Yes. I had a copy of his/her classic single "If you don't want to f#ck me baby, baby f#ck off". Eat your heart out Oscar Wilde.
US Presidential election
- Thread starter PhilK66
- Start date
valenciagill
Vital Football Hero
I think its naive to look back only 4 years , and to believe it's all Trump's fault.
Just like the UK , and the rest of the western world , politics have become divisive.
The ingredients of conflict are apparent to anyone who takes the time to notice.
One good thing is that , between them , Congress and Senate will temper anything too controversial.
mehmets_curlies
Vital Squad Member
A
Absolutely agree, but Trumps presidency has flamed issues out there and highlighted them, but I don't put all the blame on him. It takes "2 to tango" and others on the opposite side need to look at themselves too. Trump, however, must take the blame for most if it as he is their leader. It is his role to unite
chris who
Vital Champions League
Bit rich from someone who is about the most divisive person on this message board in terms of politics.
alphabet_king
Vital 1st Team Regular
So now looking like the key states are:
Nevada 6 > Dems ahead
Wisconsin 10 > Dems ahead
Arizona > 11 > dems ahead
= 27 electoral colleges > takes him up to the magic 270
Pennsylvania 20 > Reps ahead
North Carolina > 15 Reps ahead
Georgia 16 > Reps ahead
Alaska > 3 > Reps ahead
= 54 electoral colleges > takes him up to 268, just 2 short of the 270 required.
So looks like Biden will just about have enough to push him over the line if all stays the same.
However in an amusing turning of the tables, it now seems that in one state (I cant remember which), the postal votes are now favouring Trump, as they are the post bags from specific Trump favoured districts, so he might actually change his tune soon and want those postal votes to continue being counted.
Sharpiegate - Accusations of Sharpie votes being discounted have been clearly refuted by the officials in Arizona, they've made it clear all votes will be counted, so that's simply fake news it seems.
I believe trump is raising legal issues with many of the votes. Who knows on what legal grounds he's actually raising the cases though, or whether it's got any justification. One feels he's just desperately clutching at straws to try to create any mess he can, and save face when he loses. I.e. will still claim he won even when he lost, and will stick to that story forever.
Nevada 6 > Dems ahead
Wisconsin 10 > Dems ahead
Arizona > 11 > dems ahead
= 27 electoral colleges > takes him up to the magic 270
Pennsylvania 20 > Reps ahead
North Carolina > 15 Reps ahead
Georgia 16 > Reps ahead
Alaska > 3 > Reps ahead
= 54 electoral colleges > takes him up to 268, just 2 short of the 270 required.
So looks like Biden will just about have enough to push him over the line if all stays the same.
However in an amusing turning of the tables, it now seems that in one state (I cant remember which), the postal votes are now favouring Trump, as they are the post bags from specific Trump favoured districts, so he might actually change his tune soon and want those postal votes to continue being counted.
Sharpiegate - Accusations of Sharpie votes being discounted have been clearly refuted by the officials in Arizona, they've made it clear all votes will be counted, so that's simply fake news it seems.
I believe trump is raising legal issues with many of the votes. Who knows on what legal grounds he's actually raising the cases though, or whether it's got any justification. One feels he's just desperately clutching at straws to try to create any mess he can, and save face when he loses. I.e. will still claim he won even when he lost, and will stick to that story forever.
madrid_gill
Vital 1st Team Regular
According to the Guardian, Biden's already won Wisconsin and Arizona.
alphabet_king
Vital 1st Team Regular
I think a lot of media outlets are calling them when they are 'likely' rather than actually official. BBC is not calling them until it's mathematically safe/beyond any reasonable doubt, i believe.
...unless the BBC figures are out of date, of course....
Wisconsin - i could just about accept calling - BBC are reporting it's 0.6% ahead, with 99% of votes counted. But even then it only takes a swing of 0.3% of the remaining 1% of votes. Who knows. I think Sky have called it now also.
Arizona - i think that's some way from being decided. According to BBC Biden is only 1.4% ahead, with only 86% of votes counted. So IMO still a fair chance of a swing from one to the other while the remaining 14% of votes are counted.
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Who is attacking "legitimate" votes ?
Only doubtful votes should be "attacked".
And if "your side" lost by a sliver ... under questionable circumstances..... surely you would want some sort of investigation ?
I've been a Counting Agent (US: Poll Watcher) dozens of times. i.e. in a Council Hall watching a Count.
I know where the weaknesses are - which is why we watch out for human error (common).... or deliberate mishandling (not common).
