Ipswich v Villa - Saturday 18th August | Page 18 | Vital Football

Ipswich v Villa - Saturday 18th August

1958Villan said:
Oh dear Liononthebed, I thought people had worked Bruce out by now.
You say mistakes aren't down to him but, the mistakes made would be less likely to keep being made, if he played players in their correct positions.
It's what we call 'the square pegs in round holes syndrome'.
You also say he does what he does with the style he plays but, the style he plays is a hotch-potch of different styles, none of which are played correctly.
As I pointed out in another post, if you play with a single forward and two widemen, four things have to be done before you can even think of having any success.
One; your forward has to be able to control and protect the ball as well as make good passes to the supporting players.
Two; your midfield players have to run beyond the forward on a consistant basis.
Three; your wideman without the ball has to cut in and attack the far post area from the ball.
Four; Your central midfield men have to be able to pick and make a pass quickly.
Bruce's style is to play one forward without having any of the rest happen. He also has no idea about how to change something that isn't working except, here I'm going by his actions last season, throw an extra three forwards on and hope something breaks.
We have two senior forwards in Kodjia and Hogan, neither of whom are suited to be target men. Both are more effective playing on the shoulder of the last defender, making short sharp twisting runs into space. This type of forward needs midfield to read those runs and deliver through balls of the right weight and into the right space. Our midfield ignore that kind of pass and get the ball wide at every opportunity for balls to be crossed that the forward will only get to first once in every twenty.
This is the managers fault.
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I ddont disagree regards what you say about Bruce. His style will never change which is why I fancied a coach changed.
Agree again regards is stupid the way he trys to get players to play well in wrong positions even when their correct position is available

But you can't blame him for players costly mistakes, jedis backpass, keeper coming out to catch instead of punching the thing.
To me we have a points total way better than I could of imagined a month ago plus the football is what Bruce does.
Why many moan when he is doing the business the Bruce way we know and expect is beyond me.
 
Liononthebed said:
I ddont disagree regards what you say about Bruce. His style will never change which is why I fancied a coach changed.
Agree again regards is stupid the way he trys to get players to play well in wrong positions even when their correct position is available

But you can't blame him for players costly mistakes, jedis backpass, keeper coming out to catch instead of punching the thing.
To me we have a points total way better than I could of imagined a month ago plus the football is what Bruce does.
Why many moan when he is doing the business the Bruce way we know and expect is beyond me.
Click to expand...

I guess it's because those of us who moan about Bruce want better for and from the club we love.
I've been a supporter since 1958, thats sixty years and in all that time I can't remember a Villa side being so disjointed and woeful.
I know Napoleon said he'd rather have a lucky general than a good one but, look what happened to him.

What I object to is Bruce saying we are light in some area's and doing bog all to change it.
Everybody and his uncles dog know where we are truly light but Bruce wants to strengthen in area's we are light in because of injury not lack of numbers.
We have 3 senior rightbacks on our books and only 1 leftback and two centrebacks but Bruce signs a Man U reserve on loan to play at rightback. To me that smacks of making a signing for the sake of making a signing.
We have two senior centrebacks and Bruce would rather play a midfielder at centreback than one of the two we have, after refusing to let him, said centreback join another club in the window. Nonsensical or what.
Bruce plays one forward and according to all the reports is chasing Abraham of Chelsea. Another forward who isn't capable of playing the lone forward role, so does this mean he will, if he gets the player, change his way of playing, no of course not, he's incapable of doing so.
To play with one forward you need a player similar to Lukaku or Benteke. Abraham needs a forward to play off, he isn't built to bully centrehalves, either in the air or on the ground.

It's because of things like this that I and others moan about Bruce.
He will take this club nowhere and the longer he is here the longer it will take to repair the damage he's doing to the club.
 
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1958Villan said:
I guess it's because those of us who moan about Bruce want better for and from the club we love.
I've been a supporter since 1958, thats sixty years and in all that time I can't remember a Villa side being so disjointed and woeful.
I know Napoleon said he'd rather have a lucky general than a good one but, look what happened to him.

