Police on police bullying and racism (FAO nobs, partly) | Page 2 | Vital Football

Police on police bullying and racism (FAO nobs, partly)

The following is a recently written article (it appeared in The Spectator) by a former Metropolitan Police Chief Superintendent (Kevin Hurley). The content resonates with a large proportion of current and ex police officers and, in that context, i`ve placed it on this forum so that members might get a feel for why ordinary cops become so frustrated about being slurred as racist.......

It`s a bit of a long read, but hits the spot. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to give it a whirl......


I was a borough commander in west London and come from a long line of officers — and I can tell you that it’s fast becoming impossible to police the streets. The police are attacked on all sides. They’re told both that they’re too aggressive and too politically correct; too understanding and too intolerant. They’re required to reduce the level of violent crime on the street and yet told they’re racist if they stop and search young black men and ‘put hands in pockets’ to check for knives.

As a society we can shout and scream at the police, regulate them, scrutinise them, sack a few, bring in external bosses from industry. We can try to ‘re-educate’ them and have an independent complaints system. But unless we look clearly at the real problems street constables and junior detectives face every day, our cities will soon be lawless.


The first thing to understand is that the ‘police’ are not a homogenous group. A response police officer in inner London has little in common with the commissioner or her senior officers, save that they wear a similar uniform. While both groups want to think they are making a difference, the chiefs will be thinking of long-term strategies, managing budgets, building relationships with other government bodies. Occasionally they will be diverted into thinking about some fast-moving issue such as a terrorist event or newspaper criticism of the handling of a major inquiry.

Once dealing with dynamic events is no longer their daily business, police chiefs can forget what it’s like to be a superintendent or inspector. They want good press and they become calculating and political in pursuit of the top job.

The street cops generally come from fairly good homes. Most have decent educations. A lot of them nowadays have been to university or have done a variety of jobs before they joined, from infantrymen in Afghanistan to nurses or restaurant managers. The majority are still white, but that’s no surprise really: most have joined due to having had positive exposure to police officers in the past. A surprising number of police are, like me, related to other police officers or to service personnel.

No one who joins the police would express a racist view when being selected or during training — to express such a view in the workplace would be suicidal to their careers and would at the very least result in several of their colleagues turning on them. So why do so many young black people loathe the police? Why is there so much violence?

It all comes down to what in police circles is known as the ‘Betari box’ of human behaviour. This describes a vicious circle: your behaviour influences my behaviour; my behaviour influences your behaviour.

This is how it works. Imagine a newly minted PC arriving on an inner London borough where black-on-black stabbings and murders are a priority. Together with an experienced colleague, she will approach a pair of known street criminals to ask them what they are doing in a particular location. But as the officers approach, the young men will often start to be abusive, saying: ‘You’re only picking on me because I’m black.’ A big crowd of people will then surround the officers and start to shout, even obstruct them. The police will call for help and help will arrive with sirens blaring; the police will either dominate, or they will run away (withdraw).

After such an encounter, inevitably complaints will be made against the police officers, and after a few more episodes like this, our young officer’s ‘Betari box’ has become fixed. She thinks: if I try to solve problems and keep the black community safe, I’m accused of bigotry. Meanwhile the myth of police racism continues and the black youths at that incident convince themselves that they were picked on in an unjustified search.

It’s often the best young officers who become most disillusioned. I remember one young street crime squad officer in central London who had a prolific arrest rate of criminals. The secret of his success was loitering around Victoria station, learning the known suspects’ faces and observing carefully. It was dangerous and violent work, making arrests in plain clothes next to the live rail, but it was rewarding.

Because his 25 most recent arrests were all black youths, this officer was called in by his superintendent and told he was racially biased. The officer replied: ‘But most of the muggings and snatches in this area are being done by black youths.’ The senior officer said: ‘That’s not the point. I think you need to go on a racial awareness course.’

The superintendent put an adverse comment on the officer’s file and blocked his application for promotion. The officer gave up arresting robbers and became an errand boy for the CID, going out and arresting their burglary suspects identified by fingerprints. Most burglars are white. It was safe work.

When I was a borough commander in west London, I asked the crime analysts to identify the ten most prolific robbers in the area and the ten most violent gang members. When they’d been identified, I stuck their photographs up on the exit door from the station into the police vehicle car park. This was where the PCs drank their tea before going on patrol, so my idea was that this way, even the most idle officers would have to look at and learn the criminals’ faces before they went out on patrol.

Then my senior officer came on a ‘royal visit’. He wanted to know how we did so well at reducing robbery and why we had no youth murders. As I explained our various tactics and we went out of the car park door. He noticed the 20 photos and said: ‘Why have you got all these black youths’ pictures stuck up here? You can’t do that — it sends the wrong message to any visitors.’ When I explained my rationale, my boss replied: ‘Well, take some down and put some white ones up as well.’ But these are the men identified as the most high-risk to the public by our civilian analysts, I answered. I was told: ‘I don’t care. We can’t have this, take them down.’

