Brexit Day!

[Lienking]

I didn't realise Farage was an MP. Interesting. You're full of interesting truths.

OK. I should have typed MPs/MEPs/politicians . Doesn't make any difference to the argument, but you win todays pedantry prize, and a great diversionary tactic.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Rather funny that Labour now see Tony Blair as a right wing fascist ! On a slightly more serious note there is a logical reason why Farage has been on QT so much. Only 25% of MPs voted to leave. If the BBC are going to get a 50/50 split of remainers and leavers (though they don't), the Leave MPs on average would have to be on 3 times each compared to each appearance by a Remain MP. Also there is always a Labour MP and a Conservative MP. These are chosen from a large pool of MPs, whereas the less frequent appearances from UKIP/Brexit Party , Green Party, Liberals come from a much smaller pool.

Farage is not, nor ever has been an MP.

For the past year he was leader of a party that had zero MPs.

For several years before that he was not a political leader at all.

Prior to that he was leader of a party that had one elected MP.

Tell me his appearances have been proportionate?

The referendum was a secret ballot. How do you know that 25% of MPs voted for Brexit? John Bercow never said how he voted. The current speaker has never said how he voted either. Lots of MPs are in that camp.

Several MPs who have been ardent leavers voted remain. So that is a nonsense.

On top of that, the Article 50 vote was won by a majority of 384. 82% of MPs voted for Brexit that day. The majority of those who voted against were SNP; who had an electoral mandate to do so from the Scottish people. So when you characterise the Labour Party as trying to stop Brexit, or parliament trying to stop Brexit (which you have in previous posts) that simply isn't true. Based on that vote, 82% of MPs could have been on QT to argue for Brexit.

Finding leavers to appear on question time is not and has not been difficult. Farage has been hideously overrepresented because he brings in clicks, simple as that.

Oh, and please don't characterise Labour as hating Tony Blair. Da Fuq does, but he is neither a Labour member nor voter

 

[Lienking]

Oh, and please don't characterise Labour as hating Tony Blair. Da Fuq does, but he is neither a Labour member nor voter

But Labour do tend to hate Tony Blair. The current leaders were asked who was their favourite Labour leader (or something like that). One of them chose someone who wasn't even a leader. Tony Blair did many years good work, but has only gone down in history for what happened in the Middle East, and the article I read said none of them would dare pick Tony Blair because of the animosity towards him, (not helped by his attempt to keeping us in the EU, getting the rest of us to dislike him too!). In reality , surely he was the most successful Labour leader ever, with few people anywhere near close to him. Three election wins, not a single defeat.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

But Labour do tend to hate Tony Blair. The current leaders were asked who was their favourite Labour leader (or something like that). One of them chose someone who wasn't even a leader. Tony Blair did many years good work, but has only gone down in history for what happened in the Middle East, and the article I read said none of them would dare pick Tony Blair because of the animosity towards him, (not helped by his attempt to keeping us in the EU, getting the rest of us to dislike him too!). In reality , surely he was the most successful Labour leader ever, with few people anywhere near close to him. Three election wins, not a single defeat.

Not going to disagree with any of that, but the yougov poll from last week asking whether Blair had had a positive or negative influence saw 38% of labour members polled sat negative compared to 26% say positive. So it's not exactly a majority.

Remember also that for the last 5 years labour has very much been in thrall to the hard left, who never liked the centrist approach.

Iraq was an awful mistake but it was no worse than any number of other similar wars Britain has walked into. We don't look at MacMillan in the same way for Suez, the Americans don't look at Bush the same way and history will be kinder to Blair than the current generation are

 

[Lienking]

The referendum was a secret ballot. How do you know that 25% of MPs voted for Brexit? John Bercow never said how he voted. The current speaker has never said how he voted either. Lots of MPs are in that camp.

Isn't it strange, for years you have made numerous statements about the referendum, but now it suits you, you play the secret ballot card . You said leavers were less well educated (but you don't know because it was a secret ballot), you say that leave voters are older (but you don't know because it was a secret ballot), and best of all today claim that Wales voted to leave, because the Welsh people voted Remain and the English people in Wales voted to leave (but you don't know because it was a secret ballot).

If you know otherwise, you are welcome to correct me, but the only figures I can find said 159 out of 650 MPs voted leave . 480 said they would vote Remain, and 11 wouldn't say.. It is pretty clear from their actions since how they voted, rather than the small surveys carried out on the general public.

11 MPs is not "lots of MPs" and I guess their behaviour since makes it pretty clear how they voted, and it comes out at around 25% however you work it out.

 

[ZedRed]

Not going to disagree with any of that, but the yougov poll from last week asking whether Blair had had a positive or negative influence saw 38% of labour members polled sat negative compared to 26% say positive. So it's not exactly a majority.