What I object to is Bruce saying we are light in some area's and doing bog all to change it.
Everybody and his uncles dog know where we are truly light but Bruce wants to strengthen in area's we are light in because of injury not lack of numbers.
We have 3 senior rightbacks on our books and only 1 leftback and two centrebacks but Bruce signs a Man U reserve on loan to play at rightback. To me that smacks of making a signing for the sake of making a signing.
We have two senior centrebacks and Bruce would rather play a midfielder at centreback than one of the two we have, after refusing to let him, said centreback join another club in the window. Nonsensical or what.
Bruce plays one forward and according to all the reports is chasing Abraham of Chelsea. Another forward who isn't capable of playing the lone forward role, so does this mean he will, if he gets the player, change his way of playing, no of course not, he's incapable of doing so.
To play with one forward you need a player similar to Lukaku or Benteke. Abraham needs a forward to play off, he isn't built to bully centrehalves, either in the air or on the ground.

It's because of things like this that I and others moan about Bruce.
He will take this club nowhere and the longer he is here the longer it will take to repair the damage he's doing to the club.
Click to expand...
I 100% agree but we are stuck with him, his style, his ways.
Yes like you I've been a fan a long time and would love to see the style big Ron played, the arrogance and style of Gregory, even sir Graham but sadly football has moved on to be less about the fans, styles of football.
It's all about the rich owners getting richer, no matter the style of the game on offer.
Whilst Bruce has us in the top 6 he is safe BUT If we drop out he will be gone, I think even he knows that.
He must have a fear of losing a job he loves so no way will he try something new.
We can just be happy with the points and accept his ways.
7 from 9 is good this far but football on show as per almost 2 yrs is pish poor.
 
1958Villan said:
I guess it's because those of us who moan about Bruce want better for and from the club we love.
I've been a supporter since 1958, thats sixty years and in all that time I can't remember a Villa side being so disjointed and woeful.
I know Napoleon said he'd rather have a lucky general than a good one but, look what happened to him.

What I object to is Bruce saying we are light in some area's and doing bog all to change it.
Everybody and his uncles dog know where we are truly light but Bruce wants to strengthen in area's we are light in because of injury not lack of numbers.
We have 3 senior rightbacks on our books and only 1 leftback and two centrebacks but Bruce signs a Man U reserve on loan to play at rightback. To me that smacks of making a signing for the sake of making a signing.
We have two senior centrebacks and Bruce would rather play a midfielder at centreback than one of the two we have, after refusing to let him, said centreback join another club in the window. Nonsensical or what.
Bruce plays one forward and according to all the reports is chasing Abraham of Chelsea. Another forward who isn't capable of playing the lone forward role, so does this mean he will, if he gets the player, change his way of playing, no of course not, he's incapable of doing so.
To play with one forward you need a player similar to Lukaku or Benteke. Abraham needs a forward to play off, he isn't built to bully centrehalves, either in the air or on the ground.

It's because of things like this that I and others moan about Bruce.
He will take this club nowhere and the longer he is here the longer it will take to repair the damage he's doing to the club.
Click to expand...

In 60 years this is the most disjointed and woeful? I want some of what you’re smoking....
Damage he’s doing to the club?
Having a moan is one thing, but if you seriously believe that Steve Bruce is “damaging our club” then I give up.... Let me just throw a few names your way and if you can prove that Steve Bruce is worse than them all then I’ll bow to your greatness...
Turner, McNeil, Venglos, O’Leary, Lambert, Garde, DiMatteo, Doug Ellis, Randy Lerner, Tom Fox, Tony Xia.....
 
Langoe66 said:
Yes thanks. Have you even considered whether you like it or not, that we have played 3 games and got 7 points? Four more than Derby who apparently have the messiah as their current manager, 5 points in front of Stoke! Not as though that matters one jot after 3 frigging games but as some seem to think 3 games is enough to define our season it's a useful comparison to make! We had exactly the same over reaction after the first six games last year. A complete meltdown from some and yet we went on to have the best season I can remember for many a year. Yes we fell short and there were poor results and performances along the way but I defy anyone to deny there were many times last season when it felt bloody good to be a Villa fan again. I'm not happy with the way we're playing, Bruce drives me mad at times but who knows what the next 43 games hold? Looks like we'll add to the squad before 31st August which will hopefully improve the quality in the squad.....and yet to read some of the posts tonight it's as if we might as well chuck in the towel now....and we haven't even lost yet!
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The way we play our football, It does not seem like we would be getting wins against better teams that we are yet to play. You may be happy with the result, however, we should not forget who we played and how we played against those teams! It is not going to benefit us by going up playing this kind of football, as we would most likely get hammered by teams there and come straight back down. When we see teams like Fulham and Wolves winless despite playing the right way, i can't imagine what would happen to us once Bruce takes us to the premier league.