[At one Count a bundle of 100 was allocated to the wrong candidate. It was a Council election in a small Ward - and would have changed to result if not spotted.]
Ballot papers issued in the Polling Station are pretty secure.
Absent a conspiracy by the several Polling Staff .....
.... there is little chance of a Ballot Box being "stuffed".
But by far the biggest weakness is Postal Voting.
Thousands, millions of ballot papers are "floating around" for weeks.
Who knows how many are intercepted, or the voter "helped" ?
When people had to give a reason for a PV, the numbers could be controlled and returns monitored.
But going to the opposite extreme of issuing PV's to all (as in Pennsylvania) and the risks multiply.
Identity checks seem non-existent (in the UK).
People with 2 addresses (e.g. students) can be registered in two places - and get a PV for one or both of them.
Back to the US election.
If PVs were no problem, surely they would be issued pretty evenly to both Dems and Reps?
Yet this election shows that they have not been issued anything like evenly. Hmmm.
Lastly, have you noticed most commentators keep repeating the same phrase;
"No evidence of widespread fraud".
"evidence" . Not if you don't look.
"widespread" it doesn't need to be. Just in key marginal areas.
Baghdad_Rob
Vital 1st Team Regular
The Republicans have been consistent that any ballots that were cast on the 3rd November or had a postal mark dated no later than the 3rd should be counted, but any postal ballets received after election day with no evidence that it was posted before the cut off should be discounted.
The Democrats insist that all ballots should be included even if the ballot might have been posted after the 3rd when results from the other states were already counted and declared.
The thing is, Trump never actually said he wanted counting to stop. However the likes of CNN reported it as if he did. He called for voting to be stopped in the context that if a bag of 10,000 ballots was suddenly found hidden in the cupboard with no evidence of where it came from or how long it had been there then the ballots shouldn't be counted.
Well it was the officials in Arizona who were insisting that sharpies should be used so of course they will claim that.
The problem is there is nothing against the rules for people to use ball point pens but it looks a bit dodgy if officials were stealing the pens off people and insisting they used sharpies. It also looks a bit dodgy if this practice was seemingly only happening in areas where you would expect the majority to vote Republican.
Maybe everything is above board and all votes were actually counted, but it still looks iffy.
There have been a lot of weird stuff going on with videos of people wheeling what look to be official ballot boxes to their cars, videos of counters looking around shiftily, picking up a pen and then seemingly writing on people's ballot papers and other stuff. And this on top of Biden suddenly getting 100k plus votes in a sudden burst when no other candidate got any votes and this happening in three states (although in the first case, an official spotted it early on, realised something was amiss and reversed the votes).
And there is all the Project Veritas videos showing people associated with the Democrats admitting vote harvesting etc.
Baring in mind how both parties insisted before the election that the other party would cheat then it is really important for all these accusations to be investigated and cleared up rather than officials saying all is fine and blocking any investigation.
I'm sure if the roles were reversed those condemning Trump asking for investigation into allegations would claim corruption if Biden wasn't allowed to cry foul. Although I am sure if it goes to the Supreme Court and some results were reversed leading to a Trump victory then the left will cry corruption.
All the claims need serious investigating otherwise the Biden presidency will always be under the suspicion of corruption even if all is above board.
alphabet_king
Vital 1st Team Regular
I don't remember seeing this prediction at all, personally. a lot were hoping for it, but no one 'predicted' a 'landslide'. I think a lot of people predicted a biden win, but not by a landslide IMO.
In fact, i watched one polling company who claimed to have called last election correctly, also very confident that Trump would win this time around as well.
"Antrim County, Michigan officials on Wednesday promised to review local election results for errors after the reliably Republican district was listed as having gone solidly for Joe Biden in Tuesday's election.
Antrim County is known for its dependable GOP (Republican) turnout, but on Wednesday morning county election authorities said Joe Biden had received 7,700 votes from county residents, about 3,000 more than Trump's total.
Following outcry, County Clerk Sheryl Guy said officials would review the "apparently skewed results" to see if an error had been made. "
One of the problems that the US has which the UK does not have is.....
...a lot of US voting is done on or with machines...
...(remember "chads" hanging from ballot cards in Florida 2000 ?).
i.e actual Ballot papers are not visible at the time of counting.
So an error (let's assume not intentional) may not be spotted.... unless the "result" is heavily skewed (as in Antrim Cty).
In the UK, our ballot papers remain in full view, in trays marked for each candidate.
