Time to move on says Club...

[Matic]

I noticed the supporters were chanting 'Y army' seemingly louder today.

Because of how lazily the club are handling the situation. Their press release was ALWAYS going to have the opposite impact they hoped for. It's what happened last time and they made it even worse then by trying to forcibly fix the situation. That is not how you do this... It is so corporate and as RD said, to them, it's a tick box checked off. The club are to blame for this and need to invest some time, effort and money into truly addressing the issue. Some will say they need to 'educate' their fans... NO... nothing gets people's backs up more than the condescending use of the word 'educate'. The club needs to humanise the issue... make it real... make it clear. They need to seriously consider the atmosphere within our stadium. Its shite. Our fans have been dreadful since the last game at The Lane. Engage with supporters groups ffs! Not just the THST who are as corporate and sterile as them.

Racism in this country is the worst I have seen it in my lifetime. The second we see an anti-racism group start to get a bigger voice and try to get people to change the way they think, the push-back is unreal. People in this country are bloody-minded to the point of self-harm. "Why should I have to think about every little thing I say?" "These people are just snowflakes. They wanna toughen up a bit."

I was with someone, who I wont name, that when Zaha was sent off against us said, "he's going to say he was only sent off because he was black!" This person isnt a Spurs fan, and doesn't like football. THAT is where we are as a society. One-size fits all attitude to issues, hoping to avoid having to think differently.

I'm not Jewish. I'm not Black. For all my sins, I'm as pasty and English as they come. I am not qualified to speak on behalf of those who are marginalised. All I can do is listen and act in kindness, from individual to individual. If an individual is a dick, its because that person is a dick. They are not a dick because of their religion or colour or background.

This is not a small or simple task.

 

[Pompey Yid]

Because of how lazily the club are handling the situation. Their press release was ALWAYS going to have the opposite impact they hoped for. It's what happened last time and they made it even worse then by trying to forcibly fix the situation. That is not how you do this... It is so corporate and as RD said, to them, it's a tick box checked off. The club are to blame for this and need to invest some time, effort and money into truly addressing the issue. Some will say they need to 'educate' their fans... NO... nothing gets people's backs up more than the condescending use of the word 'educate'. The club needs to humanise the issue... make it real... make it clear. They need to seriously consider the atmosphere within our stadium. Its shite. Our fans have been dreadful since the last game at The Lane. Engage with supporters groups ffs! Not just the THST who are as corporate and sterile as them.

Racism in this country is the worst I have seen it in my lifetime. The second we see an anti-racism group start to get a bigger voice and try to get people to change the way they think, the push-back is unreal. People in this country are bloody-minded to the point of self-harm. "Why should I have to think about every little thing I say?" "These people are just snowflakes. They wanna toughen up a bit."

I was with someone, who I wont name, that when Zaha was sent off against us said, "he's going to say he was only sent off because he was black!" This person isnt a Spurs fan, and doesn't like football. THAT is where we are as a society. One-size fits all attitude to issues, hoping to avoid having to think differently.

I'm not Jewish. I'm not Black. For all my sins, I'm as pasty and English as they come. I am not qualified to speak on behalf of those who are marginalised. All I can do is listen and act in kindness, from individual to individual. If an individual is a dick, its because that person is a dick. They are not a dick because of their religion or colour or background.

This is not a small or simple task.

Matic you say Racism is the worst you have seen in your life in this country, your life time, that's a big YES!, way back in the 60's n 70's, just pure "Not Knowing and ignorance" plus thinking it was funny resulted in racism.

For me it has got worse since the BLM malarky, prior to it, yes you had incidents but nowhere near as bad as now, ramming it down peops throats means a reaction, in this case way more more racism, and this reaction isn't just here, but everywhere in the world.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

Matic you say Racism is the worst you have seen in your life in this country, your life time, that's a big YES!, way back in the 60's n 70's, just pure "Not Knowing and ignorance" plus thinking it was funny resulted in racism.

For me it has got worse since the BLM malarky, prior to it, yes you had incidents but nowhere near as bad as now, ramming it down peops throats means a reaction, in this case way more more racism, and this reaction isn't just here, but everywhere in the world.

Alternatively BLM is a response to increased racism?

Personally I think Brexit - pre and post - has been more responsible than any other phenomena. Nationalism and jingoism have risen significantly since Cameron announced the referendum, particularly with white working class people who had/have become increasingly marginalised and isolated in British society.

 

[Matic]

Alternatively BLM is a response to increased racism?

