Race Issues/Riots/Protests/BLM | Page 67 | Vital Football

Race Issues/Riots/Protests/BLM

Pangloss said:
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Dont know who he is but seems very intelligent.
Wouldnt it be nice if everyone was as realistic and as level headed.
There are many many black people coming out now against black lives matter. Ironically alot of the black gangster rappers have voiced an opinion very similar to this man.
 
I actually follow him on twitter and watched his interview with Joe Rogan. I agree and disagree with him on numerous issues. For example, I agree with some of his views on transgender people i.e. that transgendered men shouldnt be allowed to compete with people who were biologically born a woman.

To be real with everyone these topics are incredibly difficult to talk about because if you don't word sentences above like I did you'll be corrected to death.

He's right about other things too like some liberal white people are much more prejudice than the average person. My GFs friend who is white expressed huge concerns about me because I am white. Basically telling my GF she should stick to her community because white men are suppressing her community. She's called me girlfriend 'white performing' as if its not normal for my GF to be a regular person.

My GF is a psychologist and I've often told her a reason I think its so difficult to have some of these conversations is because you're forced to use either unnatural language or language that implies the person is bad or wrong. Its very academic and its language police-type stuff too, it does remind me of 1984.

White Privilege is a key example. We all have privilege but its a triggering word because its determined at birth and we've barely any control over it. Nevertheless if you can shift your frame of mind you'll agree that you have privilege whether it is being born into a wealthy family, being born fully able-bodied or whatever else and some of us don't have those privileges.

I know for me white privilege was really a trigger because (a) I am not American and didnt grow up in America, (b) I've never knowingly put down or oppressed anyone, (c) I've been to college, my work is not even something you can learn to be in America and I paid my way to get to America yet because I am a straight white male it is assumed the system is set up for me to profit.

I totally understand the difficulty with all of this.

I would start thinking about the questions you're asking and maybe asking yourself. Then thinking about why it is so uncomfortable to you because a lot of this is still really uncomfortable to me too. The system affects us all in different ways we're just seen to have it better because we're white. And a lot of us do have it better and I think that comes down to money just as much as race but I lifting thousands out of their situation still doesnt change things enough. There are enough examples of it.

Also I am not trying to be preachy or arrogant or anything like that. Just hoping to give you an idea of what the left is like and where I get it but also might not agree with or where I've had trouble with it. Another problem you'll find is words matter more than context which again is bizarre.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
Yeah, very relevant, and on the same type of thing, a friend of mine is a schoolteacher, who is very much into social justice issues, and when #MeToo was "in", she did studies showing how little boys were little monsters and girls were princesses and this needs to be changed.

Now that race is the thing, she has been sharing studies showing how young white children (around 5 or whatever) tend to stick together and not mingle as much with other races in their classrooms. Even if this is true, so fucking what? They're children!

You mentioned nature, and I totally agree. We have a tendency to stick to our own, look at any major cities, they will have Chinatowns, Irish quarters, Muslim areas, etc. Why is this a bad thing? Who ever said multiculturalism would work?
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Well the point I would make is yes that’s nature, but I regularly see a meme of a little white boy who runs up to a little black boy and hugs him. The caption is something along the lines of racism isn’t nature it’s nurture, or that kind of theme.

My point is that nature IS teaching young kids who can barely speak an important survival skill to stick with people that look like them. Well, that’s my theory as to why they do it as proven by the experiment.

So in nature, kids do have prejudices based on genetics, and that goes for kids are all backgrounds.

So instead of nice, warm fuzzy feeling memes that we’re all human - we are all different and through nature we do not realise our subconscious biases (something I know I’ve banged on about). Because we never learn about this as as school children or adults - though I have had training on it in the last few years with my employer - we don’t think to bring it to our conscious attention that regularly unless it’s a scenario where say a person of a BAME background pushes in front of you in a queue, or you put a job advert out and you notice that you get majority Asian applicants.

I would therefore be teaching kids at an early (5-6 years old), in very simple terms about biases towards other people.

We can’t bury our head in the sand on it and blame it on nuture, to me it’s just not true.
 

I never thought id see the day.
But can i hear more from this self proclaimed gangster who has spent time in jail please.
This needs to be on the news.
 
colavfc said:
Dont know who he is but seems very intelligent.
Wouldnt it be nice if everyone was as realistic and as level headed.
There are many many black people coming out now against black lives matter. Ironically alot of the black gangster rappers have voiced an opinion very similar to this man.
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Thats a long video so I’ll watch it when I get more time, but to prove the opposite side of the coin here’s Mike Wedderburn of sky sports news who supports BLM who want to over throw capitalism... bet the Sky Shareholders love the sound of that.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-a-cry-for-help-not-an-attack-on-white-people

“We’re viewed negatively and with suspicion”
That perception change needs to start with the black community. There are problems with the killings between the black community.

