Sounds a bit Ominous

[moonay]

Here we go again - down the rabbit hole...

First, it's legal not to pay. But you are taking a subjective approach. The admin cannot go through a list and select those he likes etc. At the end of the process, he divides the proceeds of sale of assets equally. That's is the law in the UK

The 25p in the pound is manadtory as authoritatively ordered as per the EFL rules; it's obligatory; compulsory to avoid the penalty cited by the EFL

You're violently agreeing with me re the EFL..... We get the points deducted if we don't pay ......so not obligatory or mandatory.

 

[jocklatic]

Guys, Gals, Posters & fellow Ticsmon/women....can we ALL take a moment & gather our thots / posts as it's going down the road of a few people falling out big time & a few unnecessary digs......WE are in the SHIT & need to come together rather than fall out, play the blame game or join the hindsight brigade.....please guys take time to read your post/s & think 'should I really post this'.....UTFT

 

[Made in Wigan]

You're violently agreeing with me re the EFL..... We get the points deducted if we don't pay ......so not obligatory or mandatory.

If a 15 point deduction means that **** Choi doesn’t get a penny and we survive then I’ll be dancing in the street, league 2 or not. In fact i’ll take that over no penalty and paying the **** 25p in the pound.

 

[pies'r'us]

Thanks Pies. I suppose the question was:
- how do you term IEC a small loss making company, when the value of it's shares - or rather the "value regained" is how I think you put it - is circa £275m.? ......... unless that's deemed small. Fair enough if that's so.

For context though, your "End of the Pier" report said that the "the present stock market capitalisation (value) of IEC plc is £36.48 million".

If "market capitalisation value" is the number of shares multiplied by the price, then how does that equate to the circa £275m?

Back down the rabbit hole..

Your original very vague question was 'I'm just trying to understand if IEC (and at the same time, Choi) do have money, or don't.' Which I think I answered but surprise, surprise, now it's mutating...

One of my investments is Rio Tinto Market cap £59.249 BILLION. so IEC is small or even minute company, relatively speaking.

Today Rio was trading at £47.22 per share. Tother week IEC was 2p get mi drift.

All figures I provide are gleaned from stock markets.

Not all shares in a company are in 'circulation' and some have been purchased at an option price.

Thats it over and out. No more time to waste. Hope I helped you,

 

[moonay]

If a 15 point deduction means that **** Choi doesn’t get a penny and we survive then I’ll be dancing in the street, league 2 or not. In fact i’ll take that over no penalty and paying the **** 25p in the pound.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

You need to take a good look at yourself.. it was a fucking joke. I have friends who have read it and Bickymon didn't take exception - just you.
Todays top tip; PLEASE STOP READING MY STUFF. if it upsets you. As soon as you see the big P - swerve it.

You're not exactly known for being easy going and humorous but are known for being quite prickerly with other posters. I was thinking sounded more of the same and a sarcastic and condescending comment but if it wasn't your intention then I apologise.

'Take a good look at yourself' I'm not the one who says people need a brain transplant, that insinuates anyone who doesnt agree with my interpretation of things is in denial or thick, called most of the board bone idle etc - so maybe have a look in a mirror.

I don't want to avoid reading your analysis it's good and insightful I just wish you'd not spoil it like you often do by being needlessly rude to other posters. If you weren't intending to be rude in this instance then fair play but you have a track record.

 

[Th10]

Is 15 points n league 1 worth £6million or so? No, fuck the previous owners and just take the deduction if we have to. I don’t think the drop in revenue from league 1 to league 2 would be that much and it isn’t worth paying that money out just to avoid the deduction. Next season is going to be a struggle anyway. The club needs rebuilding from top to bottom and that takes time. The club surviving is the main priority. I’m sure prospective new owners don’t want to be forking out money to previous owners and would rather invest it in the future of the club.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Is 15 points n league 1 worth £6million or so? No, fuck the previous owners and just take the deduction if we have to. I don’t think the drop in revenue from league 1 to league 2 would be that much and it isn’t worth paying that money out just to avoid the deduction. Next season is going to be a struggle anyway. The club needs rebuilding from top to bottom and that takes time. The club surviving is the main priority. I’m sure prospective new owners don’t want to be forking out money to previous owners and would rather invest it in the future of the club.

The issue is the admins job is to get the most money possible and if we are willing to take the 15 points any potential owners would still need to make an acceptable offer for the club that exceeds the value of it being sold off via liquidation. The old owners will get money out of us one way or another unfortunately just a case of how much and if it's via a new owner or liquidation.

