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That is true for a few states-but that is the first wave for those States. The numerous states that had their peak back in April eg. New York have shown no sign of a second wave

Well it's showing no signs of a 2nd wave because it's significantly under lockdown still
https://ny.curbed.com/2020/3/13/21177322/new-york-city-covid-19-coronavirus-reopening

Under phase four the city can reopen low-risk outdoor venues, including botanical gardens and zoos, along with some indoor venues. But in New York City, stringent limits will remain on many activities. That includes gyms, malls, museums, and movie theaters. Indoor dining, which was halted during phase three, still won’t be allowed.
 
Lockdowns are the last thing that are needed in this situation and do not work in terms of the overall health and well-being of society, as attested by the 21,000 extra deaths estimated as a result of the national lockdown instituted in March:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...0-extra-deaths-reduced-access-healthcare.html

I'd also suggest moving your focus away from 'numbers' (i.e. cases) ASAP and instead track hospitalisations and fatalities - the two things that initiated the original lockdown and which surely for any sensible government or participant in the Covid debate, should be the key indicators on whether the UK (or anywhere else) is facing any kind of emergency, second wave or 'spike'.

Latest figures on CV hospitalisations in England:

View attachment 41139

And UK CV deaths:

View attachment 41140
Some more analysis on 'The Second Wave' is here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-coronavirus-wave-no-sign-one-yet-scientists/

I'd agree 'common sense' is not prevailing, but not for the same reasons that you do.

So the lockdown isn't responsible for that reduction?
 
Earlier link behind paywall


A curious swell of panic is emerging in Britain, driven by fears that the country is about to experience a second wave of coronavirus.
Boris Johnson is said to be "extremely concerned" about cases "bubbling up", and it is true that the UK's seven-day average rate now stands at around 700, 28 per cent higher than three weeks ago.
But, arguably, Britain is once again suffering from its haphazard testing regime, which is making it virtually impossible to track the pandemic. The roll-out of test, track and trace means it is highly likely that many mild cases, which would never normally have troubled the testing system, are now being sucked into the figures.

Local outbreaks, such as that in Leicester, have also triggered widespread surveillance testing which has bumped up the positive cases, and there are far more tests being carried overall than in recent months.
Put simply, if you test more people, you'll see more cases.
On Wednesday, 846 people tested positive for coronavirus, and 165,480 tests were processed (0.5 per cent). Contrast that to April 5, at the height of the pandemic, when 5,902 people tested positive and 16,080 tests were processed (36 per cent).

Professor Karol Sikora, the dean of medicine at the University of Buckingham, said: "We're processing 10 times as many tests a day now. The average ticked up today, and cases certainly aren't falling, but we do need some context."
Take a look at the hospital admissions data, however, and there has been no rise. Admissions are continuing to fall, with around 65 new cases a day – down from 3,099 at the peak. It makes it clear that this new increase is not due to severe Covid-19, and these people are not ending up in hospital.

Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month.
Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King's College, said: "The data shows that things haven't changed much since the end of June and we are still at the tail end of the first wave, with around 2,000 cases a day. The numbers are holding steady for now. There is no sign of a second wave yet, but we are keeping a close eye of the data to make sure we catch any changes so that we can take all necessary early measures."


The King's College watchlist now shows that all "at risk" areas are in the north of England, yet even those have seen the surge in numbers stop. "It's not all doom and gloom for the north of England," said Prof Spector. "The data suggest that things are improving."

An increase in localised outbreaks is also entirely expected at the end of a pandemic, and experts say cases are now so low that, if these levels were happening without knowledge of coronavirus, nobody would have spotted the new disease.

Professor Carl Henegehan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University, said: "Across the board, normal life is not resuming because we're still instilling a sense of fear in the community when cases are very low.
"If we didn't have testing now we wouldn't even be considering it a problem, because it's so low. If this was an influenza outbreak, we would have called it finished by now and said we were through this wave, and we would have started to get back to normal.

"We would expect to see sporadic small outbreaks occurring after a major epidemic and, as long as we keep testing, those outbreaks will not get out of control. None of them have led to an overall increase yet."
Prof Heneghan added that people in Britain "are paralysed and fearful of a second wave" amid growing concern about rising case numbers in some other European countries (see the graphic below).

The King's College data estimates that around 29,174 people currently have symptomatic Covid-19 in Britain, which has remained stable since major lockdown restrictions were lifted.