When my boss left, I ignored his instructions. The safety of the public was more important to me. Though my boss made sure I wasn’t promoted again, we remained a top performing borough, we had no youth murders, and my successor soon inherited the only inner-city borough not to face rioting or looting in 2011.

For many people, the idea that the police are racist fits with their view of history. It’s not all unfounded. They think of the abominations suffered at colonial hands, the terrible experiences of the Windrush generation and the racism of the 1950s and 1960s. It’s a toxic mix.

It is also too often the case now that black fathers are absent, leaving mothers and grandmothers to bring up the kids. Often these women are forced to be away from the children, working all hours in hard low-paid jobs such as carers or cleaners, sometimes doing two jobs or struggling on benefits. Is it any wonder that so many young black boys end up in trouble? So there is no doubt that they suffer social disadvantages. But then so do many poor white children.

The result of all this is that the police have given up being inquisitive. Most people don’t realise the most important quality in a copper is to be nosey. You have got to want to investigate and to get to the bottom of a problem.

If police lose the appetite to investigate, this would be a disaster for black families. It would mean many more mothers would lose their sons to the knife, gun or a lifetime in prison. It would mean that our streets would become scarier, and that county lines gangs would flourish, bringing drugs into our leafy shires and blighting the lives of more black children.

If black lives really mattered, we would change the conditions that result in this carnage. But we don’t. That is real institutional, systemic racism.


Thanks for taking the time to read the above.
 
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Pretty good summary as I have immmediate first hand knowledge of what it is like for a response officer working in Westminster right now.

One problem is that the current force are suffering from some fairly abysmal and discriminatory behaviour in the past. Sorry to say it but the Met had a lot of "wronguns" in the 70's -90's. My missus worked as a civvy in Bow Street nick early 80's and there were plenty of freeloaders and lazy f#ckers milking the system. I lived in the inner city during that time and the police were pretty shabby. Made plenty of money out of doing Thatcher's dirty work though.

The "Murder in the Car Park" documentary on the axe murder in one of my local pubs at the time shows some coppers as dodgy as f#ck. Terrible practices.

My contact tells me that quite a lot of her colleagues just don't understand why there is resentment or that there is an element of racism still apparent.

Having said that, it is clear that the police have made massive strides forward and practices are far better than in the past. Current police are paying for the legacy they've inherited.

As the article says, they get sh#t from all sides and can't win. I'm amazed at how my contact keeps her spirits up. Recently she said "they hate us until they need us".

What would also help is if they didn't have to spend over half their time on drug addicts and the mentally ill for whom there is grossly inadequate provision.
 
The latest BBC footage regarding the sprinter shows some very aggressive scenes from both parties.

I wonder what would have happened if they had simply complied with the request "OK officer, you are just doing your job, please feel free to complete your search".

Would it have been over in 5 mins without all the aggression ?

Some people look for an argument and that always escalates.

I have never been stopped and searched so hard to comment. I just think it takes two to have an argument
 
Treat others as you would expect to be treated yourself.
Courtesy and manners cost nothing.

There are plenty of people who are aggressive towards the police , of all colours and creeds , and there always have been.
It's now become almost trendy to be uncooperative , with YouTube 'stars' filming themselves and encouraging others.
Media coverage of cops taking the knee , then later running away etc have not helped.
 
The latest BBC footage regarding the sprinter shows some very aggressive scenes from both parties.

I wonder what would have happened if they had simply complied with the request "OK officer, you are just doing your job, please feel free to complete your search".

Would it have been over in 5 mins without all the aggression ?

Some people look for an argument and that always escalates.

I have never been stopped and searched so hard to comment. I just think it takes two to have an argument


The people in the car traveled along the wrong side of the street, took short cut rat-runs and failed to stop for police when required to do so. Not only did they fail to comply they accelerated away from the scene ! . When they came to a stop and police officers got out of their van the occupants of the car refused to get out.

From the account of the female occupant and notwithstanding that the police didn`t get a look at how many occupants there were etc (due to the shaded windows of the car) it was clear that any police officer worth their salt would have been suspicious about the vehicle, followed it and stopped it.

Bearing in mind that the vehicle had already made-off from police it was appropriate that the occupants were placed in handcuffs - to stop them making off again. After the occupants gave satisfactory accounts they were allowed to get on with their day.

This really is a load of fuss about nothing and just the sort of tripe that the media love to make a big issue of - look at the official Met account on their website if you have any doubts. The officers were wearing cameras and captured all of the circumstances. Lazy reporting, especially by the BBC.
 
The following is a recently written article (it appeared in The Spectator) by a former Metropolitan Police Chief Superintendent (Kevin Hurley). The content resonates with a large proportion of current and ex police officers and, in that context, i`ve placed it on this forum so that members might get a feel for why ordinary cops become so frustrated about being slurred as racist.......