With a 4 year narrative of how "awful" Trump is, surely it is amazing that anyone voted for him ?
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
With a 4 year narrative of how "awful" Trump is, surely it is amazing that anyone voted for him ?
Anti-Democrats would vote for whoever the Republicans put up, in the same way that so many in the south east and south over here would never vote for Labour, whatever their local Tory candidate got up to - Damien Green, Charlie Elphicke, Michael Fallon and Craig McKinley would all get in if they stood in the next election despite the lurid stories or, in Elphicke's case, jail sentence.
There did not need to be a narrative about Trump - you just need to watch and hear his Disinfectant injecting, Covid denying, Climate change denying, P*ssy grabbing non-denying, words and actions. No commentary required.
Hard to know just what anyone supporting him would regard as unbalanced and unacceptable behaviour. Not much scope really.
".. watch and hear his .."
How many times did the MSM show us the original statements - rather than "framed"?
And if so, how many in full, in context ?
On the rare occasion that our MSM actually showed the footage, I've waited for the supposed "gotcha" ... and waited......
Trump did not "suggest" injecting disinfectant. He looked sideways to an adviser and asked him a question ....based on disinfectant clearing Covid from surfaces.
It was a "journalist" who "suggested" injecting it.
Suggesting that Covid does not merit the extreme response of shutting the economy is not "denying".
If you are thinking of the "hoax" allegation, here is the quote in context (with someone's comment added.)
"Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, you know that right? Coronavirus, they’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, ‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa. They can’t even count. No, they can’t. They can’t count their votes.
"One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.’ That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was not a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They’d been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning. They lost. It’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax."
Our reading of these comments is that Trump is saying Democratic criticism of him is a hoax, not that the coronavirus doesn’t exist or wasn’t real. We’ve been unable to find other comments of Trump suggesting that."
The same applies to "Climate Change" (note: what happened to Global Warming ??)unbalanced
Criticising an OTT response isn't "denying".
The "pussy-grabbing" quote was about star-struck groupies "offering" themselves (in the '80s or '90s ?).
Not especially edifying, but "groupies" offering themselves wasn't exactly unusual at the time (and who knows, maybe still goes on?).
The last one may have been the easiest to make something out of....
...but it takes a special kind of creative, activist "journalist" to make something out of almost every utterance.
So are 50% of American voters "unbalanced", "support unacceptable behaviour"... or is it that they saw through the MSM spin ?
Georgia's Senate election has interesting features.
Multiple Candidates from the same Party - and a run-off between the top two.
CandidatesVotes%
Seat 2 Special Election
R Kelly Loeffler Runoff 1,257,923 26.06%
D Raphael Warnock Runoff 1,578,068 32.70%
R Doug Collins 969,208 20.08%
D Deborah Jackson 316,399 6.56%
D Matt Lieberman 133,626 2.77%
D Tamara Johnson-Shealey 104,220 2.16%
D Jamesia James 91,838 1.90%
R Derrick Grayson 50,757 1.05%
(edit: why do the carefully spaced columns disappear ??)
Multiple Candidates from the same Party - and a run-off between the top two.
CandidatesVotes%
Seat 2 Special Election
R Kelly Loeffler Runoff 1,257,923 26.06%
D Raphael Warnock Runoff 1,578,068 32.70%
R Doug Collins 969,208 20.08%
D Deborah Jackson 316,399 6.56%
D Matt Lieberman 133,626 2.77%
D Tamara Johnson-Shealey 104,220 2.16%
D Jamesia James 91,838 1.90%
R Derrick Grayson 50,757 1.05%
(edit: why do the carefully spaced columns disappear ??)
Therealwaldo
Vital Squad Member
Pathetic excuse making.
Baghdad_Rob
Vital 1st Team Regular
Nothing to see here
No idea who the person is but burning of ballot papers is surely illegal.
No idea who the person is but burning of ballot papers is surely illegal.
mehmets_curlies
Vital Squad Member
Bollox about pussy grabbing comment. He meant exactly what he said...that because he was rich and famous he could force himself on pretty much any woman, even if they didn't want him to. A statement to encourage sexual abuse. It was despicable then and is despicable now and you should be ashamed of yourself for defending him over it. The man is a nasty piece of work and, no, I couldn't care less about his politics or fiscal abilities. He is plain and simple, a horrible man
Vambogills
Vital Football Hero
This is fake and already discredited. The sheets are confirmed as samples and not actual voting ballots by the state. Fact checking saves wasted time.
