgusting example of disingenuousness, when all they care about really is being able to get on with their lives and going back to normal and are using others' problems to fuel that agenda.

I don't agree with the government's policy over Christmas. I would have kept restrictions harsh until January, for one last push until the vaccine comes. However, I do understand why they've done it. Further to what I said above, they know there would be a huge amount of people who would ignore it and legitimising it to 5 days, maybe means those people can get their fill for those five days and not the whole two weeks of the Christmas period. No one likes Christmas more than me. It'll grate with some as it seems very trendy to go around saying "I hate Christmas", but we have had our Christmas decs up almost two weeks now - more than anything for my son (he's an only son), who's missing out, at the moment for this short period, from his usual fun at the weekend like playing football, watching the Gills (is that fun?) and seeing his mates. We always have a big family Christmas Day with my family (It'll be the first Christmas in over four decades I haven't spent with my family) and Boxing Day with my wife's family - both a dozen plus people - as well as lots of other dos with mates. We were also supposed to be going away in early December and between Christmas and New Year, but regardless of tiers or lockdowns, we had already decided to pull the lot in the interests of commonsense and health, especially the parents and in-laws in their 70s.
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Some good points. What I want to know is, where are the thousands of people who flocked to Southend beach in the summer for their "mental elf"? They seem to be recovered now that its a bit chilly.
 
You make some valid points Steve but
SteveTreacle said:
Let's be honest, the government has made mistakes and the guidance has been unclear, but the main reason for the increasing spread of the virus is stupid and selfish people - this was epitomised recently from some saddo no-life meatheads, I know on social media, who spend half of their life in the gym on a vanity project (often rather than spending time with their families) having a hissy fit because their gym was shut for a couple of weeks. Because of their pathetic hissy fit, it looks like gyms, which are prime environments for spreading Covid, will remain open in December, even in the highest affected and spreading Covid areas. It also hasn't been helped by those using the virus to "play politics" and trying to make a name for themselves - there are many examples, but the worst for me is chip-on-the-shoulder northern windbag, Burnham. It will be interesting to see how the people of Kent and our leaders react, if we're put in to Tier 3 today. I expect and hope that we'll all act in a more grown-up and less self-centred way than Burnham and co.

When this all kicked off, everyone seemed to be singing from the same hymn sheet and doing all they can to stop the spread and act sensibly. However, since the summer, there seems to be a culture of defiance to Covid restrictions, with people ignoring rules that are in place for good reason or finding every possible way to get around them. I must say, the government (and politicians generally) not calling this out. We have heard too often from our leaders, whether Boris, Hancock, Sturgeon or Starmer, how well people have done and how much they've suffered in adhering to Covid rules and their patience is appreciated - that's bollocks, a huge amount of people have acted like idiots and should have been called out by all of our leaders (and I know that wouldn't make them popular with those idiots, which I guess is why they didn't do it, but a lot of us would have been applauding them). Another factor that hasn't been helped is the increasing Covid denial campaign by some in the in the MSM - the best example of this is a lot of right-wing pundits, who, to be honest, usually couldn't give two hoots about anyone, all of a sudden, showing heartfelt concern for mental health of people (well, those affected by the lockdown anyway; they have almost disdain for those affected by the virus itself, whether it be those killed or their families - including their mental health). A disgusting example of disingenuousness, when all they care about really is being able to get on with their lives and going back to normal and are using others' problems to fuel that agenda.