It`s a bit of a long read, but hits the spot. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to give it a whirl......


I was a borough commander in west London and come from a long line of officers — and I can tell you that it’s fast becoming impossible to police the streets. The police are attacked on all sides. They’re told both that they’re too aggressive and too politically correct; too understanding and too intolerant. They’re required to reduce the level of violent crime on the street and yet told they’re racist if they stop and search young black men and ‘put hands in pockets’ to check for knives.

As a society we can shout and scream at the police, regulate them, scrutinise them, sack a few, bring in external bosses from industry. We can try to ‘re-educate’ them and have an independent complaints system. But unless we look clearly at the real problems street constables and junior detectives face every day, our cities will soon be lawless.


The first thing to understand is that the ‘police’ are not a homogenous group. A response police officer in inner London has little in common with the commissioner or her senior officers, save that they wear a similar uniform. While both groups want to think they are making a difference, the chiefs will be thinking of long-term strategies, managing budgets, building relationships with other government bodies. Occasionally they will be diverted into thinking about some fast-moving issue such as a terrorist event or newspaper criticism of the handling of a major inquiry.

Once dealing with dynamic events is no longer their daily business, police chiefs can forget what it’s like to be a superintendent or inspector. They want good press and they become calculating and political in pursuit of the top job.

The street cops generally come from fairly good homes. Most have decent educations. A lot of them nowadays have been to university or have done a variety of jobs before they joined, from infantrymen in Afghanistan to nurses or restaurant managers. The majority are still white, but that’s no surprise really: most have joined due to having had positive exposure to police officers in the past. A surprising number of police are, like me, related to other police officers or to service personnel.

No one who joins the police would express a racist view when being selected or during training — to express such a view in the workplace would be suicidal to their careers and would at the very least result in several of their colleagues turning on them. So why do so many young black people loathe the police? Why is there so much violence?

It all comes down to what in police circles is known as the ‘Betari box’ of human behaviour. This describes a vicious circle: your behaviour influences my behaviour; my behaviour influences your behaviour.

This is how it works. Imagine a newly minted PC arriving on an inner London borough where black-on-black stabbings and murders are a priority. Together with an experienced colleague, she will approach a pair of known street criminals to ask them what they are doing in a particular location. But as the officers approach, the young men will often start to be abusive, saying: ‘You’re only picking on me because I’m black.’ A big crowd of people will then surround the officers and start to shout, even obstruct them. The police will call for help and help will arrive with sirens blaring; the police will either dominate, or they will run away (withdraw).

After such an encounter, inevitably complaints will be made against the police officers, and after a few more episodes like this, our young officer’s ‘Betari box’ has become fixed. She thinks: if I try to solve problems and keep the black community safe, I’m accused of bigotry. Meanwhile the myth of police racism continues and the black youths at that incident convince themselves that they were picked on in an unjustified search.

It’s often the best young officers who become most disillusioned. I remember one young street crime squad officer in central London who had a prolific arrest rate of criminals. The secret of his success was loitering around Victoria station, learning the known suspects’ faces and observing carefully. It was dangerous and violent work, making arrests in plain clothes next to the live rail, but it was rewarding.

Because his 25 most recent arrests were all black youths, this officer was called in by his superintendent and told he was racially biased. The officer replied: ‘But most of the muggings and snatches in this area are being done by black youths.’ The senior officer said: ‘That’s not the point. I think you need to go on a racial awareness course.’

The superintendent put an adverse comment on the officer’s file and blocked his application for promotion. The officer gave up arresting robbers and became an errand boy for the CID, going out and arresting their burglary suspects identified by fingerprints. Most burglars are white. It was safe work.

When I was a borough commander in west London, I asked the crime analysts to identify the ten most prolific robbers in the area and the ten most violent gang members. When they’d been identified, I stuck their photographs up on the exit door from the station into the police vehicle car park. This was where the PCs drank their tea before going on patrol, so my idea was that this way, even the most idle officers would have to look at and learn the criminals’ faces before they went out on patrol.

Then my senior officer came on a ‘royal visit’. He wanted to know how we did so well at reducing robbery and why we had no youth murders. As I explained our various tactics and we went out of the car park door. He noticed the 20 photos and said: ‘Why have you got all these black youths’ pictures stuck up here? You can’t do that — it sends the wrong message to any visitors.’ When I explained my rationale, my boss replied: ‘Well, take some down and put some white ones up as well.’ But these are the men identified as the most high-risk to the public by our civilian analysts, I answered. I was told: ‘I don’t care. We can’t have this, take them down.’

When my boss left, I ignored his instructions. The safety of the public was more important to me. Though my boss made sure I wasn’t promoted again, we remained a top performing borough, we had no youth murders, and my successor soon inherited the only inner-city borough not to face rioting or looting in 2011.

For many people, the idea that the police are racist fits with their view of history. It’s not all unfounded. They think of the abominations suffered at colonial hands, the terrible experiences of the Windrush generation and the racism of the 1950s and 1960s. It’s a toxic mix.

