Brexit Day! | Page 137 | Vital Football

Brexit Day!

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JC21 said:
I've got no problem with you commenting but when you're having a go at me when you don't even know the background to my comments then I'll say something back. And I'd still like to know how many doors Pope knocked on.

I'm really arguing the second point to be honest. The previous election we had a strategy which was to respect the referendum result (unfortunately many people didn't believe Labour would keep to this, and they were right). The eventual PV position came as a result of the likes of Watson, Starmer, Kinnock, Umunna, Thornberry, etc, and even McDonnell in the end constantly undermining the leader/party/position. The longer that went on the less the public believed Labour would leave the EU which led to Corbyn/Labour to basically having no choice but to back the PV.
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If you think that’s having a go, you really have lived a sheltered life. If you want to carry on being a child though...

Most voters didn’t give a shit what was going on in the background. All people wanted was a coherent strategy. Regardless of any infighting, that strategy should have come from the top and it just didn’t. People can try and exempt Corbyn all they want but his record shows he was totally ineffective and that’s why people chose a complete liar over him.
 
Basha73 said:
If you think that’s having a go, you really have lived a sheltered life. If you want to carry on being a child though...

Most voters didn’t give a shit what was going on in the background. All people wanted was a coherent strategy. Regardless of any infighting, that strategy should have come from the top and it just didn’t. People can try and exempt Corbyn all they want but his record shows he was totally ineffective and that’s why people chose a complete liar over him.
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:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Yeah, I've lived a proper sheltered life!!! Of course calling me childish and petty is having a go. I didn't say it bothered me in the slightest, did I?

It really is simple, most constituencies wanted Brexit, Labour wasn't going to deliver that. Pope even said as much himself by saying the Tories got elected on slogans like "Get Brexit Done". The vast majority of people can see that the last 2 elections have been Brexit elections. The first one, Labour wasn't trusted to deliver it, the second (in which they did considerably worse) they flatly refused to deliver it.
 
JC21 said:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Yeah, I've lived a proper sheltered life!!! Of course calling me childish and petty is having a go. I didn't say it bothered me in the slightest, did I?

It really is simple, most constituencies wanted Brexit, Labour wasn't going to deliver that. Pope even said as much himself by saying the Tories got elected on slogans like "Get Brexit Done". The vast majority of people can see that the last 2 elections have been Brexit elections. The first one, Labour wasn't trusted to deliver it, the second (in which they did considerably worse) they flatly refused to deliver it.
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Oh dear...

Labour had no real position during the Brexit vote. They continued to have no real position right until the moment they were slaughtered in the election.

Personally I wouldn’t call the second election a Brexit election but it was a continuation of a theme. The Tories were more coherent and what they did say about policies seemed more believable than anything Labour had to say which is quite frankly ridiculous.

The election prior to Brexit was, in my mind anyway, nothing to do with Brexit. The offer of a vote was there but I honestly don’t remember it swaying most of the voters who, much like Corbyn, thought that Milliband was useless.
 
Basha73 said:
Oh dear...

Labour had no real position during the Brexit vote. They continued to have no real position right until the moment they were slaughtered in the election.

Personally I wouldn’t call the second election a Brexit election but it was a continuation of a theme. The Tories were more coherent and what they did say about policies seemed more believable than anything Labour had to say which is quite frankly ridiculous.

The election prior to Brexit was, in my mind anyway, nothing to do with Brexit. The offer of a vote was there but I honestly don’t remember it swaying most of the voters who, much like Corbyn, thought that Milliband was useless.
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If the second election wasn't a Brexit election then why did the Tories choose the slogan "Get Brexit Done"?

I guess nobody will ever know but I'd argue that if Tories and Boris were for the PV and Corbyn/Labour we "Get Brexit Done" then we'd have a different PM now
 
........having said that, I really don't want to go over it again. It was only Pope's comment last night that dragged me back into this because you can't, on one hand, say Brexit wasn't an issue at the election and then on the other say the Tories won it with "Get Brexit Done"
 
JC21 said:
........having said that, I really don't want to go over it again. It was only Pope's comment last night that dragged me back into this because you can't, on one hand, say Brexit wasn't an issue at the election and then on the other say the Tories won it with "Get Brexit Done"
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I can see what you are saying and that’s why I think it was more a continuation of the vote than an actual Brexit election. The Tories campaigned where they were strongest and Labour just didn’t have a clue what issues they should have been fighting

If the Tories had come up with the PV then I think they would have still won albeit by a lesser margin because Labour stayed on the fence too long and when they did finally climb off it their strategy was too vague to really appeal to anyone.

