The Politics Thread | Page 759 | Vital Football

The Politics Thread

The Fear said:
The Independent is mainstream media
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Right. So the big question. Can it be trusted or not?

Do we trust the mainstream media these days?

This is a general question by the way. I have not seen or read anything to do with french streets. Nor do I want to add to my over thinking, non sleeping tosser of a brain.

I'm just talking in general here.
 
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colavfc said:
Right. So the big question. Can it be trusted or not?

Do we trust the mainstream media these days?
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This is the politics thread isn't it.

I trust myself first and foremost, I try to take information from all angles, including the media that I can't stand (so I see balance, not just the media I 'like')

Most media is trying to sell a story to suit their readership, many of the press just like to whip up the public, aided by the politicians, into a frenzy and the politicians want this, so (as was so well put by TH) the country divides and they do what they want.

I certainly don't trust the conspiracy theorists or nut jobs online, also whipping up hatred, and succeeding. Many of whom suggest they don't trust the media, but seem to do a fucking good job at being wound up and whipped into a frenzy, by them.

The truth, by and large, is usually the boring bit that doesn't sell papers/or fill the tv shows. That is the sad truth, no one wants that, it doesn't sell.
 
seanie ward said:
0pen your eyes and turn the telly up, it was the main news all day, im not a wind up merchant , also it was nice to see the french coastguards escorting them out, making sure, there gone out of their waters and dont come back ,, shocking,,,seanie
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Don't speak to me like that either. Im not some little women you can talk down too. I won't tolerate yours or anyone rudeness

There was nothing on the news like that. Macron wouldn't be doing that. You have countered what you said anyway with what you say the French were doing.

I'm far more in the know than you are. You see everything through Tory gammon eyes.

If you don't like the way I am speaking don't speak to me like that.

I see you weren't rude to others who questioned you. That cos they are men
 
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The Fear said:
This is the politics thread isn't it.

I trust myself first and foremost, I try to take information from all angles, including the media that I can't stand (so I see balance, not just the media I 'like')

Most media is trying to sell a story to suit their readership, many of the press just like to whip up the public, aided by the politicians, into a frenzy and the politicians want this, so (as was so well put by TH) the country divides and they do what they want.

I certainly don't trust the conspiracy theorists or nut jobs online, also whipping up hatred, and succeeding. Many of whom suggest they don't trust the media, but seem to do a fucking good job at being wound up and whipped into a frenzy, by them.

The truth, by and large, is usually the boring bit that doesn't sell papers/or fill the tv shows. That is the sad truth, no one wants that, it doesn't sell.
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Yes I get your point.

Our own eyes can only travel so far though and I suppose it's TRYING our best to see through the bullshit.

I worry that like with that 'period' before when 'psychologists' were out on the front line spouting their opinions I myself think maybe the main stream media is more swayed towards psychological control rather than the truth.

Like with the popular opinion that the government wants us divided and arguing amongst ourselves rather than looking at what they are doing. For example. And how do we hit people..... Media/news/social media
 
colavfc said:
Yes I get your point.

Our own eyes can only travel so far though and I suppose it's TRYING our best to see through the bullshit.

I worry that like with that 'period' before when 'psychologists' were out on the front line spouting their opinions I myself think maybe the main stream media is more swayed towards psychological control rather than the truth.

Like with the popular opinion that the government wants us divided and arguing amongst ourselves rather than looking at what they are doing. For example. And how do we hit people..... Media/news/social media
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Doubt you can get Peston there? But just watched and he had Prof Sir John Curtice talking about what I have posted about today. No interest in the truth, because it is boring, all papers/sites/media need clicks and the extreme views are what get the views. It then whips people up and divides. Perfect for the politicians getting away with all and sundry.
 
col8 said:
Kia Starmer has now announced he will re-nationalise the railways in 5 years.
Good luck with that one, how long does he think it will be dragged through the courts?

This is one of those statements that is meaningless, if he wants to nationalise something do Water, Electricity things that will benefit the people of the country.
Both need massive Investment which the government will have to stump up so the shareholders can still take billions out of the industry.
How nice for the investment in the water industry so we dont have water shortages and turds floating down our local rivers.
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Details, he's not ending the contracts and no current operator has a right or clause to be guaranteed an extension.

Trains are subtly different to water/lecky to my understanding - but as said before, I'm in full agreement on them anyway, as they already fall foul of monopoly issues.
 
col8 said:
Kia Starmer has now announced he will re-nationalise the railways in 5 years.
Good luck with that one, how long does he think it will be dragged through the courts?

