Brexit Day! | Page 135 | Vital Football

Brexit Day!

Status
Not open for further replies.
InvincibleBrianMan said:
Am I anti British for condemning the crimes we committed in India when 20 million were starved to death under British rule wile we exported the crops that would feed them back to europe? Would an American be anti-American for denouncing the massacre in Jakarta where up to a million socialists were "disappeared" and another million jailed to install a right wing dictatorship?

Don't make me laugh by trying to call me anti-Semetic for pointing a finger at the right-wing extremists of Israel.

And I didn't notice you biting your tongue much when you were whinging about the Labour leadership or refusing to put up Labour posters for fear of flying bricks.

I also lived through 13 years of labour incrementalism where we failed to deliver what could have been a massive consolidation for the rights and wellbeing of the working and middle classes (but instead ponced about with third way neoliberalism and squandered our mandate)
Click to expand...
1593153093863.png
 
Basha73 said:
Because we are an island? Because over the centuries we have fought with just about everyone in Europe? Or is it just because it’s who we are?

Even when we were in the EU there was a them and us feel to our dealings.
Click to expand...

Encouraged and stoked by those on the right. Much easier to blame things on others.

Metric martyrs...
 
JC21 said:
That really ISN'T backing it up with figures. Firstly it isn't as simple as voting for a 'remain' or 'leave' party; I'm proof of that because I voted to leave but also voted Labour.

we really are going over old ground here but it is constituencies that matter in our electoral system and when Brexit is the main topic, you will never win a general election by targeting the 1/3 remain constituencies and telling the 2/3 leave constituencies they were thick, racist and didn't know what they voted for.

Please, Pope, just admit that the PV was political suicide (unless of course the aim was to get rid of Corbyn)
Click to expand...

It wasnt. You forget that had labour have chosen brexit they would have lost london.

It is popular to hate London, fashionable even but labout could not have won the vote. This has to be laid at the door of JC who failed to get a unified position and indeed failed to do the right thing. Said it before brexit is profoundly anti-socialist.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
At least one of the key Jewish associations branded it anti Semitic pretty much immediately and claimed it as a false conspiracy theory. Given the stated mission to repair relations with said associations it was inevitable. I agree she simply hadn't read it (neither did i in full) but a quick skim read finds that passage early on in the article.

If you think it's political correctness gone mad, take it up with the Jewish associations.

As for the left biting it's tongue while the right do not... I don't recognise the latter part of that at all.

I loved through 13 years of Labour government in which I knew and met plenty of left wingers who constantly griped that Blair wasn't true labour (and now label him a murderer) or who left the party altogether.

Meanwhile I see the right if the party accepting Corbyn failing in two elections with the only significant rebellion coming after the Brexit referendum betrayal. The fact that people like me largely bit our tongues and voted for him twice after that just doesn't tally with your representations
Click to expand...

Imo you both have a point
 
radfordinlondon said:
It wasnt. You forget that had labour have chosen brexit they would have lost london.

It is popular to hate London, fashionable even but labout could not have won the vote. This has to be laid at the door of JC who failed to get a unified position and indeed failed to do the right thing. Said it before brexit is profoundly anti-socialist.
Click to expand...

Brexit is socialist. Correction , the idea of Brexit is socialist. To say it isn't is just plain daft.
 
JC21 said:
No derision in the use of the word 'teacher' at all. I'm simply pointing out that politics is more their area of expertise and while Pope is sat teaching kids about General Custer, these MPs were actually campaigning in their constituencies for weeks on end.

I don't recall ever picking you on grammar, it's not something I generally do. I picked Pope up on his just to highlight the bollocks he was talking.

Come on, Pope, at least tell us, roughly,, how many doors did you knock on?
Click to expand...
There you go again. Spurious reference to teaching kids about General Custer. Pope has a degree ( so i am led to believe) and has chosen teaching as a profession, i have run a company. You love to ask people to answer questions so i will again ask you one. What have you done in life? and by the way you did have a go at my grammar. Memory loss? I would get that checked out.
 
InvincibleBrianMan said:
Am I anti British for condemning the crimes we committed in India when 20 million were starved to death under British rule wile we exported the crops that would feed them back to europe? Would an American be anti-American for denouncing the massacre in Jakarta where up to a million socialists were "disappeared" and another million jailed to install a right wing dictatorship?

Don't make me laugh by trying to call me anti-Semetic for pointing a finger at the right-wing extremists of Israel.

And I didn't notice you biting your tongue much when you were whinging about the Labour leadership or refusing to put up Labour posters for fear of flying bricks.

I also lived through 13 years of labour incrementalism where we failed to deliver what could have been a massive consolidation for the rights and wellbeing of the working and middle classes (but instead ponced about with third way neoliberalism and squandered our mandate)
Click to expand...
Get off your high horse chap.