Remember also that for the last 5 years labour has very much been in thrall to the hard left, who never liked the centrist approach.

Iraq was an awful mistake but it was no worse than any number of other similar wars Britain has walked into. We don't look at MacMillan in the same way for Suez, the Americans don't look at Bush the same way and history will be kinder to Blair than the current generation are

Blair? His masterbate.

 

[radfordinlondon]

You talk about tariffs, but assume that something will cost £12 to make in the UK and only £10 to make in the EU. But what if it's the other way round? We already have tariffs with the world. What if we sign deals with countries that have more raw materials. What if we have no tariffs on car parts, but tariffs on completed cars? The government is now in a position to influence these things. I must admit, I don't have a lot of faith in our government, but I have a lot more faith in them than I do the EU.

You said in a previous post that the Euro has nothing to do with the UK. It doesn't directly, but the ERM failed, and yet the EU is stupid enough to try an even more rigid version . It was relatively easy to get out of the ERM, but will Italy, Greece etc ever manage to escape the Euro.

I don't see leaving the EU as a panacea to cure all ills, though it's rather ironic that I get criticised for not seeing any downsides to leaving the EU (yes there will be some), but none of the Remainers seem to see any advantages.

I'm actually one of the few (and frequently the only person) who actually tries to explain what I consider the benefits of Leaving the EU. I respect your well informed and educated posts, and in your case (and any others) I am sorry if Brexit has caused you to suffer. I still believe I have the right (along with millions of other people) to hold the view we will generally be better off outside the EU, without being told to jump under a tram, or being called uneducated, thick, an idiot, a racist, unable to understand. I really don't see why I should have to explain in detail how the UK should deal with the Irish border, tariffs etc any more than I would expect you to explain in detail as to whether or not the EU should have a trillion euro budget, exactly what they should and shouldn't spend it on, spend money on CAP, their border policy, what they should do with the Irish border , how they will cure the Euro problems etc.

Got no problem seeing the advantages of brexit, its just that none of it will benefit the british people at large. Just those at the top.

 

[Lienking]

Iraq was an awful mistake but it was no worse than any number of other similar wars Britain has walked into. We don't look at MacMillan in the same way for Suez, the Americans don't look at Bush the same way and history will be kinder to Blair than the current generation are

Most wars seem to be a mistake, but look what has happened in Syria where everyone seems to have adopted a more "hands off" approach. The dictator has won, Russia is helping itself, and 5 million refugees are pouring into Turkey.

 

[radfordinlondon]

Isn't it strange, for years you have made numerous statements about the referendum, but now it suits you, you play the secret ballot card . You said leavers were less well educated (but you don't know because it was a secret ballot), you say that leave voters are older (but you don't know because it was a secret ballot), and best of all today claim that Wales voted to leave, because the Welsh people voted Remain and the English people in Wales voted to leave (but you don't know because it was a secret ballot).

If you know otherwise, you are welcome to correct me, but the only figures I can find said 159 out of 650 MPs . 480 said they would vote Remain, and 11 wouldn't say.. It is pretty clear from their actions since how they voted, rather than the small surveys carried out on the general public.

11 MPs is not "lots of MPs" and I guess their behaviour since makes it pretty clear how they voted, and it comes out at around 25% however you work it out.

Leavers.being less educated was taken from exit polls- in other words, leavers identified themselves.

 

[da fuq]

You keep saying this, but provide no evidence. As I've said before, if you draw a left right line and stand on the very left, the Marxists look right wing. No one came up with a reason why on Brexit day the BBC news did the studio up in EU colours. They failed to broadcast BJs speech, and worst of all produced a programme for kids that many ethnic MPs have judged to be racist, along with a performance by a well known anti-Brexit MP.

Sir David Clementi Chairman of the BBC - EX Tory
Lord Hall is currently the director general of the BBC - Ex Tory
Sir Nicholas Serota who is about the most even handed out of all of them but he was a Tony Blair and Murdoch guy

Do you want me to go on?

I have also provided evidence of how the panel is picked and I could provide more examples of Plants but 2 that I have already listed should be enough

And lets not forget I have been saying this for a while

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Isn't it strange, for years you have made numerous statements about the referendum, but now it suits you, you play the secret ballot card . You said leavers were less well educated (but you don't know because it was a secret ballot), you say that leave voters are older (but you don't know because it was a secret ballot), and best of all today claim that Wales voted to leave, because the Welsh people voted Remain and the English people in Wales voted to leave (but you don't know because it was a secret ballot).

If you know otherwise, you are welcome to correct me, but the only figures I can find said 159 out of 650 MPs . 480 said they would vote Remain, and 11 wouldn't say.. It is pretty clear from their actions since how they voted, rather than the small surveys carried out on the general public.