If you want to enjoy more wins, then we could drop down to the next league and enjoy a higher number of wins, would that give your greater pleasure?

I know it has only been 3 games and we can show improvement, but do you honestly see us playing good football under this guy in charge?
 
TheYank said:
I think most comments are fair, but there are delusional folks saying that Bruce will fail us in the Premier League as we play crap football; and Fulham/Wolves are struggling and they played great football last season.

We’re not in the Premier League, so why the hell are we talking about struggling in the Premier League?

Yes, we played way too slow, had no clue how to move forward in attack and played an annoying amount of hoofball today, that’s bad. But all we can do now is go out and try to beat Brentford on Wednesday.
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Could you tell why Bruce would be a success in the premier league?
 
Liononthebed said:
I ddont disagree regards what you say about Bruce. His style will never change which is why I fancied a coach changed.
Agree again regards is stupid the way he trys to get players to play well in wrong positions even when their correct position is available

But you can't blame him for players costly mistakes, jedis backpass, keeper coming out to catch instead of punching the thing.
To me we have a points total way better than I could of imagined a month ago plus the football is what Bruce does.
Why many moan when he is doing the business the Bruce way we know and expect is beyond me.
Click to expand...

What do you expect if players are played in wrong positions? And who bought those two goalkeepers who do not look like they are what we need for promotion? The Bruce way is no longer the right way, as was proved last season by 2 out of the 3 promoted teams.
 
1958Villan said:
I guess it's because those of us who moan about Bruce want better for and from the club we love.
I've been a supporter since 1958, thats sixty years and in all that time I can't remember a Villa side being so disjointed and woeful.
I know Napoleon said he'd rather have a lucky general than a good one but, look what happened to him.

What I object to is Bruce saying we are light in some area's and doing bog all to change it.
Everybody and his uncles dog know where we are truly light but Bruce wants to strengthen in area's we are light in because of injury not lack of numbers.
We have 3 senior rightbacks on our books and only 1 leftback and two centrebacks but Bruce signs a Man U reserve on loan to play at rightback. To me that smacks of making a signing for the sake of making a signing.
We have two senior centrebacks and Bruce would rather play a midfielder at centreback than one of the two we have, after refusing to let him, said centreback join another club in the window. Nonsensical or what.
Bruce plays one forward and according to all the reports is chasing Abraham of Chelsea. Another forward who isn't capable of playing the lone forward role, so does this mean he will, if he gets the player, change his way of playing, no of course not, he's incapable of doing so.
To play with one forward you need a player similar to Lukaku or Benteke. Abraham needs a forward to play off, he isn't built to bully centrehalves, either in the air or on the ground.

It's because of things like this that I and others moan about Bruce.
He will take this club nowhere and the longer he is here the longer it will take to repair the damage he's doing to the club.
Click to expand...

I like how those not in support of Bruce's football articulate their reasons, however those in favour disregard the obvious reasons which most likely will lead to another year and a failed attempt in the league for promotion.
 
Liononthebed said:
.
I 100% agree but we are stuck with him, his style, his ways.
Yes like you I've been a fan a long time and would love to see the style big Ron played, the arrogance and style of Gregory, even sir Graham but sadly football has moved on to be less about the fans, styles of football.
It's all about the rich owners getting richer, no matter the style of the game on offer.
Whilst Bruce has us in the top 6 he is safe BUT If we drop out he will be gone, I think even he knows that.
He must have a fear of losing a job he loves so no way will he try something new.
We can just be happy with the points and accept his ways.
7 from 9 is good this far but football on show as per almost 2 yrs is pish poor.
Click to expand...

Bruce we now know for sure is a defensive minded manager, however, i agree that the fear of losing his job could be a reason why he may stick to his tried and tested method instead of trying what actually works in the modern era of football.
 