Personally I think Brexit - pre and post - has been more responsible than any other phenomena. Nationalism and jingoism have risen significantly since Cameron announced the referendum, particularly with white working class people who had/have become increasingly marginalised and isolated in British society.

This is exactly the case and add in all that happened across the pond with Trumpism and the rise in personality politics and crazy conspiracy theorists. Racism hasn't gotten worse because of BLM. BLM have become more active and vocal because racism has gotten so much worse.

 

[Spursex]

This is exactly the case and add in all that happened across the pond with Trumpism and the rise in personality politics and crazy conspiracy theorists. Racism hasn't gotten worse because of BLM. BLM have become more active and vocal because racism has gotten so much worse.

Let's not forget in all this that the BLM movement was in response to events in the USA, and came to prominence long before Trump was elected.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/origins-of-a-movement/

Of course the movement has now spread, but at it's core was the attempt to fight back against (as they saw it) violent oppression by an armed police force, who have always shot first and asked questions after.

Here in the UK the single biggest culprit for young black deaths, are young backs - that doesn't make it any better, but it does put our country into some form of perspective.

 

[muttley]

This is exactly the case and add in all that happened across the pond with Trumpism and the rise in personality politics and crazy conspiracy theorists. Racism hasn't gotten worse because of BLM. BLM have become more active and vocal because racism has gotten so much worse.

We had no better example than this at the end of last week. When Michael Antonio was asked my an interviewer about Kurt Zouma, the answer was.....

"I've got a question for you. Do you think what he's done is worse than racism?"

"I'm not condoning a thing that he's done. I don't agree with what he has done at all."

"But there's people that have been convicted and been caught for racism, and have played football afterwards. They got an eight-game punishment or something like that, but people are now calling for people to be sacked and to lose their livelihood.

"I've just got to ask this question to everyone out there: is what he's [Zouma] done worse than what the people convicted of racism done?"

It has clearly become vogue to bring racism into everything because of movements like BLM. Even when there is absolutely no justification for it, like when a team mate does abhorrent things to a cat.

 

[Matic]

We had no better example than this at the end of last week. When Michael Antonio was asked my an interviewer about Kurt Zouma, the answer was.....

"I've got a question for you. Do you think what he's done is worse than racism?"

"I'm not condoning a thing that he's done. I don't agree with what he has done at all."

"But there's people that have been convicted and been caught for racism, and have played football afterwards. They got an eight-game punishment or something like that, but people are now calling for people to be sacked and to lose their livelihood.

"I've just got to ask this question to everyone out there: is what he's [Zouma] done worse than what the people convicted of racism done?"

It has clearly become vogue to bring racism into everything because of movements like BLM. Even when there is absolutely no justification for it, like when a team mate does abhorrent things to a cat.

That really was ridiculous to see. It really did come across as a footballer trying to sound smarter than he is whilst trying to "whataboutism" his way out of an awkward situation.

And here lies the problem... Is it the BLM movement that gave Antonio the idea to compare the beating of an animal by a team-mate to racism in general, or is Antonio just a person who does use race as a get out of jail free card?

 

[philsaspur]

We had no better example than this at the end of last week. When Michael Antonio was asked my an interviewer about Kurt Zouma, the answer was.....

"I've got a question for you. Do you think what he's done is worse than racism?"

"I'm not condoning a thing that he's done. I don't agree with what he has done at all."

"But there's people that have been convicted and been caught for racism, and have played football afterwards. They got an eight-game punishment or something like that, but people are now calling for people to be sacked and to lose their livelihood.

"I've just got to ask this question to everyone out there: is what he's [Zouma] done worse than what the people convicted of racism done?"

It has clearly become vogue to bring racism into everything because of movements like BLM. Even when there is absolutely no justification for it, like when a team mate does abhorrent things to a cat.

Agreed Mutt, I remember thinking the exact same thing when Antonio's remarks came to my attention. What on earth had one thing to do with the other. Deflection of the highest order.

You'd have a long bloody wait and probably get nowhere if you start comparing reaction and punishment to every heinous act to others gone before. As I said pure deflection.

All you can do is treat each incident as it comes.

Imo Kurt Zouma was a scumbag for what he did. Yes racists are also scum but don't try and use either to downplay the other.

 

[Matic]

Let's not forget in all this that the BLM movement was in response to events in the USA, and came to prominence long before Trump was elected.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/origins-of-a-movement/

Of course the movement has now spread, but at it's core was the attempt to fight back against (as they saw it) violent oppression by an armed police force, who have always shot first and asked questions after.

Here in the UK the single biggest culprit for young black deaths, are young backs - that doesn't make it any better, but it does put our country into some form of perspective.