11 MPs is not "lots of MPs" and I guess their behaviour since makes it pretty clear how they voted, and it comes out at around 25% however you work it out.

It's not contradictory at all.

We find out how people voted by asking them.

Here is one statistical model based on exactly that;


And another one


The link between age and leave is strong, but if you read some of the statistical models, once you even things out the link to education level is far stronger.

Here: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...im-that-better-educated-voted-remain-pollster

And if you want more detail, here: http://www.statsguy.co.uk/brexit-voting-and-education/

By all means post your post vote stats on MPs.

It won't be especially relevant for several reasons. Firstly, because we had an election in 2017 in which the composition of the commons would have changed. Secondly, because as I said, 82% voted to trigger article 50, which was the decisive brexit vote; and thirdly, because whether they voted leave or remain is not something you have a right to bitch about when those MPs were elected in 2017 by the exact same electorate as had voted in the referendum. Whether they voted leave or remain, their constituents trusted them

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Most wars seem to be a mistake, but look what has happened in Syria where everyone seems to have adopted a more "hands off" approach. The dictator has won, Russia is helping itself, and 5 million refugees are pouring into Turkey.

Indeed, and one shudders to think how much of a mess the Iraq region would have been in had the Americans gone in alone without a more level headed and moderating British influence. But that isn't ever really considered

 

[da fuq]

I tell you what LIEking for shits and giggles ill give you some names of the plants that have been rumbled and have been on multiple times and some times have actually had the make up department help them out and also no mention of the fact that some of them are Tory councillors


Christian Stevens
Layton Smith
Jim Swift
Jack Hickey

The actual list is a lot longer and that is from the last 2 years but i'm hoping you start taking it in

 

[Lienking]

Got no problem seeing the advantages of brexit, its just that none of it will benefit the british people at large. Just those at the top.

For what its worth, I think it's more likely the lower workers will benefit. Hopefully higher wages, more training, and investment in productivity.

 

[weejockmcplop]

Yes of course, higher wages for poor workers has always been top of the tory to-do list lol

 

[Pope John XXIII]

For what its worth, I think it's more likely the lower workers will benefit. Hopefully higher wages, more training, and investment in productivity.

Paid for by who?

 

[da fuq]

And I can tell you this Elisabeth Murdoch is in line to become the Director General of the BBC.

It got leaked that she was in negotiations so there has been some back tracking but don't be surprised if she gets the job before the end of this year

I mean Tony Blair is the godfather to her brother and he set all this in motion as a form of nepotism for the Murdoch kids years ago

That is how this shit now works

I'm hoping it doesn't happen because she is as rotten as her father

 

[Lienking]

I tell you what LIEking for shit and giggles ill give you some names of the plants that have been rumbled and have been on multiple times and some times have actually had the make up department help them out and also no mention of the fact that some of them are Tory councillors


Christian Stevens
Layton Smith
Jim Swift
Jack Hickey

The actual list is a lot longer and that is from the last 2 years but i'm hoping you start taking it in

They never tell you what the audience do though. How many in the audience 400 ? How many shows since Brexit say 100 ? That's 40, 000 attendees. I've already come up with two Labour workers/councillors who were on one show, actually helping select the Tory leader (or trying to make them look silly). I guess a lot of the people attending are councillors, activists etc as Mr Bog Standard Man usually has better things to do. you really are stretching things a bit on this one.

 

[da fuq]

They never tell you what the audience do though. How many in the audience 400 ? How many shows since Brexit say 100 ? That's 40, 000 attendees. I've already come up with two Labour workers/councillors who were on one show, actually helping select the Tory leader (or trying to make them look silly). I guess a lot of the people attending are councillors, activists etc as Mr Bog Standard Man usually has better things to do. you really are stretching things a bit on this one.

You really are not getting this are you

In this instance I shoulder some of the blame

When the selection process is taking place you have to state what your occupation is if you are an elected member of parliament or even a councillor. You have to state that so that you will be up for the panel or be introduced as one on the show to show your political affiliation if you are in the audience

My fault I should have explained that clearer

Also you are not supposed to have multiple visits as an audience member let alone to be able to ask multiple questions

BBC are supposed to have some impartiality - they fucking don't and have not for a long time

 

[Lienking]

Paid for by who?

Wages are usually paid by employers ! The government needs to accelerate capital investment tax allowances to add productivity. If companies can't simply bring in foreign chefs, plumbers, construction workers etc they will need to invest more in training and retaining staff, which hopefully will reduce the amount of zero hour contracts, and "self employed" people working in the gig economy. With no unlimited cheap labour supply, employers will need to start looking after workers again.