Although being ultra-cautious about the disease may seem prudent, there is mounting evidence that lockdown is causing many excess deaths through lack of adequate healthcare. ONS figures this week show that the number of people dying in hospital is still low, suggesting many people are still not being able to access healthcare.

Sam Williams, of Economic Insight, whose analysis suggests more than 21,000 people may have died because of the consequence of lockdown, said: "The public's perception of Covid risk has been heavily distorted, and that's probably a key explanation for what we find in our study.
"That's very pertinent to the 'second wave' talk from the Government now. You cannot scare people to death and expect there to be no repercussions."
Before lockdown was eased, experts warned that an ongoing endemic level of disease was a price we may have to pay for getting the economy and health service back on track. The data appears to bear out their forecasts.

Dr Michael Head, senior research fellow in Global Health at the University of Southampton, said: "The long-term decline to zero cases of Covid-19 will always see bumps in their graphs within the downward trend.
 
Earlier link behind paywall


A curious swell of panic is emerging in Britain, driven by fears that the country is about to experience a second wave of coronavirus.
Boris Johnson is said to be "extremely concerned" about cases "bubbling up", and it is true that the UK's seven-day average rate now stands at around 700, 28 per cent higher than three weeks ago.
But, arguably, Britain is once again suffering from its haphazard testing regime, which is making it virtually impossible to track the pandemic. The roll-out of test, track and trace means it is highly likely that many mild cases, which would never normally have troubled the testing system, are now being sucked into the figures.

Local outbreaks, such as that in Leicester, have also triggered widespread surveillance testing which has bumped up the positive cases, and there are far more tests being carried overall than in recent months.
Put simply, if you test more people, you'll see more cases.
On Wednesday, 846 people tested positive for coronavirus, and 165,480 tests were processed (0.5 per cent). Contrast that to April 5, at the height of the pandemic, when 5,902 people tested positive and 16,080 tests were processed (36 per cent).

Professor Karol Sikora, the dean of medicine at the University of Buckingham, said: "We're processing 10 times as many tests a day now. The average ticked up today, and cases certainly aren't falling, but we do need some context."
Take a look at the hospital admissions data, however, and there has been no rise. Admissions are continuing to fall, with around 65 new cases a day – down from 3,099 at the peak. It makes it clear that this new increase is not due to severe Covid-19, and these people are not ending up in hospital.

Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month.
Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King's College, said: "The data shows that things haven't changed much since the end of June and we are still at the tail end of the first wave, with around 2,000 cases a day. The numbers are holding steady for now. There is no sign of a second wave yet, but we are keeping a close eye of the data to make sure we catch any changes so that we can take all necessary early measures."


The King's College watchlist now shows that all "at risk" areas are in the north of England, yet even those have seen the surge in numbers stop. "It's not all doom and gloom for the north of England," said Prof Spector. "The data suggest that things are improving."

An increase in localised outbreaks is also entirely expected at the end of a pandemic, and experts say cases are now so low that, if these levels were happening without knowledge of coronavirus, nobody would have spotted the new disease.

Professor Carl Henegehan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University, said: "Across the board, normal life is not resuming because we're still instilling a sense of fear in the community when cases are very low.
"If we didn't have testing now we wouldn't even be considering it a problem, because it's so low. If this was an influenza outbreak, we would have called it finished by now and said we were through this wave, and we would have started to get back to normal.

"We would expect to see sporadic small outbreaks occurring after a major epidemic and, as long as we keep testing, those outbreaks will not get out of control. None of them have led to an overall increase yet."
Prof Heneghan added that people in Britain "are paralysed and fearful of a second wave" amid growing concern about rising case numbers in some other European countries (see the graphic below).

The King's College data estimates that around 29,174 people currently have symptomatic Covid-19 in Britain, which has remained stable since major lockdown restrictions were lifted.

Although being ultra-cautious about the disease may seem prudent, there is mounting evidence that lockdown is causing many excess deaths through lack of adequate healthcare. ONS figures this week show that the number of people dying in hospital is still low, suggesting many people are still not being able to access healthcare.