I didn't call you anti Semitic and I'm not really sure how on earth you would extrapolate that from my post.

I posted facts. One of the Jewish association criticised the article and retweet as an anti Jewish conspiracy theory. That they did so is a fact. I am not making a value judgement as to whether that view is correct or not.
 
jbacsta said:
There you go again. Spurious reference to teaching kids about General Custer. Pope has a degree ( so i am led to believe) and has chosen teaching as a profession, i have run a company. You love to ask people to answer questions so i will again ask you one. What have you done in life? and by the way you did have a go at my grammar. Memory loss? I would get that checked out.
Click to expand...

I genuinely think you've got me mixed up with someone else. I did a search for "grammar" and your username and the only thing that comes up is YOU pulling someone up on their grammar. Please show me where I pulled you up on yours if I actually did.

As for "what have I done in my life?", what relevance is that to anything. Pope's a teacher - WOW!, you've got a company - GREAT! It's a debate about how the Brexit strategy killed off any hope a Labour victory, not 'This is your life'!
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Get off your high horse chap.

I didn't call you anti Semitic and I'm not really sure how on earth you would extrapolate that from my post.

I posted facts. One of the Jewish association criticised the article and retweet as an anti Jewish conspiracy theory. That they did so is a fact. I am not making a value judgement as to whether that view is correct or not.
Click to expand...
I will get down from my high horse just as soon as you dismount from that giraffe chap.
 
JC21 said:
I genuinely think you've got me mixed up with someone else. I did a search for "grammar" and your username and the only thing that comes up is YOU pulling someone up on their grammar. Please show me where I pulled you up on yours if I actually did.

As for "what have I done in my life?", what relevance is that to anything. Pope's a teacher - WOW!, you've got a company - GREAT! It's a debate about how the Brexit strategy killed off any hope a Labour victory, not 'This is your life'!
Click to expand...
Labour didn’t have a Brexit strategy. JC point blank refused to get off the fence and that cost votes

There were three ways he could have gone in my view:

Become another Brexit party and duke it out with the Tories, UKIP etc for their share of voters while hoping to keep/win a share of the remain voters.

Champion Remain and try and hoover up those voters with minimal opposition from Lib Dem’s etc

or

Sit on the fence and give the Tories the biggest landslide possible.

Had he chosen option one I am not convinced he would have done much better but at least voters would have known where they stood.

Option two was probably the best bet for labour, combined with COs suggestion of championing a soft Brexit which would have likely appealed to the silent majority.

That’s my 2p worth anyway.

As for knocking on doors, who the fuck cares? It’s totally irrelevant to the debate and just makes you look childish and petty.
 
Basha73 said:
Labour didn’t have a Brexit strategy. JC point blank refused to get off the fence and that cost votes

There were three ways he could have gone in my view:

Become another Brexit party and duke it out with the Tories, UKIP etc for their share of voters while hoping to keep/win a share of the remain voters.

Champion Remain and try and hoover up those voters with minimal opposition from Lib Dem’s etc

or

Sit on the fence and give the Tories the biggest landslide possible.

Had he chosen option one I am not convinced he would have done much better but at least voters would have known where they stood.

Option two was probably the best bet for labour, combined with COs suggestion of championing a soft Brexit which would have likely appealed to the silent majority.

That’s my 2p worth anyway.

As for knocking on doors, who the fuck cares? It’s totally irrelevant to the debate and just makes you look childish and petty.
Click to expand...

If you don't understand why I'm asking Pope how many doors he knocked on then I suggest you keep out of that bit of it.

Labour did have strategy in the end and that was the catastrophic 'People's Vote'. I'd bet my life that if it was Richard Burgon and not Keir Starmer that was responsible for it then Pope would be arguing it was a terrible election strategy.
 
radfordinlondon said:
No your logic is daft. How is it socialist to leave a union? Selling brexit as a socialist project lmao, i think you are still bored
Click to expand...
If the EU and its treaties didn't enshrine neoliberalism/capitalism then you'd have a point but I can assure you that there is nothing 'socialist' about the staying in any kind of 'union' that imposes these neoliberal/capitalist rules.

I bet you couldn't name one high profile, widely renowned 'socialist' that supports the EU.
 
radfordinlondon said:
No your logic is daft. How is it socialist to leave a union? Selling brexit as a socialist project lmao, i think you are still bored
Click to expand...

Quite a significant part of the Trade Union Movement support TUAEU. Trade Union Against European Union. Reason, the European Union is non socialist in concept and neoliberal in delivery. The EU has done very well in selling it self as a left of centre enterprise but it is protectionist, supports large companies at the expense of small and elitist. For those that feel the EU supports equality, name me one black commissioner. In fact what is the % of black MEP’s. You can all scuttle off to Mr Google to check, but can you think of one off the top of your head?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.