It is also too often the case now that black fathers are absent, leaving mothers and grandmothers to bring up the kids. Often these women are forced to be away from the children, working all hours in hard low-paid jobs such as carers or cleaners, sometimes doing two jobs or struggling on benefits. Is it any wonder that so many young black boys end up in trouble? So there is no doubt that they suffer social disadvantages. But then so do many poor white children.

The result of all this is that the police have given up being inquisitive. Most people don’t realise the most important quality in a copper is to be nosey. You have got to want to investigate and to get to the bottom of a problem.

If police lose the appetite to investigate, this would be a disaster for black families. It would mean many more mothers would lose their sons to the knife, gun or a lifetime in prison. It would mean that our streets would become scarier, and that county lines gangs would flourish, bringing drugs into our leafy shires and blighting the lives of more black children.

If black lives really mattered, we would change the conditions that result in this carnage. But we don’t. That is real institutional, systemic racism.


Thanks for taking the time to read the above.

Interesting read Lancs and somehow fits with so much else that we now struggle to do properly. I get the impression that a similar divide to that betweeen black youths and the police now exists with other groups, which is depressing. We lead such different lives from one another now and the divisions of wealth, opportunity and experience only get wider.

The saddest part of that piece is the slow disillusion of young officers, who have a natural and developed inquisitive sense. I may not agree with others on the problems and the way forward but profiling, stereotyping and the rest are the very opposite of observation, local knowledge and engagement. Wherever you are on this question we seem to be shooting ourselves in the foot.
 
Pretty good summary as I have immmediate first hand knowledge of what it is like for a response officer working in Westminster right now.

One problem is that the current force are suffering from some fairly abysmal and discriminatory behaviour in the past. Sorry to say it but the Met had a lot of "wronguns" in the 70's -90's. My missus worked as a civvy in Bow Street nick early 80's and there were plenty of freeloaders and lazy f#ckers milking the system. I lived in the inner city during that time and the police were pretty shabby. Made plenty of money out of doing Thatcher's dirty work though.

The "Murder in the Car Park" documentary on the axe murder in one of my local pubs at the time shows some coppers as dodgy as f#ck. Terrible practices.

My contact tells me that quite a lot of her colleagues just don't understand why there is resentment or that there is an element of racism still apparent.

Having said that, it is clear that the police have made massive strides forward and practices are far better than in the past. Current police are paying for the legacy they've inherited.

As the article says, they get sh#t from all sides and can't win. I'm amazed at how my contact keeps her spirits up. Recently she said "they hate us until they need us".

What would also help is if they didn't have to spend over half their time on drug addicts and the mentally ill for whom there is grossly inadequate provision.


I take issue with your sweeping claims about police in the 70`s to the 90`s and the assertion linking police with politics of the day. I know about those times - I was there. I also know about the Murder in the Car Park issue, yep, there were some bad eggs involved in and around that particular private investigation .agency - but it was by no means reflective of the average officer of the time.

"Current police are paying for the legacy they've inherited" - sorry but that`s rubbish. It`s society that changes and the police change with it - not the other way around. There are bad eggs in the police today just as there were a few decades ago - but the vast, vast majority now and then hard working, dedicated officers with absolute integrity and more than a little courage.
 
The people in the car traveled along the wrong side of the street, took short cut rat-runs and failed to stop for police when required to do so. Not only did they fail to comply they accelerated away from the scene ! . When they came to a stop and police officers got out of their van the occupants of the car refused to get out.

From the account of the female occupant and notwithstanding that the police didn`t get a look at how many occupants there were etc (due to the shaded windows of the car) it was clear that any police officer worth their salt would have been suspicious about the vehicle, followed it and stopped it.

Bearing in mind that the vehicle had already made-off from police it was appropriate that the occupants were placed in handcuffs - to stop them making off again. After the occupants gave satisfactory accounts they were allowed to get on with their day.

This really is a load of fuss about nothing and just the sort of tripe that the media love to make a big issue of - look at the official Met account on their website if you have any doubts. The officers were wearing cameras and captured all of the circumstances. Lazy reporting, especially by the BBC.
Worth adding that the car was stopped as officers detected the smell of cannabis coming from it, hence grounds to stop and search the car and it's occupants. These grounds also allow officers to detain for the purpose of search using reasonable grounds (handcuffing as the occupants were being obstructive)
I always tell people that when these videos appear online, every effort should be made to find footage of what preceeded it. The DPS have done this and, after not one but TWO reviews have said that the officers acted correctly. As you know Lancs, if the DPS have exonerated the officers, they must be pretty much covered as self policing is massively high on the agenda nowadays. This hasn't stopped the Met referring itself to the IOPC however so the officers will now be subject to months of uncertainty whilst their investigation grinds on.
Unfortunately, even if (when) cleared, the public will always think of these and officers as racist as it seems to fit the latest trend. I, however, will be interested to hear what Team GB have to say about their athlete's behaviour. As Markinkent mentions, after driving in that manner, to stop, take a bollocking and get on with his day would have taken 5 minutes. But that wouldn't make the news would it?
 