Of course, BLM dates back decades in its message - just not in name.

What Trumpism did was give a voice to White Nationalism, which just happens to be rife within law forces in the US. The spread of the movement was more about global solidarity against systemic racism, which does still exist in this country.

But there is no comparison between us and the US. I'm apologise to our American friends on here for saying this, but the US is rotting from the inside out at the moment. The UK is trying its best to follow suit.

Back on the topic of Spurs, the club could be a beacon for change within its actions but sadly I cannot see them doing it. Positive change will always come about through a strong sense of community and a feeling of wanting the same things. There are not many better unifiers in this world than football, so why does our club fail so badly at it?

 

[Pompey Yid]

Sorry I have read everything, but I still believe in this country BLM did make things worse than what they were, my opinion anyway, I do not take any notice of other countries and their relevant problems.

I also think blaming Brexit, which I was all for, is wrong.

My Yank oppo's reckon things have got worse than what they already were, where the black population, are concerned everybody is walking on egg shells n tippy toes, looks, words everything has to be thought about, think that sounds very much like here now.

Matic following suit, spot on, its been going on for bloody years.

As for the "its cos of the colour of my skin" that's been around for years past, but got even stronger when "War monger" Blair strengthened the Race Act of the time even more, I should know cos I got accused of it 3 times in the late 90 early 00's, all 3 cases against me cleared by the Race Board in Scum.

We now live in a country where everything you say, do, write can be construed with an ist or an ism etc behind it.

As for freedom we are losing it fast, a dictatorial state is forming, don't do this/that, do this/that, do as we say! I know a lot on here will not agree but that is the way I see it.

The country I served and loved is going down a very slippery path.

 

[meee93]

I can't say I understand the logic that using the word "Yid" in a positive manner can perpetuate racism. If anything surely the impact is more of a reminder that antisemitism exists and that it still is an isssue in society. Blaming spurs fans for the actions of these degenerates seems a bit arse about face to me and not actually addressing the real problems. But as always, more than happy to be educated if I'm missing something.

As someone who generally defends political correctness, I can't help but think that this is the lastest move in the wrong direction of creating a list of "bad" words instead of what PC should be about in addressing actions and prejudices. Context is so key in language usage and I feel that in the last 5 to 10 years that "bad word irrespective of context" (which surely is a contradiction, surely context free words are impossible?) has come to the forefront far too much.

 

[muttley]

Of course, what I probably should have added is whether Antonio learnt from that interview. Will we see a better version of him next time around because he has reflected and realised he was out of order? Has someone close to him sat him down and explained what he did in that moment was simply ridiculous?

I'd like to think so.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

Of course, what I probably should have added is whether Antonio learnt from that interview. Will we see a better version of him next time around because he has reflected and realised he was out of order? Has someone close to him sat him down and explained what he did in that moment was simply ridiculous?

I'd like to think so.

I hope so. It doesn't strike me as the sort of thing a person(s) does on the spur of the moment. I believe the RSPCA are working with him to help him understand animal cruelty.

 

[Real Deal]

Sorry I have read everything, but I still believe in this country BLM did make things worse than what they were, my opinion anyway, I do not take any notice of other countries and their relevant problems.

I also think blaming Brexit, which I was all for, is wrong.

My Yank oppo's reckon things have got worse than what they already were, where the black population, are concerned everybody is walking on egg shells n tippy toes, looks, words everything has to be thought about, think that sounds very much like here now.

Matic following suit, spot on, its been going on for bloody years.

As for the "its cos of the colour of my skin" that's been around for years past, but got even stronger when "War monger" Blair strengthened the Race Act of the time even more, I should know cos I got accused of it 3 times in the late 90 early 00's, all 3 cases against me cleared by the Race Board in Scum.

We now live in a country where everything you say, do, write can be construed with an ist or an ism etc behind it.

As for freedom we are losing it fast, a dictatorial state is forming, don't do this/that, do this/that, do as we say! I know a lot on here will not agree but that is the way I see it.

The country I served and loved is going down a very slippery path.

It's the censorship era. Ask Joe Rogan.

 

[Real Deal]

Of course, what I probably should have added is whether Antonio learnt from that interview. Will we see a better version of him next time around because he has reflected and realised he was out of order? Has someone close to him sat him down and explained what he did in that moment was simply ridiculous?

I'd like to think so.

Darren Lewis started turning it into a race issue on Talksport last week. He said he wasn't but he went off course and did.

