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Departed
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Did you know that despite all our bitching and complaining about Hugo and other defensive players we still had the THIRD best defence in the league? Even though we let in 4 goals on the final day!
Agree to disagree mate. He'd flown under the radar but any soton fan would tell you he was one of the best in Europe when they had him. They had best defence in the league when he was there iircFreund , I will not disagree with you about about Toby , but he wasn't one of the best in Europe by a long way . Southampton only had him on loan and only kicked up a fuss when we stepped in to buy him . Even his price reflected what AM thought he was worth . I'm certainly not putting him down ,I think he is amazing .
I was going to go through all the others that were not the best in Europe when Poch arrived , and since he has been here, but I couldn't be arsed . That's why I only mentioned Toby .
Sorry Fruend , I thought I had replied to your post but it didn't attach itself,my reply is aboveAgree to disagree mate. He'd flown under the radar but any soton fan would tell you he was one of the best in Europe when they had him. They had best defence in the league when he was there iirc
Edit:looked it up. They had 2nd best defence in the league behind Chelsea that season. He was a world class CB camouflaged by a mid table team around him.
The players we have were not some of the best in Europe when we acquired them . Alderwiereld was out on loan when we bought him. I can't agree with you there at all RD .
It's down to Poch and the background staff that they are now some of the best in Europe
He has certainly helped them get to that level. That wasn't my point though.
Genius? Way over the top. Over the last three seasons he has had some of the best players in Europe to play with. It's not like we have a squad of players who should be mid table.
Good-very good is far more realistic.
then you have left me in the dark
So what exactly is your point then . He has got us to champions league for the last three seasons with players that weren't the best in Europe ,but had got them to that level, and hasn't had the funds to buy ready made " best in Europe " like the Mancs do.
help me out . If that is "good/ very good "can you tell me who has done better
He has got us CL three seasons running with players that should be winning trophies. I don't see that as genius.
Yes he has improved players but quite a few players were already at a very good level before he even arrived. You are underestimating how good some of the players we had at the time of his arrival.
Players like Hugo, Walker, Toby, Verts, Eriksen, Dembele were already at a very high level before he arrived. IMO they would have always got to the level they are at or reached. Players like Wana and Son were already very well known and again at very good levels when he signed them.
He should be praised more for improving players like Rose, Dier, Alli, Kane. As they have come on massive levels. But that is his job. He gets paid 5m a year to do it. There are loads of young managers in the lower leagues that improve players to really good levels yet they are not geniuses are they?
A genius is a manager that over performs but wins trophies. There isn't many managers that can be called a genius. Sir Alex certainly deserves that title, are you telling me Poch has earned that title like Sir Alex? Do me a favour.
I can picture you as a Tennis player or Boxer. "I'm world class the best in the world", yet never wins a Grand slam or world title. ;-)
The Levy/Pochettino combination is changing football. They are disruptors. Few see it now but if they remain together they will become legendary.
Seriously, by what objective measures do you determine that we should have been winning trophies? (Apart of course the Top 4 one whereby one of the greatest managers of the PL era who is of the opinion is the equivalent of doing so).
He improved Walker no end, same with Toby and Verts - all of whom would consistently make game defining errors and have done since they joined us; terrific players, but certainly not the Gods you allude to.
As fro Dembo; before Poch he was just a sideways backwards player who shielded and held the ball well, whilst dribbling the same player three times without consistently offering anything going forward. Poch finally changed that.
Eriksen is far more consistent now than he's ever been, that said, I regret that Poch hasn't had the confidence in him/rest of the team to move him into the middle as harry did with Modric, as I think he'd have the same electrifying effect.
Son was roundly and vocally written off here and elsewhere - the same is true of Victor who was seen as a red card/bad non thinking fouler just waiting for a yellow card - he improved both these players beyond all recognition.
The difference, I grant you between winning and coming second or just failing is massive - and again and again he's made it clear that yo need to find that winning mentality that we just seem to keep lacking - it's my hope that he'll address it this summer.
Genius is an over-used term in football, he isn't one as in the PL that in terms of an accolade is mostly reserved for managers with limitless budgets and who can get almost any player they want...there has only been one exception to that in the PL er and chances are we won't see it again in our lifetime..
To be where we are today is an incredible achievement, but to be the sort of consistent 'winners' you think we should be, may well take another £200-300 mill in spending, because winning one trophy and then disappearing from sight for a decade or two is something that just won't cut it for some anymore; expectations have been risen - and the only person whose fault and who deserves all the credit for it is the man himself; Poch.
The Levy/Pochettino combination is changing football. They are disruptors. Few see it now but if they remain together they will become legendary.
We need a Poch/Levy meeting update....
I have given him credit where it's due. I find it baffling when people are calling him a genius. It's ridiculous. If he is a genius then so are many other managers around.
You know my opinion on every player you mention so I don't need to go through it again. I have given Poch credit for improving every player we have. Damn I have even said he is our best ever Premier League manager. My point was he had some very good players already here before he arrived. It's not like he was working with mid table cannon fodder.
I do however feel 4 managers in the league would have won a trophy or two with the players we have. If he is a genius then he would have delivered a trophy in the last 3 seasons. He didn't. At the moment at best he is a very good manager.
I don't get why winning 1 trophy would set us back either? I am assuming you think to win a trophy we would need to miss out on the CL once and if we did we would go into free fall? And yes I know all about the frigging financial gap. Doesn't mean a team can't win trophies. When a team and a large part of the squad is good enough then they are good enough. Having the money makes it a lot easier but hell everyone knows that.
Any news on his meeting with the Levy?
He has got us CL three seasons running with players that should be winning trophies. I don't see that as genius.
Yes he has improved players but quite a few players were already at a very good level before he even arrived. You are underestimating how good some of the players we had at the time of his arrival.
Players like Hugo, Walker, Toby, Verts, Eriksen, Dembele were already at a very high level before he arrived. IMO they would have always got to the level they are at or reached. Players like Wana and Son were already very well known and again at very good levels when he signed them.
He should be praised more for improving players like Rose, Dier, Alli, Kane. As they have come on massive levels. But that is his job. He gets paid 5m a year to do it. There are loads of young managers in the lower leagues that improve players to really good levels yet they are not geniuses are they?
A genius is a manager that over performs but wins trophies. There isn't many managers that can be called a genius. Sir Alex certainly deserves that title, are you telling me Poch has earned that title like Sir Alex? Do me a favour.
I can picture you as a Tennis player or Boxer. "I'm world class the best in the world", yet never wins a Grand slam or world title. ;-)