Sam Williams, of Economic Insight, whose analysis suggests more than 21,000 people may have died because of the consequence of lockdown, said: "The public's perception of Covid risk has been heavily distorted, and that's probably a key explanation for what we find in our study.
"That's very pertinent to the 'second wave' talk from the Government now. You cannot scare people to death and expect there to be no repercussions."
Before lockdown was eased, experts warned that an ongoing endemic level of disease was a price we may have to pay for getting the economy and health service back on track. The data appears to bear out their forecasts.

Dr Michael Head, senior research fellow in Global Health at the University of Southampton, said: "The long-term decline to zero cases of Covid-19 will always see bumps in their graphs within the downward trend.

And yet:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...different-public-health-message-boris-johnson

Whitty, however, gave the lie to that idea: “the idea that we can open up everything and keep the virus under control is clearly wrong.”


And of course they are paralysed and fearful of a 2nd wave, it's killed in excess of 45,000 of us already. We'd be stupid not to be. Let's remember that something of the region of 5 and a bit Boeing 747's crashing into the ground with all hands lost every week for the last 4 months.

If this were anything other than the drip, drip, drip of the old and vulnerable in our society dying there would be absolutely no debate about what the solution would be I suspect...
 
Earlier link behind paywall


A curious swell of panic is emerging in Britain, driven by fears that the country is about to experience a second wave of coronavirus.
Boris Johnson is said to be "extremely concerned" about cases "bubbling up", and it is true that the UK's seven-day average rate now stands at around 700, 28 per cent higher than three weeks ago.
But, arguably, Britain is once again suffering from its haphazard testing regime, which is making it virtually impossible to track the pandemic. The roll-out of test, track and trace means it is highly likely that many mild cases, which would never normally have troubled the testing system, are now being sucked into the figures.

Local outbreaks, such as that in Leicester, have also triggered widespread surveillance testing which has bumped up the positive cases, and there are far more tests being carried overall than in recent months.
Put simply, if you test more people, you'll see more cases.
On Wednesday, 846 people tested positive for coronavirus, and 165,480 tests were processed (0.5 per cent). Contrast that to April 5, at the height of the pandemic, when 5,902 people tested positive and 16,080 tests were processed (36 per cent).

Professor Karol Sikora, the dean of medicine at the University of Buckingham, said: "We're processing 10 times as many tests a day now. The average ticked up today, and cases certainly aren't falling, but we do need some context."
Take a look at the hospital admissions data, however, and there has been no rise. Admissions are continuing to fall, with around 65 new cases a day – down from 3,099 at the peak. It makes it clear that this new increase is not due to severe Covid-19, and these people are not ending up in hospital.

Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month.
Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King's College, said: "The data shows that things haven't changed much since the end of June and we are still at the tail end of the first wave, with around 2,000 cases a day. The numbers are holding steady for now. There is no sign of a second wave yet, but we are keeping a close eye of the data to make sure we catch any changes so that we can take all necessary early measures."


The King's College watchlist now shows that all "at risk" areas are in the north of England, yet even those have seen the surge in numbers stop. "It's not all doom and gloom for the north of England," said Prof Spector. "The data suggest that things are improving."

An increase in localised outbreaks is also entirely expected at the end of a pandemic, and experts say cases are now so low that, if these levels were happening without knowledge of coronavirus, nobody would have spotted the new disease.

Professor Carl Henegehan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University, said: "Across the board, normal life is not resuming because we're still instilling a sense of fear in the community when cases are very low.
"If we didn't have testing now we wouldn't even be considering it a problem, because it's so low. If this was an influenza outbreak, we would have called it finished by now and said we were through this wave, and we would have started to get back to normal.

"We would expect to see sporadic small outbreaks occurring after a major epidemic and, as long as we keep testing, those outbreaks will not get out of control. None of them have led to an overall increase yet."
Prof Heneghan added that people in Britain "are paralysed and fearful of a second wave" amid growing concern about rising case numbers in some other European countries (see the graphic below).

The King's College data estimates that around 29,174 people currently have symptomatic Covid-19 in Britain, which has remained stable since major lockdown restrictions were lifted.

Although being ultra-cautious about the disease may seem prudent, there is mounting evidence that lockdown is causing many excess deaths through lack of adequate healthcare. ONS figures this week show that the number of people dying in hospital is still low, suggesting many people are still not being able to access healthcare.