The following is a recently written article (it appeared in The Spectator) by a former Metropolitan Police Chief Superintendent (Kevin Hurley). The content resonates with a large proportion of current and ex police officers and, in that context, i`ve placed it on this forum so that members might get a feel for why ordinary cops become so frustrated about being slurred as racist.......

It`s a bit of a long read, but hits the spot. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to give it a whirl......


I was a borough commander in west London and come from a long line of officers — and I can tell you that it’s fast becoming impossible to police the streets. The police are attacked on all sides. They’re told both that they’re too aggressive and too politically correct; too understanding and too intolerant. They’re required to reduce the level of violent crime on the street and yet told they’re racist if they stop and search young black men and ‘put hands in pockets’ to check for knives.

As a society we can shout and scream at the police, regulate them, scrutinise them, sack a few, bring in external bosses from industry. We can try to ‘re-educate’ them and have an independent complaints system. But unless we look clearly at the real problems street constables and junior detectives face every day, our cities will soon be lawless.


The first thing to understand is that the ‘police’ are not a homogenous group. A response police officer in inner London has little in common with the commissioner or her senior officers, save that they wear a similar uniform. While both groups want to think they are making a difference, the chiefs will be thinking of long-term strategies, managing budgets, building relationships with other government bodies. Occasionally they will be diverted into thinking about some fast-moving issue such as a terrorist event or newspaper criticism of the handling of a major inquiry.

Once dealing with dynamic events is no longer their daily business, police chiefs can forget what it’s like to be a superintendent or inspector. They want good press and they become calculating and political in pursuit of the top job.

The street cops generally come from fairly good homes. Most have decent educations. A lot of them nowadays have been to university or have done a variety of jobs before they joined, from infantrymen in Afghanistan to nurses or restaurant managers. The majority are still white, but that’s no surprise really: most have joined due to having had positive exposure to police officers in the past. A surprising number of police are, like me, related to other police officers or to service personnel.

No one who joins the police would express a racist view when being selected or during training — to express such a view in the workplace would be suicidal to their careers and would at the very least result in several of their colleagues turning on them. So why do so many young black people loathe the police? Why is there so much violence?

It all comes down to what in police circles is known as the ‘Betari box’ of human behaviour. This describes a vicious circle: your behaviour influences my behaviour; my behaviour influences your behaviour.

This is how it works. Imagine a newly minted PC arriving on an inner London borough where black-on-black stabbings and murders are a priority. Together with an experienced colleague, she will approach a pair of known street criminals to ask them what they are doing in a particular location. But as the officers approach, the young men will often start to be abusive, saying: ‘You’re only picking on me because I’m black.’ A big crowd of people will then surround the officers and start to shout, even obstruct them. The police will call for help and help will arrive with sirens blaring; the police will either dominate, or they will run away (withdraw).

After such an encounter, inevitably complaints will be made against the police officers, and after a few more episodes like this, our young officer’s ‘Betari box’ has become fixed. She thinks: if I try to solve problems and keep the black community safe, I’m accused of bigotry. Meanwhile the myth of police racism continues and the black youths at that incident convince themselves that they were picked on in an unjustified search.

It’s often the best young officers who become most disillusioned. I remember one young street crime squad officer in central London who had a prolific arrest rate of criminals. The secret of his success was loitering around Victoria station, learning the known suspects’ faces and observing carefully. It was dangerous and violent work, making arrests in plain clothes next to the live rail, but it was rewarding.

Because his 25 most recent arrests were all black youths, this officer was called in by his superintendent and told he was racially biased. The officer replied: ‘But most of the muggings and snatches in this area are being done by black youths.’ The senior officer said: ‘That’s not the point. I think you need to go on a racial awareness course.’

The superintendent put an adverse comment on the officer’s file and blocked his application for promotion. The officer gave up arresting robbers and became an errand boy for the CID, going out and arresting their burglary suspects identified by fingerprints. Most burglars are white. It was safe work.

When I was a borough commander in west London, I asked the crime analysts to identify the ten most prolific robbers in the area and the ten most violent gang members. When they’d been identified, I stuck their photographs up on the exit door from the station into the police vehicle car park. This was where the PCs drank their tea before going on patrol, so my idea was that this way, even the most idle officers would have to look at and learn the criminals’ faces before they went out on patrol.

Then my senior officer came on a ‘royal visit’. He wanted to know how we did so well at reducing robbery and why we had no youth murders. As I explained our various tactics and we went out of the car park door. He noticed the 20 photos and said: ‘Why have you got all these black youths’ pictures stuck up here? You can’t do that — it sends the wrong message to any visitors.’ When I explained my rationale, my boss replied: ‘Well, take some down and put some white ones up as well.’ But these are the men identified as the most high-risk to the public by our civilian analysts, I answered. I was told: ‘I don’t care. We can’t have this, take them down.’