 

[Danny_de_Zeeuw16]

Danny FFS, it's not his fault. He said what would happen almost verbatim to what is actually happening right now but was in general ignored....the ******* in China is the real bastard....he has run rings round the lot of um, starting with DW, the EFL, Admin dickheads, our directors and lastly us, Joe Fucking Public.

No wonder these bidders disappear when they see the scale of this bullshit.

I bet hes bang on. I dont dispute his work. But being a nob and stuck up and a shitbag generally is out of order. Gotta have a level of respect to those you agree with and disagree with. All ive seen him do is insult ppl and put em down. So I think its unnecessary. Win the argument dont be a tit

 

[Danny_de_Zeeuw16]

I'm afraid if anyone crosses my 'boundary'. Confrontation doesn't and has never worried me.

You make yourself sound very silly referring to me as using 'big words'.

The thing which is very worrying is that after I spent a lot of my time trying to provide insight and help, as I did with Bickymon your primary action come back at me with what seems a petulant adolescent comment. Whatever, I say to others is nothing to do with you. Why are you bothered? Don't tell me. Your part of the PC 'waiting to be offended brigade'. Best advice; swerve my posts.

Im not disagreeing with your research as you call it. Just your general put downs of folk. Im far from pc I just dont like people who throw their weight around in any context. You talk about being adolescent. You had a bitch fit at moonay for questioning your stance and not understanding something and now this time just being a condescending fecker to him and now me. All im saying is pipe down dont care how clever you think you are, your just out of order and you wouldn't act the way you do on here in person as youd be lit up like a Christmas tree

 

[Wlatic]

My above quote is correct and you can go and check iEC's accounts available through the companys web site.
Im not sure of your question. But I'll give it a shot.

Obviously I don't know what anyone has in their bank accounts. So, here's me; I own shares in several quoted company's. Due to pandemic they're all at price much lower than i paid so I'm staring at a 'paper' loss presently. But as a cautious person (financially) I have some money for a rainy day. I imagine Choi and the other investors are similar

Explaination; shares are bought with money that is not realised again until they are sold at the prevailing quoted market value. Owners of IEC stock are sitting on massive loss of value presently. However, they will only realise a 'physical' loss if they sell now.

IEC had circa £38 million but it will be less now due to lockdown in Manilla. But it's not a lot relatively speaking. Thinking about premises, overheads, staff circa 4/500 etc. However, IEC own outright the hotel complex and if need be, could probably easily raise finace upon it.

I have no idea how much dosh Choi has in his personal accounts - naturally! But have no illusions; people like Choi do not become millionaires by being easy going about flittering away money or share value. Just to remind what I've related before.. Choi is a predator that's how he achieved his wealth. Hope this helps

Exactly. In the world of business this is not strange. Wihtou the loan someone would take us over tomorrow with the assets for 100k + debts + £1

 

[N"Zogbia's fan club]

Yes, I'm sticking up for you. It was a good post by Pies otherwise.

This is so petty considering the deep trouble our club is in right now. Let's stick together not fight petty squabbles.

 

[Danny_de_Zeeuw16]

If a 15 point deduction means that **** Choi doesn’t get a penny and we survive then I’ll be dancing in the street, league 2 or not. In fact i’ll take that over no penalty and paying the **** 25p in the pound.

Me too just a thought though, obviously if we refuse to pay the 25p in the pound next year we get a sanction of a 15 pt penalty. But the next season if its still not paid, does it apply then and every year after until we pay it???

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Me too just a thought though, obviously if we refuse to pay the 25p in the pound next year we get a sanction of a 15 pt penalty. But the next season if its still not paid, does it apply then and every year after until we pay it???

No I don't think that is the case it's a one time punishment but if you refuse to pay 25p in the pound then you open up the door to potential liquidation. So it's not just take the 15 point hit you have to worry about.

 

[Danny_de_Zeeuw16]

No I don't think that is the case it's a one time punishment but if you refuse to pay 25p in the pound then you open up the door to potential liquidation. So it's not just take the 15 point hit you have to worry about.

In what way do you open yourself up?
If we owe choi a fortune then id take the hit and try find a way to pay every other debt off. Then take a penalty. Whats ge gonna do, sue us??

 

[Arthur_Itis]

In what way do you open yourself up?
If we owe choi a fortune then id take the hit and try find a way to pay every other debt off. Then take a penalty. Whats ge gonna do, sue us??