Sam Williams, of Economic Insight, whose analysis suggests more than 21,000 people may have died because of the consequence of lockdown, said: "The public's perception of Covid risk has been heavily distorted, and that's probably a key explanation for what we find in our study.
"That's very pertinent to the 'second wave' talk from the Government now. You cannot scare people to death and expect there to be no repercussions."
Before lockdown was eased, experts warned that an ongoing endemic level of disease was a price we may have to pay for getting the economy and health service back on track. The data appears to bear out their forecasts.

Dr Michael Head, senior research fellow in Global Health at the University of Southampton, said: "The long-term decline to zero cases of Covid-19 will always see bumps in their graphs within the downward trend.

Echo's Trump's theme, we're testing too much? Not a good starting point.

The problem with these local increases in cases is they're fuelled by teenagers and young adults congregating in breach of rules. They may well mainly experience "mild flu" and not register on hospital admissions and deaths, though my son's A&E doctor girlfriend has seen patients in that age group die of Covid.

The spreading to older family members who may require hospitalization and may die- that's the 'second wave' and it's still incubating. The reintroduction of measures is unfortunate (it messes up our family plans for a get-together in a couple of weeks as the above mentioned son and girlfriend live in Manchester), but necessary to try and contain the irresponsibility of those who seem incapable of exercising self-restraint.
 
Echo's Trump's theme, we're testing too much? Not a good starting point.

The problem with these local increases in cases is they're fuelled by teenagers and young adults congregating in breach of rules. They may well mainly experience "mild flu" and not register on hospital admissions and deaths, though my son's A&E doctor girlfriend has seen patients in that age group die of Covid.

The spreading to older family members who may require hospitalization and may die- that's the 'second wave' and it's still incubating. The reintroduction of measures is unfortunate (it messes up our family plans for a get-together in a couple of weeks as the above mentioned son and girlfriend live in Manchester), but necessary to try and contain the irresponsibility of those who seem incapable of exercising self-restraint.

Local increases are not always fuelled by teenagers etc . I'm in Wales and the 3 main increases were centred around food packing plants in Anglesey , Merthyr Tydfil and Wrexham . first two are sorted and wrexham is so far under control . Here in Wales im pleased that overall self restriant seems to being excersised .
 
Turns out the US did all their homework and just decided to not hand it in
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/202...s-secret-testing-plan-went-poof-into-thin-air

With no bankable national plan, the effort to create one has fallen to a network of high-level civilians and nongovernmental organizations. The most visible effort is led by the Rockefeller Foundation and its soft-spoken president, Dr. Rajiv Shah. Focused and determinedly apolitical, Shah, 47, is now steering a widening and bipartisan coalition that includes three former FDA commissioners, a Nobel Prize–winning economist, a movie star, and 27 American cities, states, and tribal nations, all toward the far-reaching goal of getting to 30 million COVID-19 tests a week by autumn, up from the current rate of roughly 5.5 million a week.

“We know what has to be done: broad and ubiquitous testing tied to broad and effective contact tracing,” until a vaccine can be widely administered, Shah told Vanity Fair. “It takes about five minutes for anyone to understand that is the only path forward to reopening and recovering.” Without that, he said, “Our country is going to be stuck facing a series of rebound epidemics that are highly consequential in a really deleterious way.”
 
Graun, again:

The delay in the easing of lockdown restrictions came with a warning from Prof Chris Whitty, England’s chief medical officer, that the country now appears to be “at the outer edge” of how far society can safely reopen in the age of the pandemic.

“If we wish to do more things in the future, we may have to do less of some other things,” he said. “The idea that we can open up everything and keep the virus under control is clearly wrong.”
 
Here's what happened when people *didn't* do that, as described by Stokeimp:

"A pub in Stone, the local market town down the road from us, was pictured earlier in the week with their beer garden rammed with people a week last Saturday night. Now 10 people who were there have tested positive for coronavirus, and a testing station has been set up in the town, at which there are massive queues - aiming to test people who were there, who they've been in contact with, and who was elsewhere in town over that weekend. The demographic appears to be largely late teens / early twenties."

Latest on this is that the 10 cases went quickly up to 11. They have so far tested 500 people and had around 130 results back. There have been an additional 5 cases of secondary infection found. As well as the 370 odd test results still awaited there are still 2 days of testing to go
 
Lockdowns are the last thing that are needed in this situation and do not work in terms of the overall health and well-being of society, as attested by the 21,000 extra deaths estimated as a result of the national lockdown instituted in March:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...0-extra-deaths-reduced-access-healthcare.html

I'd also suggest moving your focus away from 'numbers' (i.e. cases) ASAP and instead track hospitalisations and fatalities - the two things that initiated the original lockdown and which surely for any sensible government or participant in the Covid debate, should be the key indicators on whether the UK (or anywhere else) is facing any kind of emergency, second wave or 'spike'.

