Brexit Day! | Page 134 | Vital Football

Brexit Day!

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Pope John XXIII said:
And here we go.

Ask an open question. Close it with ridiculous, biased choices based on your agenda, then accuse the person who rightly refuses to engage with your fantasy of avoiding the question.

I'm not avoiding your question, but I'm not going to accept that the only choices available are the two that you have chosen in order to declare a fait accompli
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So why are Emma Lewell and Laura Smith, sitting MPs that went out campaigning in the North East (for THEIR jobs) wrong and Pope, a history teacher from Gedling, right?
 
Pope John XXIII said:
You are under no compunction nor requirement to believe I am
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What a weird answer!!!! I'm asking why YOU think you are right. How many doors did you knock on in South Shields or Crewe and Nantwich?

How many did you knock on in Gedling for that matter?
 
JC21 said:
What a weird answer!!!! I'm asking why YOU think you are right. How many doors did you knock on in South Shields or Crewe and Nantwich?

How many did you knock on in Gedling for that matter?
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I assume you knocked on a fair few for Corbyn yourself if you are asking me that question

I've told you why I think I am right
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I assume you knocked on a fair few for Corbyn yourself if you are asking me that question

I've told you why I think I am right
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I didn't knock on a single door, never have, never will.

How many did you knock on?

You still maintaining that you know the voters of South Shields and Crewe and Nantwich more than the (at the time) sitting Labour MPs?
 
JC21 said:
I didn't knock on a single door, never have, never will.

How many did you knock on?

You still maintaining that you know the voters of South Shields and Crewe and Nantwich more than the (at the time) sitting Labour MPs?
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Not a single door for Corbyn.

He got my vote, three times. That's more than he deserved.

You haven't really got much of a leg to stand on using "you didn't knock on any doors" as an attack line when you did fuck all yourself. I suspect your mate DF didn't knock on any doors either, unless they were properties he owned.

And I'm not talking about voters in specific areas, I am talking about the country nationally, including Scotland and Wales (which you seek to forget exists) and Tory areas. Broad brush strokes, of course. But trying to dodge a salient point by zeroing in on one or two areas that you know no more about than I do is not a particularly convincing argument IMO
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Not a single door for Corbyn.

He got my vote, three times. That's more than he deserved.

You haven't really got much of a leg to stand on using "you didn't knock on any doors" as an attack line when you did fuck all yourself. I suspect your mate DF didn't knock on any doors either, unless they were properties he owned.

And I'm not talking about voters in specific areas, I am talking about the country nationally, including Scotland and Wales (which you seek to forget exists) and Tory areas. Broad brush strokes, of course. But trying to dodge a salient point by zeroing in on one or two areas that you know no more about than I do is not a particularly convincing argument IMO
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'my mate', you fucking idiot. He's not my mate, he's got more in common with you than me. Even if he was a mate, why try and use it as some kind of insult?

No, I didn't knock on a single door, just like the vast majority of people/voters in this country.

How many did you knock on?

How can you talk about 'nationally'? Nationally the LP was closer to power when they were pretending to respect the referendum result.

I'll ask again, how many doors did you knock on? 1, 2 10, 20, 100, 1000?

What did you say to them to convince them that Corbyn was the best man for the job? IF you did knock on any doors and did you did encounter a dislike for him then I hope you tried to convince them a lot more than you did people on this forum, for instance?

How many doors, roughly or is it more bullshit from you like your kids 'freedom and rights' like I called you out on the other night with no reply (shock!)
 
JC21 said:
'my mate', you fucking idiot. He's not my mate, he's got more in common with you than me. Even if he was a mate, why try and use it as some kind of insult?

No, I didn't knock on a single door, just like the vast majority of people/voters in this country.

How many did you knock on?

How can you talk about 'nationally'? Nationally the LP was closer to power when they were pretending to respect the referendum result.

I'll ask again, how many doors did you knock on? 1, 2 10, 20, 100, 1000?

What did you say to them to convince them that Corbyn was the best man for the job? IF you did knock on any doors and did you did encounter a dislike for him then I hope you tried to convince them a lot more than you did people on this forum, for instance?