When my boss left, I ignored his instructions. The safety of the public was more important to me. Though my boss made sure I wasn’t promoted again, we remained a top performing borough, we had no youth murders, and my successor soon inherited the only inner-city borough not to face rioting or looting in 2011.

For many people, the idea that the police are racist fits with their view of history. It’s not all unfounded. They think of the abominations suffered at colonial hands, the terrible experiences of the Windrush generation and the racism of the 1950s and 1960s. It’s a toxic mix.

It is also too often the case now that black fathers are absent, leaving mothers and grandmothers to bring up the kids. Often these women are forced to be away from the children, working all hours in hard low-paid jobs such as carers or cleaners, sometimes doing two jobs or struggling on benefits. Is it any wonder that so many young black boys end up in trouble? So there is no doubt that they suffer social disadvantages. But then so do many poor white children.

The result of all this is that the police have given up being inquisitive. Most people don’t realise the most important quality in a copper is to be nosey. You have got to want to investigate and to get to the bottom of a problem.

If police lose the appetite to investigate, this would be a disaster for black families. It would mean many more mothers would lose their sons to the knife, gun or a lifetime in prison. It would mean that our streets would become scarier, and that county lines gangs would flourish, bringing drugs into our leafy shires and blighting the lives of more black children.

If black lives really mattered, we would change the conditions that result in this carnage. But we don’t. That is real institutional, systemic racism.


Thanks for taking the time to read the above.
Great Post by the way, I've read many articles by Mr Hurley and he speaks a lot of sense.
If you're interested, there's another ex Met Governor, John Sutherland, who has written a couple of brilliant books about his time in "The Job". Well worth a read.

Finally, just a quick word to remember the victims of the 7/7 bombings, 15 years ago today. I was in duty that day and its a day I'll never forget.

RIP to the 52 😪
 
The following is a recently written article (it appeared in The Spectator) by a former Metropolitan Police Chief Superintendent (Kevin Hurley). The content resonates with a large proportion of current and ex police officers and, in that context, i`ve placed it on this forum so that members might get a feel for why ordinary cops become so frustrated about being slurred as racist.......

It`s a bit of a long read, but hits the spot. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to give it a whirl......


I was a borough commander in west London and come from a long line of officers — and I can tell you that it’s fast becoming impossible to police the streets. The police are attacked on all sides. They’re told both that they’re too aggressive and too politically correct; too understanding and too intolerant. They’re required to reduce the level of violent crime on the street and yet told they’re racist if they stop and search young black men and ‘put hands in pockets’ to check for knives.

As a society we can shout and scream at the police, regulate them, scrutinise them, sack a few, bring in external bosses from industry. We can try to ‘re-educate’ them and have an independent complaints system. But unless we look clearly at the real problems street constables and junior detectives face every day, our cities will soon be lawless.


The first thing to understand is that the ‘police’ are not a homogenous group. A response police officer in inner London has little in common with the commissioner or her senior officers, save that they wear a similar uniform. While both groups want to think they are making a difference, the chiefs will be thinking of long-term strategies, managing budgets, building relationships with other government bodies. Occasionally they will be diverted into thinking about some fast-moving issue such as a terrorist event or newspaper criticism of the handling of a major inquiry.

Once dealing with dynamic events is no longer their daily business, police chiefs can forget what it’s like to be a superintendent or inspector. They want good press and they become calculating and political in pursuit of the top job.

The street cops generally come from fairly good homes. Most have decent educations. A lot of them nowadays have been to university or have done a variety of jobs before they joined, from infantrymen in Afghanistan to nurses or restaurant managers. The majority are still white, but that’s no surprise really: most have joined due to having had positive exposure to police officers in the past. A surprising number of police are, like me, related to other police officers or to service personnel.

No one who joins the police would express a racist view when being selected or during training — to express such a view in the workplace would be suicidal to their careers and would at the very least result in several of their colleagues turning on them. So why do so many young black people loathe the police? Why is there so much violence?

It all comes down to what in police circles is known as the ‘Betari box’ of human behaviour. This describes a vicious circle: your behaviour influences my behaviour; my behaviour influences your behaviour.

This is how it works. Imagine a newly minted PC arriving on an inner London borough where black-on-black stabbings and murders are a priority. Together with an experienced colleague, she will approach a pair of known street criminals to ask them what they are doing in a particular location. But as the officers approach, the young men will often start to be abusive, saying: ‘You’re only picking on me because I’m black.’ A big crowd of people will then surround the officers and start to shout, even obstruct them. The police will call for help and help will arrive with sirens blaring; the police will either dominate, or they will run away (withdraw).