Latest figures on CV hospitalisations in England:

View attachment 41139

And UK CV deaths:

View attachment 41140
Some more analysis on 'The Second Wave' is here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-coronavirus-wave-no-sign-one-yet-scientists/

I'd agree 'common sense' is not prevailing, but not for the same reasons that you do.

Numbers precede hospitalisations which precede deaths. If the numbers are rising so will the hospitalisations and then the deaths. We've been over and over this in this thread. Some weeks ago the US had apparently nothing to worry about after their cases started rising again according to some on this thread. Now we see the deaths rising again after the appropriate lag.

If you want to understand what the impact of your actions is before it's too late then cases are your earliest indicator and the earlier you take action the more effective it is..
 
Latest on this is that the 10 cases went quickly up to 11. They have so far tested 500 people and had around 130 results back. There have been an additional 5 cases of secondary infection found. As well as the 370 odd test results still awaited there are still 2 days of testing to go

What I didn't say is that four pubs and a coffee bar have voluntarily closed due to this outbreak and the (monthly) farmers market has been cancelled - all because of this one pub
 
Numbers precede hospitalisations which precede deaths. If the numbers are rising so will the hospitalisations and then the deaths. We've been over and over this in this thread. Some weeks ago the US had apparently nothing to worry about after their cases started rising again according to some on this thread. Now we see the deaths rising again after the appropriate lag.

If you want to understand what the impact of your actions is before it's too late then cases are your earliest indicator and the earlier you take action the more effective it is..

Yep. Back of the envelope calculation - it's about 23 days from infection to hospitalisation, 30+ days for deaths (based on 14 days to show symptoms, a further 9 to take a turn for the worse, then a week to several months in hospital).

So infections don't translate into deaths for about a month, often longer.
 
Numbers precede hospitalisations which precede deaths. If the numbers are rising so will the hospitalisations and then the deaths. We've been over and over this in this thread. Some weeks ago the US had apparently nothing to worry about after their cases started rising again according to some on this thread. Now we see the deaths rising again after the appropriate lag.

If you want to understand what the impact of your actions is before it's too late then cases are your earliest indicator and the earlier you take action the more effective it is..

You are right about the lags you mentioned. However with a significant ramp up in testing you may change your demographic of your testing audience eg, testing more proportionately more young people. You may also pick up a lot more asymtiomatic cases. If those affect your sample size significantly then you could get a large increase in cases but very few subsequent fatalities.
 
You are right about the lags you mentioned. However with a significant ramp up in testing you may change your demographic of your testing audience eg, testing more proportionately more young people. You may also pick up a lot more asymtiomatic cases. If those affect your sample size significantly then you could get a large increase in cases but very few subsequent fatalities.

And have we significantly ramped up testing in the last few weeks I don't think so? I'm pretty certain the US haven't either...

In other news Victoria Australia appears to be enforcing a second lockdown even more rigorous than the last in an attempt to knock the virus out
https://www.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-covid-19-restrictions-victoria
 
Sunday Times with an article today indicating *shock horror* that the promises to provide testing to care homes has not been kept.

"Regular testing of almost 2 million residents was supposed to have begun on July 6th, but Cummings (not Dominic I hasten to add) said it would not reach all care homes for older people and those with dementia until September 7th"

And also in the same article *shock horror* testing and tracing failing abjectly

"Analysis of official figures shows that the tracing regime is also in trouble. Serco and Sitel, the two outsourcing giants who were paid 192m pounds to run the scheme are only reaching 52% of the contacts named by infected patients, even when they are living under the same roof."

Well who would have seen that coming eh? Another complete failure of a project by Baroness Harding, another complete failure to do the one thing we can do right now apart from social distancing to get us out of lockdown. "World Class test and tracing system"? Don't make me laugh...

The reason we are having to "press the brakes" is because we gave this critical tool in our armoury to a complete f**kwit who couldn't organise her way out of a paper bag and now we have nothing left but to ensure social distancing to prevent it's spread.