Agreed, I don’t think it would work as a gathering place for fans either especially after Sharpey’s. That had a bar and I assume didn’t do much trade. Unless they took the car park with the building and made a fanzone area similar to City Square at Ethiad with the stage, bar, food area with outdoor covered seating, things for kids to play on (table tennis table etc) and finally a club shop. That might work. Realistically though I think the best thing they could do with it is to make it a hotel. That’s probably the best chance they have of making money as people would surely pay to stay there especially on match days. They could package deals as well, say one/two nights at the hotel, a match ticket and hospitality.
Takeover
- Thread starter charlz54
- Start date
Looking at where sharpys failed chippy is located Wouldn't it be careless to have it has a meeting place for home fans during a home game seeing its directly near away fans end why not use it for away support during match days any other day open it for local people a place to meet on non match days
jeffs right
Vital Football Hero
May just open at some time as a Casino. Could have Northern Soul all nighters on there and Rock Nights. Could start a second Wigan Casino revolution. Either that or put gaming tables in there so silly buggers can chuck away their money.
Jonnysking
Vital 1st Team Regular
Better still, make it a venue for all fans to mix on matchdays like it used to be.
I used the bar, the restaurant and the chippy regularly during the Premier League days and never saw any trouble.
The_Pon
Vital Reserves Team
Having read through the plans that the new owners have publicised, it seems like a good deal for the club. In particular, investing to raise the academy status is a big plus.
I'd be much more wary if they were planning to sink in inordinate money for transfers, because with big transfer fees comes a big wage bill. As a long time Latics fan, I can be sure that even if we spent a billion on players, we'd never make that a profitable model, simply because the crowds aren't big enough, the club isn't 'fashionable' and doesn't have a global footprint that older clubs do.
City weren't a huge global name, but they're in a city most people have heard of, and have a rivalry with United, so there's a story there that involves one of the biggest clubs in the world... That's potential that they can tap in the longer term to make the big money and justify the investment as part of a long term strategy. We don't have that potential.
The academy is a very interesting way of doing things. Brentford and Southampton, amongst others, have proved that bringing your own talent through is a viable model, and one that we certainly are big enough (after realistic initial investment in the academy) to make work for us too.
Their plan shouldn't leave us in a massive financial hole right from the get go, and as those players come through over the next 5-10 years and beyond, it'll start to pay for itself. In theory.
Some modest investment in players would be welcome, because I'm no fan of loan players. I don't like that we essentially develop players for other clubs at the expense of our own players' opportunities to play and get first team experience.
The levels of expectation from the new owners seem realistic, which is also reassuring. It would terrify me to the core if they'd been taking about European football in two years, as some foreign owners like to do.
The Whelan years have been a ride, and we've had more ups and downs than many clubs have had in their entire history during that time. Some good, some bad, but the general direction has been upwards, and I wouldn't change a thing.
When he bought the club, Mr. Whelan was a very rich chap, and had the power to jumpstart Latics' journey. In that time, football has changed so much that whilst he's still a very wealthy chap by our standards, in football, he's no longer able to finance the growth that's needed to be competitive. Even in the second tier, and at 80+ years of age, no-one can blame him for not having the same level of drive and motivation to push the club forward himself that he once did.
To sum up, I'm optimistic about the takeover. I think the new owners' plan (at least what we know if it) is sensible, and offers us fans realistic hope that we will be able to consolidate our position in the Championship and look upwards rather than over our shoulders in the short term, whilst having a realistic route (via the academy) to improve our own squad and make some money from transfers. It's ambitious but sensible, and ostensibly strengthens the future of the club, rather than jeopardizing it by ludicrous and unsustainable spending, which could easily send us the way of Portsmouth.
I hope that we get behind the new owners. Only time will tell how it'll go, but I'm cautiously optimistic that this could be a good next step for us; the Whelan era couldn't last forever, and at least these owners seem to be talking about the longer term and building our future as a club sustainably, which is fine by me.
I'd be much more wary if they were planning to sink in inordinate money for transfers, because with big transfer fees comes a big wage bill. As a long time Latics fan, I can be sure that even if we spent a billion on players, we'd never make that a profitable model, simply because the crowds aren't big enough, the club isn't 'fashionable' and doesn't have a global footprint that older clubs do.
City weren't a huge global name, but they're in a city most people have heard of, and have a rivalry with United, so there's a story there that involves one of the biggest clubs in the world... That's potential that they can tap in the longer term to make the big money and justify the investment as part of a long term strategy. We don't have that potential.
The academy is a very interesting way of doing things. Brentford and Southampton, amongst others, have proved that bringing your own talent through is a viable model, and one that we certainly are big enough (after realistic initial investment in the academy) to make work for us too.
Their plan shouldn't leave us in a massive financial hole right from the get go, and as those players come through over the next 5-10 years and beyond, it'll start to pay for itself. In theory.
Some modest investment in players would be welcome, because I'm no fan of loan players. I don't like that we essentially develop players for other clubs at the expense of our own players' opportunities to play and get first team experience.
