What is pissing you off the most?

[Calvin Plummer]

You are telling them they are going to lose a lot more than that.

It's alright for us; middle aged, married, kids, settled. We can stand a few years stuck at home if we need to. It's actually made me a bit wealthier.

As a young person have none of that, you have to go out and get it and we are warning them that they can't.

I'm not saying we will forever be in lockdown.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

I'd choose your son. I've completely changed my lifestyle, spent months without any contact with my partner and family so I could keep my business going and minimise risk to everyone.

I believe we will get 80% of normality back by the end of summer. By Christmas 95%.

But we do need to be prepared for further outbreaks, further mutations and ultimately further pandemics.

Yes, but I can't expect Will to choose my son. I'm sure if you named my son, showed him a photo and said he will definately die if you don't do this he would want to help. But ultimately, most people will take it as life being life and get on with it.

I have lost my faith unfortunately.

This Christmas we will be lamenting Mr Johnson's reluctance to do what should have been started last February at airports as we wait on the next vaccine for the South African, Brazilian or fucking Djibouti varient

 

[Will.NFFC]

Yes, but I can't expect Will to choose my son. I'm sure if you named my son, showed him a photo and said he will definately die if you don't do this he would want to help. But ultimately, most people will take it as life being life and get on with it.

I think the other more important point that’s being somewhat lost, is the mortality rate and demographic.

All life is precious and in the case of Popes son, I know he mentioned he has disabilities and I’m obviously not privy to whether he has underlying health issues, but the chances of him becoming seriously ill let alone dying from this remain tiny for anybody under the age of 70. So the “popes son or normality?” argument is not a fair or accurate question.

It’s being discussed like the Black Death whereby no matter who you are, you’re 50/50 if you catch it.
That’s not say, ‘well hey ho I’m okay so let’s crack on and anybody who dies with this disease tough’, but it absolutely does mean that a sense of balance and fairness needs to be struck here.

The population have been nothing short of superb to protect a generation that’s lived a full life, for a whole year, but I know my grandparents are hating the fact that their sons and daughters jobs are at risk, that their grandchildren’s futures and livelihoods have been taken away for them to ensure that they might get an extra 2/3 years - how they phrased it NOT Me.

But we’ve lost a huge sense of perspective on this, from the government suggesting a 2nd lockdown would CRIPPLE us to the point of no return economically, to now going through our 3rd with ministers saying in January that pubs won’t be open until July? Madness!

You’ve just dismissed young people losing 2 years like it was no biggie and I think that’s another example of people losing perspective. The suicide rate among young people increasing is certainly a biggie, young people paying thousands of pounds for a digital education with no freedoms at a time where they’ve just become old enough to drink alcohol and mix with new people is a biggie & 200k job losses in areas where we over index on younger employment is a biggie.

My question is, why is the livelihoods of everybody in the entire country in the hands of these people indefinitely with no level of democracy or engagement with people? Why is it so tunnel visioned? Why do they not have the decency to sincerely thank people for their continued compliance and give younger people genuine hope? or at least create something to help people feel like they aren’t just working 5 days a week with no letting off steam.

You’re right, the government have been dreadful in terms of their handling of the virus, but not as bad as their handling of the people who they’re supposed to serve. The 99%, not just the 1%.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I think the other more important point that’s being somewhat lost, is the mortality rate and demographic.

All life is precious and in the case of Popes son, I know he mentioned he has disabilities and I’m obviously not privy to whether he has underlying health issues, but the chances of him becoming seriously ill let alone dying from this remain tiny for anybody under the age of 70. So the “popes son or normality?” argument is not a fair or accurate question.

It’s being discussed like the Black Death whereby no matter who you are, you’re 50/50 if you catch it.
That’s not say, ‘well hey ho I’m okay so let’s crack on and anybody who dies with this disease tough’, but it absolutely does mean that a sense of balance and fairness needs to be struck here.

The population have been nothing short of superb to protect a generation that’s lived a full life, for a whole year, but I know my grandparents are hating the fact that their sons and daughters jobs are at risk, that their grandchildren’s futures and livelihoods have been taken away for them to ensure that they might get an extra 2/3 years - how they phrased it NOT Me.

But we’ve lost a huge sense of perspective on this, from the government suggesting a 2nd lockdown would CRIPPLE us to the point of no return economically, to now going through our 3rd with ministers saying in January that pubs won’t be open until July? Madness!

You’ve just dismissed young people losing 2 years like it was no biggie and I think that’s another example of people losing perspective. The suicide rate among young people increasing is certainly a biggie, young people paying thousands of pounds for a digital education with no freedoms at a time where they’ve just become old enough to drink alcohol and mix with new people is a biggie & 200k job losses in areas where we over index on younger employment is a biggie.

My question is, why is the livelihoods of everybody in the entire country in the hands of these people indefinitely with no level of democracy or engagement with people? Why is it so tunnel visioned? Why do they not have the decency to sincerely thank people for their continued compliance and give younger people genuine hope? or at least create something to help people feel like they aren’t just working 5 days a week with no letting off steam.