How many doors, roughly or is it more bullshit from you like your kids 'freedom and rights' like I called you out on the other night with no reply (shock!)
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I answered you in the first line of my previous post. You just weren't reading properly. Two paragraphs wasted because you just didn't read
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I answered you in the first line of my previous post. You just weren't reading properly. Two paragraphs wasted because you just didn't read
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This?

"Not a single door for Corbyn."

You answered in the 'first line' but wasted 'two paragraphs'

Thank fuck you only teach history where you argue amongst yourselves whose 'history' is right and not English!!!
 
JC21 said:
This?

"Not a single door for Corbyn."

You answered in the 'first line' but wasted 'two paragraphs'

Thank fuck you only teach history where you argue amongst yourselves whose 'history' is right and not English!!!
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This is really boring.

I'm going back to reading my book. It's not a page turner but bloody hell, it's a lot more interesting than watching you go round in angry circles.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Not convinced about that, but if that were true I would like to congratulate her on showing exactly the level of interest and committment to her education brief as most Tory Education Secretaries.

She'll go to the back benches where she can maybe lend a brain cell to Richard Burgon
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Starmer has the Left of the Party worried; he has made far too good a start and looks competent, a quality they despise.

For all of their nice words, the Left have only one Policy, and that is to remain in opposition where they can promise the earth without having to deliver.

The last thing they need is a Leader who has a grip on things and a degree of discipline in the Party.

The temptation to start a fight was too good to resist; this will now spill over to the NEC.
 
Have to confess that I would have been sorely tempted to have voted for a party supporting a soft Brexit. I think the vote was wrong, sad and repugnant at times but my side lost (in no small part due to Remain's woeful campaign) and once we had I think the only honourable course was to debate the type of withdrawal agreement we wanted.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Have to confess that I would have been sorely tempted to have voted for a party supporting a soft Brexit. I think the vote was wrong, sad and repugnant at times but my side lost (in no small part due to Remain's woeful campaign) and once we had I think the only honourable course was to debate the type of withdrawal agreement we wanted.
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I understand and respect this argument.
 
mao tse tung said:
Starmer has the Left of the Party worried; he has made far too good a start and looks competent, a quality they despise.

For all of their nice words, the Left have only one Policy, and that is to remain in opposition where they can promise the earth without having to deliver.

The last thing they need is a Leader who has a grip on things and a degree of discipline in the Party.

The temptation to start a fight was too good to resist; this will now spill over to the NEC.
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A sad caricature of the "Left". (and a very common one) There are in reality far more on the left who constantly bite their tongue for the sake of unity than dare to actually defend themselves from centrist / right wing smears. For example:

RLB has been sacked for not reading what she tweeted. (stupid thing to do) but there certainly is "a lobby" intent on misrepresenting anything anyone deemed "Left" says.

Maxine Peake claimed that the Israeli security services gave seminars on restraining by kneeling on the necks of detainees. Is that true or just a wild conspiracy theory? There are loads of photos showing (what are purported to be) IDF forces using exactly the same method of restraint that killed George Floyd on Lebanese detainees that have emerged since Floyds death.

There are also plenty of confirmed reports verifying that US police (including those from Minnesota) were / are trained by Israel.

Should I (a Jewish leftist) be supportive of Starmer over RLB's sacking? Or should I try to point out the hypocrisy in the way the left are made to walk the line when the right are not?

For the record, I think Starmer made the only politically acceptable choice he could because of RLB's lack of judgement. However, that yet again leaves the left in a position of having to "button it". for the good of the party only for the right of the party (and well beyond) to use this as another stick to beat the left with. I am personally sick of having to march to the tune of the right's drum for fear of being labeled a conspiracy theorist, anti-Semite, terrorist supporter etc. etc.

The pressure on the neck of the left is being applied from somewhere and Keir Starmer cannot afford to get the nickname: Der Stürmer now can he?

Its political correctness gone mad, but don't mention the war... I did one time but I think I got away with it?
 
InvincibleBrianMan said:
A sad caricature of the "Left". (and a very common one) There are in reality far more on the left who constantly bite their tongue for the sake of unity than dare to actually defend themselves from centrist / right wing smears. For example:

RLB has been sacked for not reading what she tweeted. (stupid thing to do) but there certainly is "a lobby" intent on misrepresenting anything anyone deemed "Left" says.