 

[Spursex]

I can't say I understand the logic that using the word "Yid" in a positive manner can perpetuate racism. If anything surely the impact is more of a reminder that antisemitism exists and that it still is an isssue in society. Blaming spurs fans for the actions of these degenerates seems a bit arse about face to me and not actually addressing the real problems. But as always, more than happy to be educated if I'm missing something.

As someone who generally defends political correctness, I can't help but think that this is the lastest move in the wrong direction of creating a list of "bad" words instead of what PC should be about in addressing actions and prejudices. Context is so key in language usage and I feel that in the last 5 to 10 years that "bad word irrespective of context" (which surely is a contradiction, surely context free words are impossible?) has come to the forefront far too much.

Mee, do as I did and speak to a couple of Jewish people - even better if they are fans and hear what they say about it.

It's a label, it's a label that some use to hurt and the people I spoke to have been badly hurt by its use and still are.

This is why hearing this personal testimony and how the word was being used in an entirely derogatory and hurtful way, and our use of it as an excuse for it, I will not use it again. If you speak to Jewish people with a view, you'll find few who hear or see it being used in a positive way.

 

[Pompey Yid]

Having read all and given my fact opinions as I know them, I now have to ask....

Is the subject of the Yid word being racist, 100% down to the Anti-Jew actions/attacks that are perpetuating our society as a whole?

The ratings of reported Anti-Jew actions/attacks has gone through the roof and these are only the ones reported....

So again I say! it is down to mass immigration and the amount of Muslim, Jew hating Arabs/others that we are allowing to live and set up communities of mini-enclaves of their originality in this once great land of ours.

Us/them/others is starting to appear in this land for the worse.
Personally I bloody hate it.

 

[Pompey Yid]

Morning all, wevver pretty damm good down these ere part, Sun has got his hat on at the mo anyway lol!

I have spoke of freedom of speech, or the lack of well! I read an article this morning by one of my fave writers/critics, here goes...

It seems a geezer, a Civil Servant by the way, of mixed race, complained that an NHS Quango of being obsessed with White Privilege and Toxic positivity, what ever that means, the Quango is Health Education England (HEE).

This Quango takes a load of money out of the NHS, £4bn, and sends peops off to attend courses of White Privilege or Unconscious Bias.

He says cos he has spoken out he has been labelled a Racist, because he spoke his mind, he believes that workers are afraid to speak their mind and that he doesn't think he would have spoke out if he hadn't come from a mixed race background.

That can only mean one thing, others are afraid to speak their mind, which in itself makes for a "Toxic" work place.

He feels doubtful about speaking his mind again in this once-free country.

How many times has it been said "but you can't say that these days".

In a truly free country any view other than exhortations to violence or serious crime should be able to be heard.

We are in the scenario, that criticise a woman you are a mysogonist, criticise a man and there are no cries of misandry, nor me never heard the word before.

Positive discrimination is acceptable for black people but not white and ditto for females but not males.

So we do not have equality in any meaningful sense of the word.

No freedom, no equality.

Does this get you thinking, angry or for that matter anything else?

 

[muttley]

Morning all, wevver pretty damm good down these ere part, Sun has got his hat on at the mo anyway lol!

I have spoke of freedom of speech, or the lack of well! I read an article this morning by one of my fave writers/critics, here goes...

It seems a geezer, a Civil Servant by the way, of mixed race, complained that an NHS Quango of being obsessed with White Privilege and Toxic positivity, what ever that means, the Quango is Health Education England (HEE).

This Quango takes a load of money out of the NHS, £4bn, and sends peops off to attend courses of White Privilege or Unconscious Bias.

He says cos he has spoken out he has been labelled a Racist, because he spoke his mind, he believes that workers are afraid to speak their mind and that he doesn't think he would have spoke out if he hadn't come from a mixed race background.

That can only mean one thing, others are afraid to speak their mind, which in itself makes for a "Toxic" work place.

He feels doubtful about speaking his mind again in this once-free country.

How many times has it been said "but you can't say that these days".

In a truly free country any view other than exhortations to violence or serious crime should be able to be heard.

We are in the scenario, that criticise a woman you are a mysogonist, criticise a man and there are no cries of misandry, nor me never heard the word before.

Positive discrimination is acceptable for black people but not white and ditto for females but not males.

So we do not have equality in any meaningful sense of the word.

No freedom, no equality.

Does this get you thinking, angry or for that matter anything else?

I always tell people that you don't fix 2 millenniums of inequality and inequity with more of the same in the 3rd one, but the other way round.

I personally don't think the world is ready to push back on positive discrimination yet for fear of being called prejudice. It will at some point. You can tell the energy is building in certain groups.