You’re right, the government have been dreadful in terms of their handling of the virus, but not as bad as their handling of the people who they’re supposed to serve. The 99%, not just the 1%.

Did you vote Tory out of interest?

 

[Will.NFFC]

Did you vote Tory out of interest?

Regretfully so, but not again after this - pure demonstration that they don’t serve the people.

Politically, my distain for left wing politics/leaders in this country in recent years has meant that I’m probably voting for the lesser of two shit parties to be honest. Nobody gets my support next time around though.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Regretfully so, but not again after this - pure demonstration that they don’t serve the people.

Politically, my distain for left wing politics/leaders in this country in recent years has meant that I’m probably voting for the lesser of two shit parties to be honest. Nobody gets my support next time around though.

Doing that is just the same as voting Tory again

 

[Will.NFFC]

Doing that is just the same as voting Tory again

Perhaps, but Keir Starmer has been equally dreadful in this pandemic - anybody can sit and slate the awful conservatives during this, but as an opposition leader, abstaining on the vote for those rules and not putting tangible ideas/proposals about what could be done and being the voice for the ‘many not the few’, is inexcusable.

But that’s the biggest problem with politics in this country - it’s not about an alternative to get people onboard, which it should be. They’d rather give you a reason not vote Tory than a reason to vote labour, and vice versa.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Perhaps, but Keir Starmer has been equally dreadful in this pandemic - anybody can sit and slate the awful conservatives during this, but as an opposition leader, abstaining on the vote for those rules and not putting tangible ideas/proposals about what could be done and being the voice for the ‘many not the few’, is inexcusable.

Uninspiring I admit.

But he is hampered by being desperate not to offend people like you who voted Boris.

And in fairness, he called for a short lockdown in October after reading the scientific reports calling for that while Johnson ignored it. Remember that he doesn't get the SAGE daily briefings the PM does. It's hard to really see how the opposition leader can propose any radically different policy from that which the government is doing. The government is largely doing the right things; just not competently or at the right times.

You vote for whoever you think is right, but I would urge you to still vote. If you don't vote, you don't matter.

 

[Will.NFFC]

Uninspiring I admit.

But he is hampered by being desperate not to offend people like you who voted Boris.

And in fairness, he called for a short lockdown in October after reading the scientific reports calling for that while Johnson ignored it. Remember that he doesn't get the SAGE daily briefings the PM does. It's hard to really see how the opposition leader can propose any radically different policy from that which the government is doing. The government is largely doing the right things; just not competently or at the right times.

You vote for whoever you think is right, but I would urge you to still vote. If you don't vote, you don't matter.

Yes to be fair I do accept that what’s available to him makes it harder to have an end to end Covid plan, but even if he was there to bring that balance/perspective that we’ve discussed on the thread with CP, it would go along way to ensuring the government are at least having to capture the dilemma with young people and those that are finding this tough because they’re healthy.

That’s the very least I’d expect from a Labour government and given the general unrest around the UK, it would probably give him a strong platform going into the next election - hell it would certainly make me think twice when it comes around.

I’ll think about it closer to the time as I do agree with your sentiment on voting, but I’ll definitely be doing my due diligence before deciding.

 

[Woanz]

Perhaps, but Keir Starmer has been equally dreadful in this pandemic - anybody can sit and slate the awful conservatives during this, but as an opposition leader, abstaining on the vote for those rules and not putting tangible ideas/proposals about what could be done and being the voice for the ‘many not the few’, is inexcusable.

But that’s the biggest problem with politics in this country - it’s not about an alternative to get people onboard, which it should be. They’d rather give you a reason not vote Tory than a reason to vote labour, and vice versa.

I genuinely feel sorry for steer calmer he can’t just say you northern fuckwits are traitors, bigots & racists & the fact you voted Tory sums you up.

Not the biggest vote winner I grant you.


Labour should give up on the idiot unemployable in north & leave them to their fibromyalgia, tracksuits & anxiety


Scotland is gone, the north is lost to populism. Labour needs to steal the Lib Dem vote as anything is better than the butcher & his band of incompetent idiots

 

[paz1967]

Regretfully so, but not again after this - pure demonstration that they don’t serve the people.

Politically, my distain for left wing politics/leaders in this country in recent years has meant that I’m probably voting for the lesser of two shit parties to be honest. Nobody gets my support next time around though.

people like you are really at the foundation of why the country is shit

 

[Strett]

I genuinely feel sorry for steer calmer he can’t just say you northern fuckwits are traitors, bigots & racists & the fact you voted Tory sums you up.

Not the biggest vote winner I grant you.


Labour should give up on the idiot unemployable in north & leave them to their fibromyalgia, tracksuits & anxiety


Scotland is gone, the north is lost to populism. Labour needs to steal the Lib Dem vote as anything is better than the butcher & his band of incompetent idiots

I'm old enough to remember the Labour party being the champion of the working classes and stood up to give a voice to the ones that didn't have the wherewithall to do it themselves.
Now they slag them off, call them thick and racist, then wonder why they vote for ABL (anyone but Labour)

A strange development in British politics.