Sue us ? Quite possibly Yes, Danny, could be wrong but pretty sure what you are suggesting (to pay some creditors but not others) is illegal.

 

[bickymon]

In what way do you open yourself up?
If we owe choi a fortune then id take the hit and try find a way to pay every other debt off. Then take a penalty. Whats ge gonna do, sue us??

I though choi sold us to the other mon so how can we owe choi and if other mon got a loan to buy us from choi then im sure it should be other mon not club that owes choi the loan
Or am i wrong

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

In what way do you open yourself up?
If we owe choi a fortune then id take the hit and try find a way to pay every other debt off. Then take a penalty. Whats ge gonna do, sue us??

The admins job is to sell the club and assets for the maximum amount even if they can't get 25p in the pound. If the value of breaking up and selling all assets individually is higher than any bid on the table they would do that.

If it came to that and the club is left with no assets, no players, no stadium, no training ground, a 15 point penalty likely relegating us to L2, transfer ban and no income due covid we are a even more unappealing prospect to bidders and liquidation could become more of a possibility.

I certainly don't want to pay 25p in the pound to our former owners but one way or another they will likely get millions out of the sale of assets if we survive or go bust.

Not paying 25p in the pound isn't a guarantee of liquidation but it would move us a step closer to it.

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

In what way do you open yourself up?
If we owe choi a fortune then id take the hit and try find a way to pay every other debt off. Then take a penalty. Whats ge gonna do, sue us??

Its a simple problem Danny, Pies has made the point that we cant just walk away from the debt. The administrators have an obligation to realise the best value for the assets, if that means they cannot sell them as a whole they will break the group up. The ground, training grounds, chippy and players will be sold of separately meaning we could be groundless and with no training facilities or players.

The EFL would have no alternative than to expel us and we go out of business.

On a number of occasions I have expressed my opinion that there is disputed evidence that the loan hadn't been registered with the club, I was wrong, the fact that it has been included within the list of creditors issued to shareholders is proof that it exists.

We are now showing debts of approx £45 million. Allegedly £10.7 to another group company which will possibly be written off, however that still leaves us deep in the mire.

There is no doubt in my mind that this is the reason no buyers are committing.

As far as the "sod them and take the 15 point hit" goes, that will be dependant on what the admins assess the asset value of the club to be. They are legally bound to sell the club for as near to that figure as possible and if the bidders are well short of that figure then a liquidation and break up is more then ever the likely outcome. Whatever they raise will pay off secured creditor first and foremost and whatever is left will be apportioned between the unsecured creditors as a distribution and a percentage of what they are owed. The fact that NLF are quoted in the document as creditors means if there is a distribution they will get paid. Nothing we, the Admins or anyone else can do about it.

As far as getting the loan annulled, dream on , we have tried the appeals route before and got stung, Pies is right, Choi is a devious t**t and will have this tied and bound.

Once again my apologies to Pies'r'Us for doubting his judgement.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Its a simple problem Danny, Pies has made the point that we cant just walk away from the debt. The administrators have an obligation to realise the best value for the assets, if that means they cannot sell them as a whole they will break the group up. The ground, training grounds, chippy and players will be sold of separately meaning we could be groundless and with no training facilities or players.

The EFL would have no alternative than to expel us and we go out of business.

On a number of occasions I have expressed my opinion that there is disputed evidence that the loan hadn't been registered with the club, I was wrong, the fact that it has been included within the list of creditors issued to shareholders is proof that it exists.

We are now showing debts of approx £45 million. Allegedly £10.7 to another group company which will possibly be written off, however that still leaves us deep in the mire.

There is no doubt in my mind that this is the reason no buyers are committing.

As far as the "sod them and take the 15 point hit" goes, that will be dependant on what the admins assess the asset value of the club to be. They are legally bound to sell the club for as near to that figure as possible and if the bidders are well short of that figure then a liquidation and break up is more then ever the likely outcome. Whatever they raise will pay off secured creditor first and foremost and whatever is left will be apportioned between the unsecured creditors as a distribution and a percentage of what they are owed. The fact that NLF are quoted in the document as creditors means if there is a distribution they will get paid. Nothing we, the Admins or anyone else can do about it.

As far as getting the loan annulled, dream on , we have tried the appeals route before and got stung, Pies is right, Choi is a devious t**t and will have this tied and bound.

Once again my apologies to Pies'r'Us for doubting his judgement.

There has been a lot of conflicting information - some of it from admin themselves. Nixon said admin has been telling potential buyers the loan wasn't an issue as well as the rest of us. Strange.