This is one of those statements that is meaningless, if he wants to nationalise something do Water, Electricity things that will benefit the people of the country.
Both need massive Investment which the government will have to stump up so the shareholders can still take billions out of the industry.
How nice for the investment in the water industry so we dont have water shortages and turds floating down our local rivers.
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Yeah, they should all be publicly owned, run by proper business experts and the profits should be ploughed back into the country, not into shareholders pockets (nothing against shareholders, just shouldn't be any for these industries) but the cost at the moment would prevent any chance of doing it surely?

But with the rail networks, he is talking of just not renewing with the private operators when their contracts run out.

Just then depends on how they organise it, who they get to run it, as it makes sense to get it back into public ownership, but not sure I trust any politicians to get it right either.

We can but dream
 
The Fear said:
Some of you are obsessed. They were clearing an illegal migrant camp. We do the same thing at times, moving on all sorts, including gypsies and the like.

Absolutely sick of the right-wing bollox being spouted, this site is becoming unpleasant to be on.

People marching through the streets, ffs, they are far from marching, many of them are poor, wretched souls, victims of organised and vile gangs, promised all sorts in the countries they come to, and then left to rot on the streets, or die in the sea.

And then you come on here and some ignorant **** tells others to open their eyes.

Just fuck off. Had enough of this pollution.
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We've all been poisoned by profit and engagement. Real journalism got dealt a major blow when we started putting thumbs up on the things we liked and algorithms decided what we would and wouldn't see.

They must be studying it now because it has become so problematic. I don't know if its true but they say some people don't have an internal monologue. They can't hear their own voice in their head. Or that there are levels to people's ability to imagine objects in their mind. If you asked someone to imagine an apple some would only see a black-and-white outline while others can see full color.

The power and speed of social media is terrifying. The seeds of immigration have been planted in the UK for 60 or 70 years. It's all very new to Ireland and watching how quickly right-wing agitators have managed to influence disenfranchised people in Ireland is scary. And we know nearly all of this originates outside of Ireland.

My bet is that it is Russia, ever since the war in Ukraine and Ireland had a little beef with Russia this immigration stuff has massively escalated. Refugees from the Middle East and Africa have not exactly been welcome in Ireland over the past 10-15 years but the hate and aggression was not there 2 years ago.
 
Yup, it's fine for opinion but not fact.

I've said before, take LGB stuff. The US anti's are bold enough to explain their process.

Make it about kids. Bring in drag. Drag want to get near kids - fire the parents up who know fuck all but understandably panic and let them read across to further things they don't understand.

Same for books. Bring in drag, rinse repeat, add blacks and hispanics because folks are already angry - and banned. Job done.

It's impacted the UK now and it began long before the likes of GB News and the ilk of Lawrence Fox repeating the same bollocks, but at least we hold to account a little bit better than the US on a legal front.

But even then it's far from perfect here. Hence my regular rants lol

The absolute irony being the most divisive official media out there is foreign owned. I wonder why and what they want to achieve?
 
CDX_EIRE said:
We've all been poisoned by profit and engagement. Real journalism got dealt a major blow when we started putting thumbs up on the things we liked and algorithms decided what we would and wouldn't see.
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Yes, agreed, definitely wasn't a criticism of the press, I had to find out, when I was co-owner of this network, what sold and what didn't. I could pour hours into an indepth article, it would get a nice reception from those who were interested in reading that sort of thing, I could throw up a bit of bollox about made up (not by me!) transfer speculation and it would get 10 times the views - and then some people would criticise it as clickbait.

The media are a business, they aren't here to do anything other than make a profit. And if 'our' demand is for the shock tactics and scaremongering, they are more than equipped to provide it. It is then down to us as individuals to decipher fact from fiction, right from wrong, and this is where the problem comes. Many read a headline and then take it as fact to spout their nonsense.
 
One of the major problems - and i've said it before - with our politics is it is so adversarial. They sit opposite each other shouting, as opposed to sitting around and looking at what is best for the greater good. If one has a good idea, the other (not with all mp's but you get the point) the other side has to rip it apart, because they are the opposition.
 
The Fear said:
Yeah, they should all be publicly owned, run by proper business experts and the profits should be ploughed back into the country, not into shareholders pockets (nothing against shareholders, just shouldn't be any for these industries) but the cost at the moment would prevent any chance of doing it surely?