After such an encounter, inevitably complaints will be made against the police officers, and after a few more episodes like this, our young officer’s ‘Betari box’ has become fixed. She thinks: if I try to solve problems and keep the black community safe, I’m accused of bigotry. Meanwhile the myth of police racism continues and the black youths at that incident convince themselves that they were picked on in an unjustified search.

It’s often the best young officers who become most disillusioned. I remember one young street crime squad officer in central London who had a prolific arrest rate of criminals. The secret of his success was loitering around Victoria station, learning the known suspects’ faces and observing carefully. It was dangerous and violent work, making arrests in plain clothes next to the live rail, but it was rewarding.

Because his 25 most recent arrests were all black youths, this officer was called in by his superintendent and told he was racially biased. The officer replied: ‘But most of the muggings and snatches in this area are being done by black youths.’ The senior officer said: ‘That’s not the point. I think you need to go on a racial awareness course.’

The superintendent put an adverse comment on the officer’s file and blocked his application for promotion. The officer gave up arresting robbers and became an errand boy for the CID, going out and arresting their burglary suspects identified by fingerprints. Most burglars are white. It was safe work.

When I was a borough commander in west London, I asked the crime analysts to identify the ten most prolific robbers in the area and the ten most violent gang members. When they’d been identified, I stuck their photographs up on the exit door from the station into the police vehicle car park. This was where the PCs drank their tea before going on patrol, so my idea was that this way, even the most idle officers would have to look at and learn the criminals’ faces before they went out on patrol.

Then my senior officer came on a ‘royal visit’. He wanted to know how we did so well at reducing robbery and why we had no youth murders. As I explained our various tactics and we went out of the car park door. He noticed the 20 photos and said: ‘Why have you got all these black youths’ pictures stuck up here? You can’t do that — it sends the wrong message to any visitors.’ When I explained my rationale, my boss replied: ‘Well, take some down and put some white ones up as well.’ But these are the men identified as the most high-risk to the public by our civilian analysts, I answered. I was told: ‘I don’t care. We can’t have this, take them down.’

When my boss left, I ignored his instructions. The safety of the public was more important to me. Though my boss made sure I wasn’t promoted again, we remained a top performing borough, we had no youth murders, and my successor soon inherited the only inner-city borough not to face rioting or looting in 2011.

For many people, the idea that the police are racist fits with their view of history. It’s not all unfounded. They think of the abominations suffered at colonial hands, the terrible experiences of the Windrush generation and the racism of the 1950s and 1960s. It’s a toxic mix.

It is also too often the case now that black fathers are absent, leaving mothers and grandmothers to bring up the kids. Often these women are forced to be away from the children, working all hours in hard low-paid jobs such as carers or cleaners, sometimes doing two jobs or struggling on benefits. Is it any wonder that so many young black boys end up in trouble? So there is no doubt that they suffer social disadvantages. But then so do many poor white children.

The result of all this is that the police have given up being inquisitive. Most people don’t realise the most important quality in a copper is to be nosey. You have got to want to investigate and to get to the bottom of a problem.

If police lose the appetite to investigate, this would be a disaster for black families. It would mean many more mothers would lose their sons to the knife, gun or a lifetime in prison. It would mean that our streets would become scarier, and that county lines gangs would flourish, bringing drugs into our leafy shires and blighting the lives of more black children.

If black lives really mattered, we would change the conditions that result in this carnage. But we don’t. That is real institutional, systemic racism.


Thanks for taking the time to read the above.
Thanks for that, a good read.

I feel like far too many public / government services are 'damned if they do and damned if they dont' - especially the police but less so the NHS.

If the media, both social and the industry, create a situation whereby police are scared to do their jobs properly then we've got a big problem. The cameras may help force police not to do anything dodgy but it's no good if people are editing the footage to create outrage. Then when there's a review no-one believes the response. Police will just stop engaging and crime will go unchecked.
 
I must speak up for the BBC after some comments on this. The story ws immediately high profile because Linford Christie made public claims about it and it involved two current athletes. Once broken on social media the traditional media are bound to cover it.

I confess I have encountered a few bad eggs in the police force in my time though I have never believed them typical. I have had friends, who were much more ready to condemn the police without question and have had arguments over that. I watched those reports of this recent encounter on the BBC and my immediate response after viewing was to keep my own counsel. I did not think I had been presented with an anti police report and was certainly not persuaded that the police were clearly in the wrong.

Two problems: first nearly all stories now begin on social media with handheld footage, no context and a definite angle. Second we haven't yet learned how to process this sort of stuff and tend to take a side instinctively. The traditional media gets the blame from both sides but is they, who usually end up telling the full tale.
 
"My life and those around me changed forever on July 7 2005. I believe in the power and brilliance of humanity - my life was saved by strangers, people who never gave up, people who risked their own lives to save mine.
To them, I was a precious human life - my rescue wasn't dependent on my faith, my colour, my gender or wealth."

Gill Hicks, who's life was saved by a police officer

These incredible words could not be more relevant right now.
 