The levels of expectation from the new owners seem realistic, which is also reassuring. It would terrify me to the core if they'd been taking about European football in two years, as some foreign owners like to do.
The Whelan years have been a ride, and we've had more ups and downs than many clubs have had in their entire history during that time. Some good, some bad, but the general direction has been upwards, and I wouldn't change a thing.
When he bought the club, Mr. Whelan was a very rich chap, and had the power to jumpstart Latics' journey. In that time, football has changed so much that whilst he's still a very wealthy chap by our standards, in football, he's no longer able to finance the growth that's needed to be competitive. Even in the second tier, and at 80+ years of age, no-one can blame him for not having the same level of drive and motivation to push the club forward himself that he once did.
To sum up, I'm optimistic about the takeover. I think the new owners' plan (at least what we know if it) is sensible, and offers us fans realistic hope that we will be able to consolidate our position in the Championship and look upwards rather than over our shoulders in the short term, whilst having a realistic route (via the academy) to improve our own squad and make some money from transfers. It's ambitious but sensible, and ostensibly strengthens the future of the club, rather than jeopardizing it by ludicrous and unsustainable spending, which could easily send us the way of Portsmouth.
I hope that we get behind the new owners. Only time will tell how it'll go, but I'm cautiously optimistic that this could be a good next step for us; the Whelan era couldn't last forever, and at least these owners seem to be talking about the longer term and building our future as a club sustainably, which is fine by me.
I don’t know where you get the Brentford comparison from. They shut their academy down a few years ago as they didn’t think it justified the cost of keeping it running when any promising players they had got taken by bigger London clubs. They operate a B team model now and use it to recruit discarded youngsters or promising kids on contracts before offering them a first team contract if they are seen as good enough to progress further based on B team matches and training etc. That’s how they came across Chris Mepham, who is now a first team regular for them and Wales, and was subject to bids of over 10m from Bournemouth in the summer.
TRUE BELIEVER
Vital Football Hero
For me it makes more sense to move the offices, boardroom etc out of the stadium into the "chippy" and create more hospitality/conference facilities in the stadium. They could also bring the community trust into the same building and increase the marketing dept.
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
There is a lot of information to take in and it's hard to work out what is fact and what is speculation in some of the posts. I've still not had a chance to try and decode it so if anyone who's already gone through the trouble if you could be kind enough to clarify the following questions I'd be very grateful.
How much in total have IEC paid in total for everything?
Are IEC taking out a loan to pay for the purchase? If so how much and from who?
Outside of the 3 properties and their car parks are IEC getting any additional land and is there any mention of IECs plans for that.
Thanks in advance.
How much in total have IEC paid in total for everything?
Are IEC taking out a loan to pay for the purchase? If so how much and from who?
Outside of the 3 properties and their car parks are IEC getting any additional land and is there any mention of IECs plans for that.
Thanks in advance.
E
exiled tic
Guest
With the way Gelhardt is ripping up the England U17 games(two first half goals against Russia today) the new owners could already have a bonus buy! 6 goals in 220 minutes for England he is already catching the big boys eyes!!
The_Pon
Vital Reserves Team
The PDF attached is a slightly more concise summary of the preliminary financials. It's not the latest document, but I can't see that a great deal will have changed and probably not by much if it has at all.
The financials is basically a lump sum for the club, less the debt which is owed to Target, which is the Whelan Family's holding company. In round numbers, the debt to be cleared is c.£10million, with a further £16million balance.
I'm not a legal expert (and this document isn't user friendly), and I can't determine exactly how IEC is financing the deal, but given the value of IEC, I'd be surprised if they were taking a loan to buy the club. A company of their size will certainly have that much capital available.
As concerns the further investment on the training ground, transfers etc., this document doesn't cover it. Once I've fully read and digested the latest circular from IEC, I'll try to provide more insight.
My initial thoughts are that they will invest further capital rather than finance with loans, as the strategy they've laid out is a medium to long term one, with the biggest focus being on the academy. That would better lend itself to capital investment than loan financing, since the rewards for an improved academy are at minimum 3-5 years away, and more likely 5-10 years before major returns can be generated. As such, if they financed it with a loan, they're paying a lot of interest before any returns become apparent. If they invest the capital, they can write it off against their tax bill, which gives them an (albeit modest) benefit immediately, and bearing in mind the turnover of IEC as a whole, we're not talking huge sums of money to them.
Bear in mind that the Whelan Family were just that: a family. They created a structure of holding companies for ownership of WAFCL, but fundamentally, much of the money invested was coming out of their personal funds. IEC is a large corporation which has ongoing turnover in the way that private individuals don't, and their investing their capital protects their profit from taxation.
The whole 'faceless corporation' isn't a thing of beauty to me, but I was pleased to see that the Royles are involved. Joe and his son are both reputable characters in the football world (or as reputable as football people can be!) and I don't think they'd gamble their good reputation by being faces in a dodgy deal.
Of course, only time will tell, but my initial feelings from a business standpoint are good. I could be mincing my words this time next year, but ultimately, every new owner of every club both poses risks and offers benefits to the club, and the snippets that have been released to mere mortals like us suggest a legitimate investment and an intention of running the club in a sustainable way. All we can do is hope.