Maxine Peake claimed that the Israeli security services gave seminars on restraining by kneeling on the necks of detainees. Is that true or just a wild conspiracy theory? There are loads of photos showing (what are purported to be) IDF forces using exactly the same method of restraint that killed George Floyd on Lebanese detainees that have emerged since Floyds death.

There are also plenty of confirmed reports verifying that US police (including those from Minnesota) were / are trained by Israel.

Should I (a Jewish leftist) be supportive of Starmer over RLB's sacking? Or should I try to point out the hypocrisy in the way the left are made to walk the line when the right are not?

For the record, I think Starmer made the only politically acceptable choice he could because of RLB's lack of judgement. However, that yet again leaves the left in a position of having to "button it". for the good of the party only for the right of the party (and well beyond) to use this as another stick to beat the left with. I am personally sick of having to march to the tune of the right's drum for fear of being labeled a conspiracy theorist, anti-Semite, terrorist supporter etc. etc.

The pressure on the neck of the left is being applied from somewhere and Keir Starmer cannot afford to get the nickname: Der Stürmer now can he?

Its political correctness gone mad, but don't mention the war... I did one time but I think I got away with it?
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At least one of the key Jewish associations branded it anti Semitic pretty much immediately and claimed it as a false conspiracy theory. Given the stated mission to repair relations with said associations it was inevitable. I agree she simply hadn't read it (neither did i in full) but a quick skim read finds that passage early on in the article.

If you think it's political correctness gone mad, take it up with the Jewish associations.

As for the left biting it's tongue while the right do not... I don't recognise the latter part of that at all.

I loved through 13 years of Labour government in which I knew and met plenty of left wingers who constantly griped that Blair wasn't true labour (and now label him a murderer) or who left the party altogether.

Meanwhile I see the right if the party accepting Corbyn failing in two elections with the only significant rebellion coming after the Brexit referendum betrayal. The fact that people like me largely bit our tongues and voted for him twice after that just doesn't tally with your representations
 
Pope John XXIII said:
At least one of the key Jewish associations branded it anti Semitic pretty much immediately and claimed it as a false conspiracy theory. Given the stated mission to repair relations with said associations it was inevitable. I agree she simply hadn't read it (neither did i in full) but a quick skim read finds that passage early on in the article.

If you think it's political correctness gone mad, take it up with the Jewish associations.

As for the left biting it's tongue while the right do not... I don't recognise the latter part of that at all.

I loved through 13 years of Labour government in which I knew and met plenty of left wingers who constantly griped that Blair wasn't true labour (and now label him a murderer) or who left the party altogether.

Meanwhile I see the right if the party accepting Corbyn failing in two elections with the only significant rebellion coming after the Brexit referendum betrayal. The fact that people like me largely bit our tongues and voted for him twice after that just doesn't tally with your representations
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Am I anti British for condemning the crimes we committed in India when 20 million were starved to death under British rule wile we exported the crops that would feed them back to europe? Would an American be anti-American for denouncing the massacre in Jakarta where up to a million socialists were "disappeared" and another million jailed to install a right wing dictatorship?

Don't make me laugh by trying to call me anti-Semetic for pointing a finger at the right-wing extremists of Israel.

And I didn't notice you biting your tongue much when you were whinging about the Labour leadership or refusing to put up Labour posters for fear of flying bricks.

I also lived through 13 years of labour incrementalism where we failed to deliver what could have been a massive consolidation for the rights and wellbeing of the working and middle classes (but instead ponced about with third way neoliberalism and squandered our mandate)
 
jbacsta said:
You keep using the word teacher as a term of derision, You also had a go at some of my grammar. What have you done in life other than being a labour party supporter?
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No derision in the use of the word 'teacher' at all. I'm simply pointing out that politics is more their area of expertise and while Pope is sat teaching kids about General Custer, these MPs were actually campaigning in their constituencies for weeks on end.

I don't recall ever picking you on grammar, it's not something I generally do. I picked Pope up on his just to highlight the bollocks he was talking.

Come on, Pope, at least tell us, roughly,, how many doors did you knock on?
 
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