The Politics Thread
- Thread starter The Fear
- Start date
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
So silly, they are going to defeat themselves having played it pretty well (no matter what side of the argument people are on.... or indeed, aren't on!)
Just a few months ago, Sturgeon (again, no matter what side of the argument) looked a very effective politician who stood some chance of bringing about change didn't she?!
See something on BBC text today saying that Covid has deprived Scottish Government of huge amounts of tax revenues had they gone independant, and Scots are thinking hard re independance from the UK.
kefkat
Vital Football Legend
I have friends and family in Scotland. They aren't as keen on Scexit as you would think. This won't be helping matters.
Neither Salmond or Sturgeon are particularly liked. It's another playoff of the nationalism there as Brexit has been here
There has even been a mini surge in leave in Wales which is even more bizarre as one in three are on benefits there.
The average Joe Bloggs just doesn't see the additional disasters which would befall them leaving the union.
N.I I get and will probably happen one day. It's a total different ball game with them
We supplement Scotland by £15 billion a year. They leave they have that to make up plus the army, foreign office, NHS and benefits to sort to name a few.
Whether or not they end up back in your E.U how are they going to work the borders. There is still all those hundreds of miles and a day travel between the South, the ports and the Scottish borders
Then there is the small independent leave vote in Wales. There annual budget is 18.4 billion of which Westminster give them 80% of that. Which means we subside them by about 14 to 15 billion.
The rest comes from the remaining 20% of devolved taxes such as Non-domestic rates, Land Transaction Tax, Landfill Disposal Tax and the Welsh rates of Income Tax
They would end up in a bigger mess than Brexit has left us
Neither Salmond or Sturgeon are particularly liked. It's another playoff of the nationalism there as Brexit has been here
There has even been a mini surge in leave in Wales which is even more bizarre as one in three are on benefits there.
The average Joe Bloggs just doesn't see the additional disasters which would befall them leaving the union.
N.I I get and will probably happen one day. It's a total different ball game with them
We supplement Scotland by £15 billion a year. They leave they have that to make up plus the army, foreign office, NHS and benefits to sort to name a few.
Whether or not they end up back in your E.U how are they going to work the borders. There is still all those hundreds of miles and a day travel between the South, the ports and the Scottish borders
Then there is the small independent leave vote in Wales. There annual budget is 18.4 billion of which Westminster give them 80% of that. Which means we subside them by about 14 to 15 billion.
The rest comes from the remaining 20% of devolved taxes such as Non-domestic rates, Land Transaction Tax, Landfill Disposal Tax and the Welsh rates of Income Tax
They would end up in a bigger mess than Brexit has left us
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Yes, it seems there's a growing ... stop telling us it'll be better, tell us where the money actually comes from ... movement on Independence and it's the correct question.
Even if Scotland could fund itself with acceptable tax hikes, it still wouldn't be funded to the extent it is by the Barnet formula (let alone the military handouts) so all those little SNP wins (childcare, prescriptions etc) that get Englanders (rightly) up in arms would be the first to go and it still wouldn't dent the difference from what I've seen.
The EU may well accept them and accept them quickly, but they aren't going to get the deal we had as the UK and they certainly won't get the subsidies either, so that won't bridge the gap.
They could even force strong SNP supporters like Sean Connery back to actually pay full tax and it wouldn't make a difference.
If it's what they want, have at it and I wish them well. But don't come back crying in 24 months when it's gone tits up and they suddenly realise that to stand still they have now eclipsed the UK's debt in the space of two minutes.
I'm glad more seem to be waking up to that.
Even if Scotland could fund itself with acceptable tax hikes, it still wouldn't be funded to the extent it is by the Barnet formula (let alone the military handouts) so all those little SNP wins (childcare, prescriptions etc) that get Englanders (rightly) up in arms would be the first to go and it still wouldn't dent the difference from what I've seen.
The EU may well accept them and accept them quickly, but they aren't going to get the deal we had as the UK and they certainly won't get the subsidies either, so that won't bridge the gap.
They could even force strong SNP supporters like Sean Connery back to actually pay full tax and it wouldn't make a difference.
If it's what they want, have at it and I wish them well. But don't come back crying in 24 months when it's gone tits up and they suddenly realise that to stand still they have now eclipsed the UK's debt in the space of two minutes.
I'm glad more seem to be waking up to that.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Yup, ignoring the minutia, Brexit and Independence are completely different beasts.
I think even leavers accept financially (irrespective of Covid) we are in a worst place for at least 10 years - remainers worry about the impact and the future, leavers trust after that wobble period other trade deals will see us catch up and then with more freedom, begin the lead the way.
Independence is none of those things. It's not simply not making as much profit so you bring debt down quicker - it's seeing debt easily quadruple overnight because we no longer subsidise Scotland and to make up the difference to stand still, taxes rise, plus debt balloons even further and they aren't standing still. And that's before looking at the fact they will never then get back on top of it given their own individual GDP so things will quite rapidly fall through the floor.