Not that it would have ever happened of course...
 
strettea red said:
As a singular issue regarding climate this is hard to disagree with, but in light of the fallout from COVID this, in my opinion is secondary if not tertiary in urgent priorities. But if any post COVID investment is wisely considered, there is a good chance we can attack all matters ‘in the round’
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Disagree on the priorities, however I suspect we are on a similar page with this being a golden opportunity to invest in green technology to lead us out of recession.
 
Polly 433 said:
Quite a significant part of the Trade Union Movement support TUAEU. Trade Union Against European Union. Reason, the European Union is non socialist in concept and neoliberal in delivery. The EU has done very well in selling it self as a left of centre enterprise but it is protectionist, supports large companies at the expense of small and elitist. For those that feel the EU supports equality, name me one black commissioner. In fact what is the % of black MEP’s. You can all scuttle off to Mr Google to check, but can you think of one off the top of your head?
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So let me get this right; the EU pick and choose which MEPs and Commissioners they want; is that the premise of your argument?

Of course the Trade Unions dislike the EU; they dislike the EU for the very same reasons that Corbyn and his cronies dislike the EU; they are a barrier to all of the fucking crazy schemes they dream up like mass Nationalisation funded from the Public purse.

The EU does not sell itself as a Left of Centre enterprise; how can it, it has no control over the member state elections?

The various factions and Groupings within the EU Parliament are loose alliances of MEPs the majority of which appear to be anything but Left of centre.

And of course it is protectionist; it is protectionist in very much the same way as the USA and China are; if you seriously think that the UK will get any kind of favourable deal with either the USA or China once they are fully divorced from the EU, then you are dreaming.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Disagree on the priorities, however I suspect we are on a similar page with this being a golden opportunity to invest in green technology to lead us out of recession.
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It certainly presents a golden opportunity but I fear it will be totally missed.

Where will the funds come from to invest in a greener future?

From the same old sources they have come from in the very recent past; companies like Shell and BP who are spending record amounts on the green vista that everyone wants.

In the absence of Government spending there will be an even greater reliance on these Companies; that will mean doing things at their pace, which is not quick enough and never has been.
 
JC21 said:
If the EU and its treaties didn't enshrine neoliberalism/capitalism then you'd have a point but I can assure you that there is nothing 'socialist' about the staying in any kind of 'union' that imposes these neoliberal/capitalist rules.

I bet you couldn't name one high profile, widely renowned 'socialist' that supports the EU.
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So now you want an elite socialist?
 
Great news. The European Space Agency has selected Leicester for its new space tech incubation centre. Expected to create 2,500 jobs, the £100m-plus Space Park Leicester development has already attracted global companies including Lockheed Martin, Thales, Airbus and Hewlett Packard
 
strettea red said:
This 'union' is a capitalist club.
You are stark raving bonkers if you think the EU is a socialist project.

You need to read up what a socialist is, or call yourself something else.
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It is exactly what i said it was- an agreement between members that sees a pact between business, which gets a single market and workers who get freedom of movement and various protections. To imagine the EU as a monolith either socialist or capitalist is to completely and fundamentally misunderstand how it was formed and what drove its development.

Not sure how useful 20th century labels are in the 21st century m8
 
mao tse tung said:
So let me get this right; the EU pick and choose which MEPs and Commissioners they want; is that the premise of your argument?

Of course the Trade Unions dislike the EU; they dislike the EU for the very same reasons that Corbyn and his cronies dislike the EU; they are a barrier to all of the fucking crazy schemes they dream up like mass Nationalisation funded from the Public purse.

The EU does not sell itself as a Left of Centre enterprise; how can it, it has no control over the member state elections?

The various factions and Groupings within the EU Parliament are loose alliances of MEPs the majority of which appear to be anything but Left of centre.

And of course it is protectionist; it is protectionist in very much the same way as the USA and China are; if you seriously think that the UK will get any kind of favourable deal with either the USA or China once they are fully divorced from the EU, then you are dreaming.
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He also forgets about the european trade union, the peak organisation for unions. As with the corporates, they have a strong and powerful lobby.
 
JC21 said:
I didn't really ask for anything but if I did, what did you actually give me? Certainly not a name
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Thats because i am not a performing seal and in any case your criteria was far too vague- how the hell do i know what you consider well know- is it publication or social media and on and on fam.
 
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