“Were watched as we walk around shops”
Security guards are usually black. They have a job, and they watch who their gut says. If they see a white homeless man in the spirits aisle, they’ll watch him. If they see a group of white teenagers, they’ll get watched.

“We don’t hold position of influence in organisations”
This is a capitalist country with laws against discrimination, so you can. I do believe unconscious bias prevents that, but Asian people are in the cabinet and others have been. Asian people lead very successful business


“A black person in a top busienss is likely to be on the catering staff”
Again, you have every right to be the CEO if your education, experience and skillet is better than someone else’s - this is the greatest country in the world for that

“We get stopped and searched by the police”
unfortunately the police are looking out for the safety of the wider black community due to higher crime rates, to save a black family from mourning


“Yes even television presenters”
Bit arrogant flippant


“Life is simply tilted away from us”
I’ve no doubt it isn’t as easy, but no-one likes a victim. Perhaps we all just need to make a few changes?

“Black people have been murdered by members of organisations who’s job it is to protect us”... “and that’s here too”
Our hero Dalian is an example (not murder perhaps but a white policeman killed a black man). Race hate killings are rare, I would imagine the figures for black people killing white people are higher per capita of population. If a white person kills a black person because of skin, that’s racism and we’ll hopefully never see that again. What is happening too much, is that kids of all backgrounds are getting caught up in mainly black drugs gang violence, now an innocent white kid getting stabbed by a gang of which I have a five degrees of separation connection to one case, is that classed as racism? Or just unlucky? Do bores kids involved with drugs play cat and mouse with kids for a craic? Whatever it is, it needs to stop.

Edit: the last claim is barely factually true, british police kill literally a couple of people per year and from the names - looking like terrorists. Dalian, being a footballer, was always going to be high profile although is a freak accident without knowing the details


https://www.skysports.com/football/...-a-cry-for-help-not-an-attack-on-white-people
 
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I'm not being sucked in tonight! lol

But:

Great post CDX - the whole thing is nuanced but nobody can allow for nuances it seems because we ironically have to be black or white in what's said and discussed and woe-betide you if you chose the wrong word at any point.

White privilege/automatic systemic racism is a good proof of concept.

I'm not privileged...I don't seek a privilege, I don't play on it. I can't deny at points maybe I have benefited from the biases of others and never noticed. But I'm not cash rich or any kind of rich. I've worked longer than I'd have liked doing 16-18 hrs a day and I just muddle along and yes, in previous years, I don't mind saying I went without food (whilst employed as opposed to what I do now) when the eldest popped up (too proud to ask parents) so I knew she was fine.

Systemic racism, it exists, but it's not actually automatic. Stop and search is a good example in London/Brum etc - I'd imagine stop and search in Cornwall is a little different. Police look for results, they get used to getting certain results, whether it's from football fans, non whites, a particular family etc. A lot can be pointless, and if you're not breaking the law you can eventual get pissed off that it's assumed you are. But don't bitch if you are breaking the law and you get caught as too many are doing now.

What about black privilege in terms of positive discrimination? The world has turned that way and totally lost sight of the fact there should be no privilege, it should be best person for the job (I know that doesn't always happen which is why I don't actually have a problem with positive discrimination) - but again it's a one sided argument and the raise the other side and you're automatically judged.

It's just fostering further divides that shouldn't exist. And in terms of the hairdressing story mate, had you exploded I think you'd have made it worse for the missus, so you did the right thing even if it sits as the wrong thing dude - unless I've confused posters here? lol

As you widen the subject to trans....what was wrong with what Rowling said about safe space for women who bleed? That's denying any trans rights - it's simply pointing out born women who have been abused and have seeked some solace shouldn't be told we've got a former Bob who wants to be a Mary in the room next door. The same should absolutely be true on a vice versa basis for blokes who have been abused, with a Mary who wants to identify as a Bob.

It's not denying their rights or demeaning them - it's protecting the rights of the abused.

The whole thing has become a shit show or some rights trumping others.

Re Dan - my experience was different mate. Junior/Primary school few girls but boys were equally split when it came to friends (white, asian, black, a jehovah (I gave him an Xmas present and he didn't know what to do lol). Secondary school, far more BAME (if that's what's now correct) than white). But I did then have more white girl friends (platonic) for obvious cultural reasons.