Wales is even worse on that front. I'm no expert but if I think Scotland would be back cap in hand in two years, I'd give Wales three months.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
And that was a party political broadcast on behalf of.....
kefkat
Vital Football Legend
Mike Field, V.V for the "better together" on behalf of ............... fill in the .......... with whoever takes your fancy (Alister Darling maybe
)
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Come on those eyebrows were hypnotic! lol
JuanPabloAngel
Alert Team
Never trust a man (or woman) whose eyebrows are a different colour to their hair.
Yes kk, and its absolutely amazing how many Scots, and to a lesser extent the Welsh are in total denial of the hard fiscal facts of life with regard to the Barnet Formula, and the extent that it allows Scotland to run up a debt that accounts for 25-28% of the entire UK deficit, and that with only a population of 5.5M.
In a way I would like to see Scotland get their independance, it might just get the chip of the shoulder of a lot of the Scottish Nats, and then maybe we would all get on better.
BodyButter
Vital Football Legend
The pro-independence argument is that Britain has a rentier economy. All of the money is made by crony companies getting government contracts and then paying people minimum wage to provide those services.
There is no investment in Britain because nobody at the top cares. Whatever investment there is is always entirely focused on the south east. Scotland gets a few goodies but they get nothing in terms of jobs or investments.
An independent Scotland could have a much more progressive economy like Israel, Denmark or Singapore.
At the moment, London massively subsidises the rest of the UK. With the flight of financial services from London to the EU, a post covid Britain is going to be forced to change, one way or another. The big fear is that the Eton twats are going to circle the wagons and keep their cozy gravy train going by slashing those subsidies and leaving regional cities to rot so that they can keep handing out juicy government service contracts.
As true as some of that may be Scotland just doesnt have the revenue streams to sustantiate the freebies that they like to give away to attract votes.
Also you make mention of the flight of the financial services from London, sorry but the fIigures dont bear that out, if anything EU financial services are looking to get into London, to free themselves up from reams of legislation in the EU.
Brexit: 1,000 EU finance firms 'set to open UK offices' - BBC ...
www.bbc.co.uk › news › business-56155531
BodyButter
Vital Football Legend
Yes, as things stand, an independent Scotland couldn't balance the books. I guess my point was that an independent Scotland would have the opportunity to replace the Eton rentier capitalism with something much more positive and sustainable.
JuanPabloAngel
Alert Team
The Scottish Farage? 
Alba Party: ‘All over’ for Alex Salmond, polling suggests.
Survey results ‘not what he needs’ to get campaign going, says polling guru.
https://apple.news/Aucr5Pu_8SyasbCQBr4Qz6A
Alba Party: ‘All over’ for Alex Salmond, polling suggests.
Survey results ‘not what he needs’ to get campaign going, says polling guru.
https://apple.news/Aucr5Pu_8SyasbCQBr4Qz6A
danvilla2
I’m not an expert
Scottish independence bumbling on with more of a split vote is only a good for the Tories.
I’m not up to speed with polling, but the Scots seem overall (albeit with a slim margin) quite pragmatic with regards to independence - I don’t think they truly believe a Scotland in the EU but outside of the U.K. would be better for them, as they’ve seen the disruption of Brexit, as much as they have handled Covid better than us.
It does always make me laugh when that Ian Blackford goes off on his usual independence rant which Boris hits back, but actually the bumbling independence argument with a split vote and split votes within the Leave campaign there, is great for him if it means Labour aren’t soaking up those seats.
I’m not up to speed with polling, but the Scots seem overall (albeit with a slim margin) quite pragmatic with regards to independence - I don’t think they truly believe a Scotland in the EU but outside of the U.K. would be better for them, as they’ve seen the disruption of Brexit, as much as they have handled Covid better than us.
It does always make me laugh when that Ian Blackford goes off on his usual independence rant which Boris hits back, but actually the bumbling independence argument with a split vote and split votes within the Leave campaign there, is great for him if it means Labour aren’t soaking up those seats.
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Thomas Holte
Vital Football Legend
Only a shameless, thick and utterly unprofessional politician could use an important coronavirus press conference yesterday (5th April) as a platform form to attack the Labour Mayor of London with yet more of his BS lies.
but then who's surprised?
It was also noticeable how the BBC and the right-wing gutter press like the Mail, Express, etc totally ignored it.
but then who's surprised?
It was also noticeable how the BBC and the right-wing gutter press like the Mail, Express, etc totally ignored it.
danvilla2
I’m not an expert
He made a point of calling out the Labour run council of Croydon on one briefing when asked about a problem with housing.
I don’t like it as a I like people with integrity. And before someone says “they all do it”, I don’t think most honourable people would be name dropping other parties for political purposes during a pandemic where 120k have died.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
JuanPabloAngel
Alert Team