 

[Woanz]

I'm old enough to remember the Labour party being the champion of the working classes.
Now they slag them off, call them thick and racist, then wonder why they vote for ABL (anything but Labour)

A strange development in British politics.

To be fair quite a few are thick & racist.

As I said I’d leave them to it I wouldn’t try & appeal to racists as it’s wrong & people need to work that out.

 

[weejockmcplop]

To be fair quite a few are thick & racist.

As I said I’d leave them to it I wouldn’t try & appeal to racists as it’s wrong & people need to work that out.

Why, in your opinion, are they so racist?

 

[Strett]

To be fair quite a few are thick & racist.

As I said I’d leave them to it I wouldn’t try & appeal to racists as it’s wrong & people need to work that out.

If you were to say that (I wouldn't) then surely being in the North has very little impact as to whether you are thick.

Also where is 'North'? I read a while ago that Gainsborough was the cusp of North South. But then Chester (where I'm from) that's not particularly 'Northern' I've watched Hollyoaks too, but it's geographically north.

Look at some Eastenders, don't get many thicker, more racist then those sparrahs. Get down Billingsgate, it's like open auditions for BNP candidates.

Now Leeds has a Harvey Nics; that's not particularly 'Northern'
Hull though, yeah that's a shit hole. Full of fat lairy fookers with angry looking tattoos, shouting about rugby league; and that's the women!!

I can't even remember my point now so I'll stop typi...

Nope, still no idea, but soap operas is a theme.

 

[Woanz]

Why, in your opinion, are they so racist?

Because traditional northern working class jobs went & weren’t replaced

Because 9/11 & then the stupid wars following it & all the fall out from that lead to a massive rise in Islamaphobia

Because Farage & his band of ***** banging on about bongo bongo land meant people could blame someone else for all their problems

The media constantly churning out right wing anti everyone who isn’t a gammon

Mass immigration over years must have some impact, especially when you’ve got UKIP etc stoking the fire.

Poor education & not explaining the benefits of immigration, though I doubt the thick would listen anyway.

 

[AdebolaCornflakes]

Regretfully so

Admits it

 

[weejockmcplop]

Because traditional northern working class jobs went & weren’t replaced

Because 9/11 & then the stupid wars following it & all the fall out from that lead to a massive rise in Islamaphobia

Because Farage & his band of ***** banging on about bongo bongo land meant people could blame someone else for all their problems

The media constantly churning out right wing anti everyone who isn’t a gammon

Mass immigration over years must have some impact, especially when you’ve got UKIP etc stoking the fire.

Poor education & not explaining the benefits of immigration, though I doubt the thick would listen anyway.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

This is why simply calling them racist and stupid and then writing them off is a terrible idea.

People are driven to their opinions, sometimes by reasonable stuff, sometimes not.

This 'racism' among the poor is a reaction to the fact that no government ever listens to their concerns. This racism comes from the top, from the elites, labelling the poor as racists is to completely miss the point.

If Blair's Labour had listened to their concerns years ago then maybe we wouldn't be in this mess. If Corbyn's labour hadn't championed the 'immigration is good' line because mass immigration benefits the middle class bougy lefties that Corbyn so relied on, then maybe his Labour wouldn't have been seen to be betraying the working class.

Labour made the working class easy targets for the likes of The Sun over decades, and now blames the very people they betrayed and ignored.

 

[Strett]

Because traditional northern working class jobs went & weren’t replaced

Because 9/11 & then the stupid wars following it & all the fall out from that lead to a massive rise in Islamaphobia

Because Farage & his band of ***** banging on about bongo bongo land meant people could blame someone else for all their problems

The media constantly churning out right wing anti everyone who isn’t a gammon

Mass immigration over years must have some impact, especially when you’ve got UKIP etc stoking the fire.

Poor education & not explaining the benefits of immigration, though I doubt the thick would listen anyway.

This 'thick' tag is like catnip to those un-reconciled rejoiners, reinforcing both their claims of superior understanding and their contempt for the uneducated masses, who dared to vote against the settled view of almost the entire intellectual establishment.

Why should the pond life that dragged itself from the estates to the ballot box be allowed to ruin everything for the rest of us, eh?

Those with lower educational qualifications were more likely to be among voters who felt pushed back in the queue for public services as a result of unchecked migration from the 27 other EU nations, or sensed that their earning power had been squeezed for similar reasons.

The ones with a higher education might have been thinking of the ability to buy a property in Italy without paying a special tax, or of his children’s opportunity to study at a French university for the same price as the locals.

In that sense, the working-class and the middle-class voter are no different: both were acting rationally according to their own perceived self-interest.

But I suppose 'thick' and 'racist' are a bit more catchy.

 

[Will.NFFC]

Admits it

Well you’re more of a labour man yourself.