But with the rail networks, he is talking of just not renewing with the private operators when their contracts run out.

Just then depends on how they organise it, who they get to run it, as it makes sense to get it back into public ownership, but not sure I trust any politicians to get it right either.

We can but dream
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As someone who well remembers the old industries mentioned above, and the old British Railways all I would say is be very careful what you wish for. They were run like holiday camps, a haven for those that had an aversion to a decent days work. If the way the NHS is run is anything to go by perhaps best left as they are but with stricter controls.
 
The Fear said:
One of the major problems - and i've said it before - with our politics is it is so adversarial. They sit opposite each other shouting, as opposed to sitting around and looking at what is best for the greater good. If one has a good idea, the other (not with all mp's but you get the point) the other side has to rip it apart, because they are the opposition.
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Oh so this.

Been on about this for years. What a shambles. Grown adults charged with making the most important decisions of all shouting, drowning each other out and making stupid posh toff noises when it should proper, respectful and dignified debate. All until some person in a big chair tells them to calm down. WTF!.

It's is not acceptable now. I don't give a shit that it's tradition or how things just are. No way.

Imagine this behaviour when making work decisions, having discussions in a board room , supermarket, on a building site. Behaviour like they do in Parliament would lead to the sack or in the case of the latter a punch on the nose I expect.

I'd like to know. Do any other Parliaments or equivalent act like that?.
 
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Melon Donkey said:
Oh so this.

Been on about this for years. What a shambles. Grown adults charged with making the most important decisions of all shouting, drowning each other out and making stupid posh toff noises when it should proper, respectful and dignified debate. All until some person in a big chair tells them to calm down. WTF!.

It's is not acceptable now. I don't give a shit that it's tradition or how things just are. No way.

Imagine this behaviour when making work decisions, having discussions in a board room , supermarket, on a building site. Behaviour like they do in Parliament would lead to the sack or in the case of the latter a punch on the nose I expect.

I'd like to know. Do any other Parliaments or equivalent act like that?.
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Yes they do Melon. I have seen numerous videos of politicians in parliaments all around the world knocking seven bells out of each other. I would however say that as our House is called the Mother of all Parliaments, they have probably modeled themselves on us
 
wittonite said:
As someone who well remembers the old industries mentioned above, and the old British Railways all I would say is be very careful what you wish for. They were run like holiday camps, a haven for those that had an aversion to a decent days work. If the way the NHS is run is anything to go by perhaps best left as they are but with stricter controls.
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Still are.

But as per my post, I was clearly not wishing for a return to that, I was hoping (and said I am not at all convinced politicians would deliver) a leap forward, with proper people running them, profiting and those profits going to the country, not to shareholders.
 
The Fear said:
Still are.

But as per my post, I was clearly not wishing for a return to that, I was hoping (and said I am not at all convinced politicians would deliver) a leap forward, with proper people running them, profiting and those profits going to the country, not to shareholders.
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It was a generic careful what you wish for as opposed to a response to your post.
 
Melon Donkey said:
Oh so this.

Been on about this for years. What a shambles. Grown adults charged with making the most important decisions of all shouting, drowning each other out and making stupid posh toff noises when it should proper, respectful and dignified debate. All until some person in a big chair tells them to calm down. WTF!.

It's is not acceptable now. I don't give a shit that it's tradition or how things just are. No way.

Imagine this behaviour when making work decisions, having discussions in a board room , supermarket, on a building site. Behaviour like they do in Parliament would lead to the sack or in the case of the latter a punch on
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Yeah, that is the problem, the pay and status of being a politician, gets us what we get, average at best and so many out for the next election, not the greater good!

Ours is a joke around the world the way they all baaaaaa etc at each other though...!


wittonite said:
It was a generic careful what you wish for as opposed to a response to your post.
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and mine was a specific, don't think anyone is wishing for that!
 
The Fear said:
One of the major problems - and i've said it before - with our politics is it is so adversarial. They sit opposite each other shouting, as opposed to sitting around and looking at what is best for the greater good. If one has a good idea, the other (not with all mp's but you get the point) the other side has to rip it apart, because they are the opposition.
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Thats such an obvious observation that I've never heard before. It's a small thing but you're probably right. If you forced them to be intermingled maybe they wouldn't be so comfortable calling each other names like two dopes at a football match.
 
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