I must speak up for the BBC after some comments on this. The story ws immediately high profile because Linford Christie made public claims about it and it involved two current athletes. Once broken on social media the traditional media are bound to cover it.

I confess I have encountered a few bad eggs in the police force in my time though I have never believed them typical. I have had friends, who were much more ready to condemn the police without question and have had arguments over that. I watched those reports of this recent encounter on the BBC and my immediate response after viewing was to keep my own counsel. I did not think I had been presented with an anti police report and was certainly not persuaded that the police were clearly in the wrong.

Two problems: first nearly all stories now begin on social media with handheld footage, no context and a definite angle. Second we haven't yet learned how to process this sort of stuff and tend to take a side instinctively. The traditional media gets the blame from both sides but is they, who usually end up telling the full tale.

Thing about the news item on the BBC 6pm news is that the full circumstances had been published this morning and were highlighted by the Met on their website. Up to seven officers had imagery on their respective body cameras so were able to piece together the whole event with clarity - self protection by video ! Had the BBC put the two and two together they would clearly have identified the story for what it is, a non-story and certainly not worthy of National, high-profile reporting. BBC and the Met Media Services Dept are in daily contact yet the BBC still decided to show, in isolation, the images taken by the car`s occupant/s. Mischievous by the BBC IMO, they had a chance to tell the full tale but chose not to. As you say, Linford Christie`s input was factor. But, he clearly jumped in without knowing the circumstances, realising that anything he says will get reported. I`m sticking to my claim of Lazy reporting on this one, Jogills.
 
The people in the car traveled along the wrong side of the street, took short cut rat-runs and failed to stop for police when required to do so. Not only did they fail to comply they accelerated away from the scene ! . When they came to a stop and police officers got out of their van the occupants of the car refused to get out.

From the account of the female occupant and notwithstanding that the police didn`t get a look at how many occupants there were etc (due to the shaded windows of the car) it was clear that any police officer worth their salt would have been suspicious about the vehicle, followed it and stopped it.

Bearing in mind that the vehicle had already made-off from police it was appropriate that the occupants were placed in handcuffs - to stop them making off again. After the occupants gave satisfactory accounts they were allowed to get on with their day.

This really is a load of fuss about nothing and just the sort of tripe that the media love to make a big issue of - look at the official Met account on their website if you have any doubts. The officers were wearing cameras and captured all of the circumstances. Lazy reporting, especially by the BBC.
Youll have to excuse me for asking, but i have maybe only seen some of the story here. I know the athlete (cant remember her name) claimed she hadnt sped up at all or driven erratically. But the police officer is claiming they did and using it as a reason when he stopped them.

Is there any proof they did? Ive no reason to believe one or the other, i just wondered if others had seen proof either way other than just trusting the athlete (who could well be lying) or the police officers who could equally have just made it up as a reason to stop them. Both are not outside the realms of possibility unless theres proof.
 
Youll have to excuse me for asking, but i have maybe only seen some of the story here. I know the athlete (cant remember her name) claimed she hadnt sped up at all or driven erratically. But the police officer is claiming they did and using it as a reason when he stopped them.

Is there any proof they did? Ive no reason to believe one or the other, i just wondered if others had seen proof either way other than just trusting the athlete (who could well be lying) or the police officers who could equally have just made it up as a reason to stop them. Both are not outside the realms of possibility unless theres proof.


Hello AK, the Met officers, think there were six or seven of them in a van, had body-worn cameras, their vehicle may also have had a camera fitted (don`t know- just a guess about the vehicle). They were patrolling the area as a result of recent high crime there. The Met, it`s own Professional Standards people, have viewed the police video footage which supports the officers` evidence. I posted earlier the sequence of events - which the female athlete also described, though she missed some bits out for some reason, - including driving on the wrong side of the road (I believe to get ahead of stationary traffic to make a right turn) failing to stop for police, then making off at speed and refusing to get out of their car. Ample justification for the stop and police action. It`s a non-story.
 
Hello AK, the Met officers, think there were six or seven of them in a van, had body-worn cameras, their vehicle may also have had a camera fitted (don`t know- just a guess about the vehicle). They were patrolling the area as a result of recent high crime there. The Met, it`s own Professional Standards people, have viewed the police video footage which supports the officers` evidence. I posted earlier the sequence of events - which the female athlete also described, though she missed some bits out for some reason, - including driving on the wrong side of the road (I believe to get ahead of stationary traffic to make a right turn) failing to stop for police, then making off at speed and refusing to get out of their car. Ample justification for the stop and police action. It`s a non-story.
The Internet, mainly social media, is littered with "partial video evidence" of Police wrongdoing which is later proved wrong by police body worn video evidence that shows the full incident. People are slowly getting wise to this and the number of malicious allegations are dropping rapidly. Young Ms Williams obviously hasn't kept up with this news.
Many officers were worried when BWV first came in as it felt a bit like Big Brother but complaints are being massively disproved by their content so they are now seen as a great bit of kit.