I genuine believe it is both nature (look for commonality) and nurture (education and upbringing). If the nature isn't there, kids adapt and you look for commonality past colour. My mum used to joke about it, but I never once (apparently) commented someone was black or disabled or whatever - I picked out at aged 5 a bus driver who was bald.

I was destined to meet JF! lol

I can also say in light of the above, neither of the grandparents were quite as liberal as I became - much as I love them, So again for me, it's not strictly nurture.

I do, however, certainly get your point and I more than agree instead of religious education the teaching should be - we bleed the same, we love the same, we hate the same etc etc etc - without meaning to trigger social media, we're all just a little bit better at reacting to the Sun.

Re Wurz.

That Yaxley-Twat cocksucker deserves everything he gets by pretending he thinks he's clever and that he in no way didn't understand what he was saying whilst not saying it. It might not be criminal and I couldn't see the charges myself, but it's immoral and he's clearly thick - he shouldn't be allowed to breed.

And he's not the only one on all sides.
 
He might be the biggest **** on the planet, but surely sacking someone for actions outside work that were deemed as legal by the Police is way overstepping the mark. Now there is a line in the article that says "other related matters" which is their get out I suppose. His girlfriend was sacked for posts on social media.

Does this not send shivers down your spine? I really hope there was more to this than is being reported because on the face of it it is completely unjustified. This is exactly was Neil Oliver was talking about today and I think society is heading in a very dangerous path.

 
Also see how all the companies are falling over themselves to appear to be doing the right thing. The plane banner company, who knew what the banner said but still was OK with flying with it?
 
Wurzel said:
He might be the biggest **** on the planet, but surely sacking someone for actions outside work that were deemed as legal by the Police is way overstepping the mark. Now there is a line in the article that says "other related matters" which is their get out I suppose. His girlfriend was sacked for posts on social media.

Does this not send shivers down your spine? I really hope there was more to this than is being reported because on the face of it it is completely unjustified. This is exactly was Neil Oliver was talking about today and I think society is heading in a very dangerous path.

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I get what you are saying dude, but if it was your company and you were going to personally get that kind of press now based on him being a complete twat, what would you do?

It might not be strictly against the law given the choice of words, but again, it's perfectly clear what he meant in organising that message - he was just (well advised I guess) to not go with 'black lives don't matter'.

I don't think he has the IQ to have thought of that cop out himself. As said, he was quickly outed as somebody looking very friendly with Yaxley-Twat (there are photos) so this was organised, with an aim, and with a message that's clear - but can't be proven to a legal definition.
 
Wurzel said:
Also see how all the companies are falling over themselves to appear to be doing the right thing. The plane banner company, who knew what the banner said but still was OK with flying with it?
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Yes, contrary to initial reports, they haven't been grounded.

But you have to question the intelligence of who accepted it in this climate. There's no way they couldn't have known the true meaning.
 
We have to live in a society that is free to speak without fear of arrest or losing your job, however unpalatable his views are. OK so we sack him, what if someone in power finds your views unpalatable next? Look at Evergreen. This needs to stop now.
If it was my company, and there wasn't other factors in play, I would hope I would have the courage to defend free speech even if I completely disagree with the comments.
 
mike_field said:
White privilege/automatic systemic racism is a good proof of concept.

Systemic racism, it exists, but it's not actually automatic. Stop and search is a good example in London/Brum etc - I'd imagine stop and search in Cornwall is a little different. Police look for results, they get used to getting certain results, whether it's from football fans, non whites, a particular family etc. A lot can be pointless, and if you're not breaking the law you can eventual get pissed off that it's assumed you are. But don't bitch if you are breaking the law and you get caught as too many are doing now.

What about black privilege in terms of positive discrimination? The world has turned that way and totally lost sight of the fact there should be no privilege, it should be best person for the job (I know that doesn't always happen which is why I don't actually have a problem with positive discrimination) - but again it's a one sided argument and the raise the other side and you're automatically judged.

It's just fostering further divides that shouldn't exist. And in terms of the hairdressing story mate, had you exploded I think you'd have made it worse for the missus, so you did the right thing even if it sits as the wrong thing dude - unless I've confused posters here? lol

As you widen the subject to trans....what was wrong with what Rowling said about safe space for women who bleed? That's denying any trans rights - it's simply pointing out born women who have been abused and have seeked some solace shouldn't be told we've got a former Bob who wants to be a Mary in the room next door. The same should absolutely be true on a vice versa basis for blokes who have been abused, with a Mary who wants to identify as a Bob.
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Yeah that was me, I was there for the first hairdresser incident but not the second. I just remember going to meet her and the look on her face, she was ready to cry.