I don't agree with the government's policy over Christmas. I would have kept restrictions harsh until January, for one last push until the vaccine comes. However, I do understand why they've done it. Further to what I said above, they know there would be a huge amount of people who would ignore it and legitimising it to 5 days, maybe means those people can get their fill for those five days and not the whole two weeks of the Christmas period. No one likes Christmas more than me. It'll grate with some as it seems very trendy to go around saying "I hate Christmas", but we have had our Christmas decs up almost two weeks now - more than anything for my son (he's an only son), who's missing out, at the moment for this short period, from his usual fun at the weekend like playing football, watching the Gills (is that fun?) and seeing his mates. We always have a big family Christmas Day with my family (It'll be the first Christmas in over four decades I haven't spent with my family) and Boxing Day with my wife's family - both a dozen plus people - as well as lots of other dos with mates. We were also supposed to be going away in early December and between Christmas and New Year, but regardless of tiers or lockdowns, we had already decided to pull the lot in the interests of commonsense and health, especially the parents and in-laws in their 70s.
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You make some valid points Steve but also some poor ones. I won't bore on but some on here were only recently pointing to the supposed poor behaviour of Northerners to explain high covid rates. We all like to imagine ourselves worthy and others wanting in moral fibre. What really stands out is that the big calls are the ones that make big differences, like when to lockdown/restrict. There is a good argument that Johnson made two late calls, which no amount of drunken carousing could match in their deadly effects.

We live in a world where lunatic nonsense often occupies equal space with sboer reality but the government and responsible media outlets could and should give consistent messaging on how to avoid infection and the realistic way ahead. Far too often Johnson starts withn a serious face and ends waving his hands about, spluttering about beer and buns. Many people have vague, peripheral vision of politicians and their doings so clarity, manner and composure matter.
 
jogills said:
You make some valid points Steve but
You make some valid points Steve but also some poor ones. I won't bore on but some on here were only recently pointing to the supposed poor behaviour of Northerners to explain high covid rates. We all like to imagine ourselves worthy and others wanting in moral fibre. What really stands out is that the big calls are the ones that make big differences, like when to lockdown/restrict. There is a good argument that Johnson made two late calls, which no amount of drunken carousing could match in their deadly effects.
.
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My point here, Jo, was more about the behaviour of Burnham rather than northerners in general. My view is that people generally across the have behaved badly, not just northerners, which is one of the biggest reasons for the spread across the whole country. My comment about Burnham was more his attempt to play politics and make it a north v south / Labour v Tories / "we won't be dictated to by London" type scenario - he was willing to delay lockdown just so he could tub thump and grand stand for a week, presumably so he could say "I won" to his local businesses and the local population and ensure his re-election. As I say, it'll be interesting to see the reaction in Kent, if we do get put in to the highest Tier this time around. I may be wrong, but I'd be surprised if any of our local politicians or leaders have such a chip-on-the-shoulder/ victim complex as Burnham.
 
I'm still scratching my head trying to work out how, having a Cornish Pastie with my pint of Doombar, is better protection against Covid than just having the pint?
 
Absurd attack on Burnham who is doing his job for his local area, a job he was elected to do. Manchester denied the support needed for being in Tier 3. Lo and behold, as soon as London and the south has to do the same then Furlough is extended. "Levelling up" my arse.

It seems that any criticism of government decisions is "playing politics". Perhaps we should just enthusiastically agree with everything they do.

My local MP Bob Neil was campaigning for Bromley to be in a lower tier as our infection rate was below average for London. Fair enough. However, I now see that the rate is rocketing and we are one of the few London boroughs where it is still increasing. I wonder if he will be happy for higher restrictions in Bromley than in the lower infection rate boroughs after today's announcement. By his logic, it should be stricter than for others.
 
My gripe with Burnham was that he kept quiet when there were raves, parties and mass gatherings, many of which resulted in dozens of police officers sustaining injury. But when the resulting high infection rate meant a higher tier for his city, he got all holier than thou about his residents.
Maybe, if he wanted to be a true leader, he could have asked his flock to show some restraint in the first place. How many of his people who now find themselves unemployed were involved in the mass gatherings?
Whilst I'm having a moan about public behaviour, I find it quite ironic that many of the thousands who flocked to beaches and parks during the summer, clearly flouting social distancing rules, were staff on furlough or "working from home" whilst key workers were still getting on packed trains to work to help covid sufferers and clear up this mess.