A final note is that when Mr.Whelan bought the club, he did so because he loved football and Wigan. He's had some great times as owner, not least winning the FA Cup. Whilst I don't doubt that the deal is one that's good for him as a businessman, I think he's fond enough of the club that he wouldn't knowingly sell to someone who would run it the wrong way and jeopardise its future.
The financials is basically a lump sum for the club, less the debt which is owed to Target, which is the Whelan Family's holding company. In round numbers, the debt to be cleared is c.£10million, with a further £16million balance.
I'm not a legal expert (and this document isn't user friendly), and I can't determine exactly how IEC is financing the deal, but given the value of IEC, I'd be surprised if they were taking a loan to buy the club. A company of their size will certainly have that much capital available.
As concerns the further investment on the training ground, transfers etc., this document doesn't cover it. Once I've fully read and digested the latest circular from IEC, I'll try to provide more insight.
My initial thoughts are that they will invest further capital rather than finance with loans, as the strategy they've laid out is a medium to long term one, with the biggest focus being on the academy. That would better lend itself to capital investment than loan financing, since the rewards for an improved academy are at minimum 3-5 years away, and more likely 5-10 years before major returns can be generated. As such, if they financed it with a loan, they're paying a lot of interest before any returns become apparent. If they invest the capital, they can write it off against their tax bill, which gives them an (albeit modest) benefit immediately, and bearing in mind the turnover of IEC as a whole, we're not talking huge sums of money to them.
Bear in mind that the Whelan Family were just that: a family. They created a structure of holding companies for ownership of WAFCL, but fundamentally, much of the money invested was coming out of their personal funds. IEC is a large corporation which has ongoing turnover in the way that private individuals don't, and their investing their capital protects their profit from taxation.
The whole 'faceless corporation' isn't a thing of beauty to me, but I was pleased to see that the Royles are involved. Joe and his son are both reputable characters in the football world (or as reputable as football people can be!) and I don't think they'd gamble their good reputation by being faces in a dodgy deal.
Of course, only time will tell, but my initial feelings from a business standpoint are good. I could be mincing my words this time next year, but ultimately, every new owner of every club both poses risks and offers benefits to the club, and the snippets that have been released to mere mortals like us suggest a legitimate investment and an intention of running the club in a sustainable way. All we can do is hope.
A final note is that when Mr.Whelan bought the club, he did so because he loved football and Wigan. He's had some great times as owner, not least winning the FA Cup. Whilst I don't doubt that the deal is one that's good for him as a businessman, I think he's fond enough of the club that he wouldn't knowingly sell to someone who would run it the wrong way and jeopardise its future.
Never let it be said I didn't help a needy damsel or king....
Here are the figures I gleaned from the shareholders 'acquisition' document dated 9 OCT 2018:-
THE MAXIMIUM IEC WILL BE PAYING IS; £22,375,000 but could be less if working capital provided by DW is less – over the stated period. (if it's more – hard lines for DW – a sort of 'heads we win – tails you lose' scenario!
The above is as described on Page 11:
The capital commitment for the Acquisition is the aggregate (total) of:
(a) £15,900,000 (equivalent to approximately HK$169,494,000); and
(b) the Working Capital Loans (in any event not exceeding £6,475,000 on the basis that the Long Stop Date is extended to 31 January 2019) (equivalent to approximately HK$69,023,500),
Funding of the Acquisition: Page 16 states; The capital commitment for the Acquisition will be funded by internal resources of the Group. (they raised 'capital' in June – some of you may recall).
Other land – 'non stadium' includes - Soccerdome - DW health club, and associated car parking. No mention of plans.
Points to note:
(a) All the precedent conditions have not yet been met to facilitate the conclusion of the acquisition.
(b) IEC assume they will obtain a loan (aprox) £33m for the working capital for the enlarged group, which of course, includes us - Latics.
Hope this helps your majesty.... If you require anything else, don't hesitate to ask...
NO, just the land which they are all situated on.
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
Why the hell would they do that ?
I assume to either build on it, or sell it to someone.
nottinghamlatic
Vital Reserves Team
Seems like buying the football team, unsurprisingly, is a means to an end. I doubt that they have the same level of commitment to Latics than they do to asset accumulation, such as land banking. All a bit unsavoury really.
Take away the fact that the club doesn’t have enough hardcore fans to sustain itself in the second tier and it really is a great deal for a new owner. Forget the club and stadium but two training grounds plus Sharpey’s and all the land around soccerdome etc along with all the car parks. They’re going to have a lot of prime real estate to play with. The question is what they do with it.
They’ll have to spend money if they want to fulfil their business plan. Take the academy for example, I’m sure that to attain category two status you need to have a full sized indoor training pitch. That will cost a bomb to build for starters.
They’ll have to spend money if they want to fulfil their business plan. Take the academy for example, I’m sure that to attain category two status you need to have a full sized indoor training pitch. That will cost a bomb to build for starters.
walgarthjohn
Vital 1st Team Regular
i keep saying this about the land