I was definitely someone who questioned a lot of these things even through the first year of the relationship but its undeniable. A tricky issue is similar to the 'believe all women' thing when it comes to rape. In cases of discrimination and racism, it is similar. I've been reading 'Race Talk' to try and be aware of this stuff and make sure there isn't a burden on my GF for explaining things to me. It talks a lot about this idea that when we try to explain away those seemingly innocuous social interactions it places further trauma and damage on the victim.

As I say its incredibly difficult to talk about it and even from the safety of a screenname and computer I feel a level of unease and social fear speaking about it based on what some posters might think. This stuff can suck the energy out of rooms and causes levels of discomfort even traumatic news about COVID can't bring up.

Heres another one, your point about the reverse discrimination. My GF has had recurring thoughts about the only reason she got into her PHD program is because of the colour of her skin. And that brings on the fear that thats all everyone else will think. I know that thats just anxiety, she has incredible recommendations, excellent experience and she has great test scores.

Whatever we want to call it - affirmative action / diversity programmes etc. that needs broader discussion too. It probably goes back to better job descriptions that fill broader criteria. Marketing teams are probably one of the better examples depending on your product or service you don't want a team full of one ethnic / cultural / religious / social class you broadly want a broad team that can reach the most amount of people. Therefore you might not necessarily value technical skills as highly in the review process.

Heres one that I disagreed with Peloton is marketed toward high income people. That naturally eliminates low income people and unfortunately a byproduct in America is a disproportionate amount of that group are people of colour. A guy was making the case that that is wrong but it isnt, why is it wrong? This is where the money will be made if people of that financial status can't afford it shouldnt they save? Its a luxury / discretionary items - a want not a need.
 
Wurzel said:
We have to live in a society that is free to speak without fear of arrest or losing your job, however unpalatable his views are. OK so we sack him, what if someone in power finds your views unpalatable next? Look at Evergreen. This needs to stop now.
If it was my company, and there wasn't other factors in play, I would hope I would have the courage to defend free speech even if I completely disagree with the comments.
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Agree. I think Katie Hopkins is a slag, but I don't think she should have been banned from Twitter, especially after seeing the video she was banned for. What good does it do? It just cements her followers views and makes her a martyr. And yes, I know Twitter can do what they want with their platform and are completely biased anyway, so it's kind of a pointless platform anyway.
 
This was a good conversation but around the 38-minute mark he lost me. "Statistics to prove anything" comes to mind.

White parents don't teach their children how to act around cops at 6, 7, 8 years old.

Also on Police brutality, in general, they are hyper-aggressive. Some on this board might get the same memory but the first time I ever saw the show Cops I was like 'why are these cops to aggressive'. They do things Irish an English cops would never do.

The truest thing about that conversation is poverty and the piece about taking a kid out of a good area and dropping them into a bad area and they're fucked.

I don't know much about Crowder but being Christian and being against welfare are two things that give me a bit of a concern. He falls into the wealthy christian white southern tribe (and obviously he isnt southern and maybe doesnt fall into that box I put him in). Not a believer in a 'welfare state' but certainly I am for public healthcare, a safety net, and supporting vulnerable people.

I don't want to speak for Crowder but he seems like the type who would rather tell me why it won't work than what we can do to make it work. This is anecdotal but I'll never forget a pharmacist I met who would talk about how broken public health is, how hybrids dont work etc. and proceeded to tell me how much his store would lose with a public system. I get it, I am not really affected by such a decision.
 
Yeah I don't agree with everything he says, but I have watched a lot of those "Change My Mind" bits and it makes it clear as to how many people's views and opinions are based on nothing but headlines, clickbait and media bias. You may have noticed how many times that kid said "I just saw the headlines". And he's a smart young man.

I don't have a problem with him saying how things won't work. At least he doesn't pretend he has the answers. Making people understand the flaws of how they think things should work is surely a good starting point to getting to a place where they can come up better solutions.
 
Funny isn't it how everyone is wound up about something that happened in America, but the problem we have here is terrorist attacks and stabbings, mainly black on black stabbings and it's all brushed away under the carpet.
For me living where I do, I'm more likely to be stabbed by a black man than have my neck knelt on by a policeman but I'm not allowed to say that am i without being labelled as some sort of ultra-right-wing racist.

I just think we need to look at our own issues and stop worrying about what goes on with Donald Trump and the USA, I know some are obsessed with them but we really don't have that much in common with them.

Life experience has taught me that things change over a lifetime they don't change in a few years.
BLM will succeed in causing a race war and there will only be one winner in the western world
 
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