O/T Covid-19 - Discussion for the duration of this crisis. | Page 111 | Vital Football

O/T Covid-19 - Discussion for the duration of this crisis.

Spursex said:
IF, IF it can achieve that, it would be a massive win and the beginning of the end of this crisis,.- it would save countless lives.

But as of now, it is an 'if'.


“What the vaccine was definitely able to do was prevent pneumonia and prevent actually any virus in the lungs at all. If we have a vaccine that can prevent pneumonia, severe disease, hospital admission, ICU admission and death, then that’s pretty good. That, I think, would be enough for all of us.”
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If the vaccine saves lives by lessening the severity of the virus initially with a possible follow up vaccine later its surely worthwhile.
 
80deg16minW said:
That's a treatment not a vaccine. Big difference.
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see Mee's post:






meee93
Vital Champions League





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Vaccines don't need to be 100% effective or given to everyone in order to prevent the disease from moving about the population.

For example, a highly contagious disease such as Measles requires about 90% of population to be vaccinated in order to reach herd immunity. Roughly 5% of measles vaccinations aren't effective for various reasons which is why it is so important that everyone gets the vaccination for measles.

For a less contagious disease such as Covid-19, some of the predictions were pointing towards figures maybe as low as 60% in order to reach herd immunity. Presuming people are safe once they have it once, that's roughly 40 million people in the UK need to have either recovered from Covid-19 or have an effective vaccine. So the vaccine doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be safe.
 
To summarise what is known so far about this vaccine....it stops you getting pneumonia, it doesn’t stop you catching the Covid-19 virus ( well definitely not if you are exposed to a large dose and maybe not at all) and it doesn’t stop you spreading the virus.

Maybe it’s irrelevant but I’ve already had a pneumonia vaccination as have many other oldies. Given that it doesn’t stop infection or stop the spreading of the virus it does not remotely meet its key target...at best it may be a treatment which prevents pneumonia if you catch the virus.

For me it’s a non-starter except for understanding why it doesn’t work in monkeys....who knows, it may work in humans and full marks to them if it does but surely any rational business would at least stop and review before plowing forward as suggested by a professor from Nottingham university.

Interestingly, their vaccine is using a variant of the common cold virus to try to stimulate the generation of antibodies. I believe the common cold is a member of the Corona virus family for which a vaccine has never been found. The Chinese virus that they claim works is based upon a variant of the Covid-19 virus, so they say.

The main thing about all this is that the messaging is all about a successful vaccine being available in the Autumn when there are obviously serious flaws and that is just another example of the way public opinion is being manipulated.
 
Spursex said:
The authorities and the scientists will tell you that is because they had almost 100% adherence to the lockdown rules, far far higher than they thought they could achieve, sadly the projected immunity, is still low, but the positive news is that the immunity post infection may well be enduring - let's hope it is.
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Here is a link to one study which projects that 29% of the population could have already had the virus....nowhere near enough for herd immunity but still a large number and growing...even during the latter stages of lockdown they were reporting 6-8000 new infections a day.
 
Harry-Kari said:
It’s interesting to note that London is stated as having one of the lowest new infections rates when it was the epicentre of the first wave...it could be indicative of an effective rate of immunity caused by the initial infection rate being several times larger than the hospital cases.....which would be good news.
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Anecdotally a friend who works for an NHS ward in London seemed quite distrustful of this data and said for his ward alone he's never seen the daily new cases be anywhere near as low as that report was making out was true for the whole of London.
 
Not a convincing or satisfactory explanation IMO. Both Cummings and his wife had symptoms before travelling , the 4 year old could have been transported to Durham by govt car to stay with relatives. The guidelines are clear especially if people are symptomatic, stay where you are.
 
I trailed back through press reports when it was announced that Cummings had symptoms at the end of March. The Downing street statement read that he was self isolating at home.
Not someone else's home. That is misleading , saying he is at home does not infer 260 miles away.
 
The Astra Zeneca CEO on the Marr show this morning when asked about the initial testing seemed to say that none of the vaccinated monkeys progressed to having pneumonia but had the Covid virus in their nasal passages. At this stage they didn’t know if those monkeys were still infectious to other monkeys.

Im not sure if that means the vaccinated monkeys caught the virus or not.

On the positive side, apparently the pneumonia vaccine currently available will not stop the version of pneumonia created by Covid-19, or at least is unlikely to do so (again nothing definitive yet) so if the Oxford vaccine prevents Covid developing into pneumonia then it will be useful...not sure how that will be measurable in the short term....but the question remains if the vaccine deals with a major effect of Covid-19 but does not prevent people from becoming infected or infectious is mainly just a treatment for those already infected?
 
The hypocrisy of the response to Cummings breaking lockdown is obscene.

Braverman, Hancock, Raab all lack any integrity whatsoever it seems. Another MP (forget who) has already deleted their ridiculous backboneless assertion.
 
Harry-Kari said:
Here is a link to one study which projects that 29% of the population could have already had the virus....nowhere near enough for herd immunity but still a large number and growing...even during the latter stages of lockdown they were reporting 6-8000 new infections a day.
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I'm not sure what you're point is anymore - that we shouldn't have had a lockdown and we should have just let it rip, so had double, maybe even triple the deaths?

The lockdown has worked, but we now have a regional issue where some have and are still following social distancing rules and some aren't (mainly up 'north) and there the infection remains stubbornly higher than elsewhere.

If as some scientists are predicting it slows almost to a dead halt because of the measures taken by the end of June, then the lock down has been a success - the only arguable point then for me is that probably should have imposed it sooner.
 
Spursex said:
I'm not sure what you're point is anymore - that we shouldn't have had a lockdown and we should have just let it rip, so had double, maybe even triple the deaths?

The lockdown has worked, but we now have a regional issue where some have and are still following social distancing rules and some aren't (mainly up 'north) and there the infection remains stubbornly higher than elsewhere.

If as some scientists are predicting it slows almost to a dead halt because of the measures taken by the end of June, then the lock down has been a success - the only arguable point then for me is that probably should have imposed it sooner.
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A report in The Times today infers the lockdown was two weeks or more too late.
 
Harry-Kari said:
The Astra Zeneca CEO on the Marr show this morning when asked about the initial testing seemed to say that none of the vaccinated monkeys progressed to having pneumonia but had the Covid virus in their nasal passages. At this stage they didn’t know if those monkeys were still infectious to other monkeys.

Im not sure if that means the vaccinated monkeys caught the virus or not.

On the positive side, apparently the pneumonia vaccine currently available will not stop the version of pneumonia created by Covid-19, or at least is unlikely to do so (again nothing definitive yet) so if the Oxford vaccine prevents Covid developing into pneumonia then it will be useful...not sure how that will be measurable in the short term....but the question remains if the vaccine deals with a major effect of Covid-19 but does not prevent people from becoming infected or infectious is mainly just a treatment for those already infected?
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When they dissected the Monkeys, there was no trace of the covid-19 in their lungs and none in any other organs, but there were antibodies in their blood, but the Monkeys were found to have the virus in their nasal passages - but as they introduced covid-19 into them by putting a huge load into their noses directly, they couldn't 100% say they had an immune response - but it and the antibody's found gave them enough science to encourage them to move ahead to human trials - the issue now is the lock down may have been too good and their isn't enough people now catching it!
 
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