As an aside, looks like Kent are a similar row about the tier structure.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...h-not-county-but-scientists-disagree-12142201
 
I’m not disagreeing with the calls that Andy Burnham should’ve been more proactive in preventing the harshness of this second spike, but you’ve got to understand his fears since.

There are parts of the Midlands and the North which have been in lockdown way before the national lockdown, and have been living with no light at the end of the tunnel - no comment from the Govt as to when they’ll be released.

Why shouldn’t he demand a rescue package for his civizens if there’s to be no indication or working shown of when they’ll be released?

It’s weird how people will wilfully ignore all expert analysis and instead everything they believe in the Sun or Facebook, as long as it suits their prejudices. Grr chavs are bad.
 
Nobby_66 said:
As an aside, looks like Kent are a similar row about the tier structure.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...h-not-county-but-scientists-disagree-12142201
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A district-by-district approach is what they've used here in Madrid (despite the reservations of the central government). Restrictions were based on your "basic health zone", which as far as I can make out is which doctor's surgery you're covered by. They imposed tougher restrictions on any health zone where there were more than 500 cases per 100,000 people over the last 14 days (and there were some areas which were above 1000 cases per 100,000 people). There were parts of Madrid where one street would be in lockdown, while the next street along wouldn't, you could check on a website to see whether your street was affected.

If the figures are to be believed, it seems to be working very well. At the end of September, the number of cases per 100,000 people for Madrid as a whole was at 785, it's currently around 285. Madrid has gone from being the worst-affected region in Spain and one of the worst in Europe, to having the best figures in Spain outside of the Canary and Balearic Islands.
 
madrid_gill said:
A district-by-district approach is what they've used here in Madrid (despite the reservations of the central government). Restrictions were based on your "basic health zone", which as far as I can make out is which doctor's surgery you're covered by. They imposed tougher restrictions on any health zone where there were more than 500 cases per 100,000 people over the last 14 days (and there were some areas which were above 1000 cases per 100,000 people). There were parts of Madrid where one street would be in lockdown, while the next street along wouldn't, you could check on a website to see whether your street was affected.

If the figures are to be believed, it seems to be working very well. At the end of September, the number of cases per 100,000 people for Madrid as a whole was at 785, it's currently around 285. Madrid has gone from being the worst-affected region in Spain and one of the worst in Europe, to having the best figures in Spain outside of the Canary and Balearic Islands.
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There’s such a stark difference in the number of cases between North and South Kent that it’s got to be considered. Looking deeper down I don’t actually think a high amount of people regularly travel between North and South Kent - the roads and train lines don’t help too much with that.
 
The WHOLE of Kent in Tier 3, the WHOLE of London in Tier 2. Those areas like Manchester who were in lockdown weeks before the national lockdown have been forgotten again.
 
SteveTreacle said:
My point here, Jo, was more about the behaviour of Burnham rather than northerners in general. My view is that people generally across the have behaved badly, not just northerners, which is one of the biggest reasons for the spread across the whole country. My comment about Burnham was more his attempt to play politics and make it a north v south / Labour v Tories / "we won't be dictated to by London" type scenario - he was willing to delay lockdown just so he could tub thump and grand stand for a week, presumably so he could say "I won" to his local businesses and the local population and ensure his re-election. As I say, it'll be interesting to see the reaction in Kent, if we do get put in to the highest Tier this time around. I may be wrong, but I'd be surprised if any of our local politicians or leaders have such a chip-on-the-shoulder/ victim complex as Burnham.
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I wasn't pointing the finger at you over the Northerners thing Steve but a few weeks ago several on here were suggesting just that. Looks like Kent is in the North now!

We'll have to disagree about Burnham. Probably our different starting points. I thought Johnson started on Liverpool and then switched to Manchester for a bit of politicking. I saw it as Manchester being singled out for harsher treatment to showboat to parliamentary hardcore. It's of limited importance because local mayors don't have enough power normally let alone during a crisis. I'd apply that to the West Midlands tory mayor Andy Street also, who has complained of having his hands tied.
 
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