1958Villan said:
I guess it's because those of us who moan about Bruce want better for and from the club we love.
I've been a supporter since 1958, thats sixty years and in all that time I can't remember a Villa side being so disjointed and woeful.
I know Napoleon said he'd rather have a lucky general than a good one but, look what happened to him.

What I object to is Bruce saying we are light in some area's and doing bog all to change it.
Everybody and his uncles dog know where we are truly light but Bruce wants to strengthen in area's we are light in because of injury not lack of numbers.
We have 3 senior rightbacks on our books and only 1 leftback and two centrebacks but Bruce signs a Man U reserve on loan to play at rightback. To me that smacks of making a signing for the sake of making a signing.
We have two senior centrebacks and Bruce would rather play a midfielder at centreback than one of the two we have, after refusing to let him, said centreback join another club in the window. Nonsensical or what.
Bruce plays one forward and according to all the reports is chasing Abraham of Chelsea. Another forward who isn't capable of playing the lone forward role, so does this mean he will, if he gets the player, change his way of playing, no of course not, he's incapable of doing so.
To play with one forward you need a player similar to Lukaku or Benteke. Abraham needs a forward to play off, he isn't built to bully centrehalves, either in the air or on the ground.

It's because of things like this that I and others moan about Bruce.
He will take this club nowhere and the longer he is here the longer it will take to repair the damage he's doing to the club.
Click to expand...

Oh dear. Talk about hysterical over reaction "most disjointed and woeful in sixty years" "repair damage he is doing to the club" dearie me.

I am not sure if you go to any games or not 1958 but on the evidence of what you wrote I don't think you even watch any highlights.

I know you have an agenda against Bruce , but I think your eagerness to have a go at him is clouding your judgement.
 
Having seen it now Nyland had the confidence to come and deal with it, I like keepers who come for that type of thing. In this case he dropped it, had he caught it nobody would have even noticed because thats how iit goes with keepers.
I hate "line" keepers whotry and make hollywoood saves .

Good keepers Just cut the danger out and you don't even notice them
 
Nyland will be ok. Sam Johnstone was very dodgy when he first pitched up, and he didn't do too badly in the end. Nyland's mistake yesterday has only been magnified because the rest of the side were unable to find a way through against 10 men for 50-odd minutes.

Yesterday was not great a very disappointing. But time to move on.

We go again :throw:
 
Divine_islet said:
I like how those not in support of Bruce's football articulate their reasons, however those in favour disregard the obvious reasons which most likely will lead to another year and a failed attempt in the league for promotion.
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Oh sorry for not articulating my thoughts as clearly as you. I apologise for trying to suggest some kind of balance in the debate is needed after three games of the season. You are clearly right, everyone who dares to suggest balance in the debate is wrong and they can't articulate their reasons anyway so 'all hail you'. I've said it on many occasions, Bruce drives me mad at times, team selection, tactics , style of play..... but you and a few others seem to be completely and utterly obsessed with his limitations. The fact we're having this debate three games in when we haven't lost says it all.
 
sirdennis said:
Yes looking back , he should have punched it instead of trying to catch it.
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And what if the punch had gone straight to an Ipswich player who then scored. Its the curse of being a goalie, its a (pardon the pun) catch 22, screwed either way.
 
Divine_islet said:
Bruce we now know for sure is a defensive minded manager, however, i agree that the fear of losing his job could be a reason why he may stick to his tried and tested method instead of trying what actually works in the modern era of football.
Click to expand...
Well, what doesn't work about a 4th place finish and a play off final? Sounds like it's pretty effective in this league.

What knackered us was the awful start and the dip around christmas (iirc). We were 3 wins off automatic promotion, which after a 46 game season, isn't a bad showing.

Yes we should have gone up - but as I said before, it probably turned out to be a blessing in disguise that we didn't.
 
1958Villan said:
What I object to is Bruce saying we are light in some area's and doing bog all to change it.
Everybody and his uncles dog know where we are truly light but Bruce wants to strengthen in area's we are light in because of injury not lack of numbers.
Click to expand...

C'mon, its not entirely Bruce's fault given our FFP situation is it.
 
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