The Ollie Watkins Thread

[JW1985]

I’m not one for stats at the best of times. But stats comparing 2 players in a season when one has played half a season less is bloody pointless, unless I’m missing something.

To be fair most of them are per 90 minutes so Toney playing far less games should actually give him a huge advantage over someone who has played the most of any outfield player.

It really shows that Toney has not made much impact at all since returning despite the hype around him.

 

[BodyButter]

To be fair most of them are per 90 minutes so Toney playing far less games should actually give him a huge advantage over someone who has played the most of any outfield player.

It really shows that Toney has not made much impact at all since returning despite the hype around him.

I think he's not bothered. I suspect his summer transfer is already done so he's just watching the clock until he can leave.

 

[JW1985]

I think he's not bothered. I suspect his summer transfer is already done so he's just watching the clock until he can leave.

It's quite funny that he seems to beg someone to come and sign him in virtually every interview.

 

[CDX_EIRE]

I think he's not bothered. I suspect his summer transfer is already done so he's just watching the clock until he can leave.

I don't think so but maybe, it's definitely so strange that he is so blatant about it and nobody within the club has batted an eyelid. I just think whoever has bought him has purchased an above average striker, he isn't better than Ollie. Even when he outscored Ollie last year Ollie had like 10 or 12 games under Gerrard and didn't take penalties.

I myself have called him a poundshop Kane but looking at him more he isn't even that. He misplaces so many passes, every pass he makes he misplaces another. He definitely fits someone like West Ham better than Arsenal for example.

 

[Langoe66]

They actually get paid to write this shite! What’s this obsession with Toney? Totally bizarre. So he gets the nod based on ‘looking like an international player whilst waiting to take his penalty kick!’ Bloody hell, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify his inclusion at the expense of Ollie. Pathetic journalism.

Craig Hope: Daily Mail

Ollie Watkins: Loser

Harsh? Not if Southgate only takes two strikers to Germany. If so, Watkins probably won't be one of them.
Unlike Toney, he does not have the same strut about him at this level. He did very well in recycling the ball for Bellingham's goal on Tuesday night, but he's in the team to score them, and during a full 90 minutes versus Brazil he offered little threat.
An increase to a 26-man squad could yet be his saviour, but he's yet to convince as an England player.

Ivan Toney: Winner

OK, he only scored a penalty, said some. But in the moments before it was taken - three minutes of standing around, ball in hand, waiting for VAR to complete its check - there was something about Toney that looked like an international player.

There was an arrogance, a swagger, an ego that enjoyed the bright lights being on him, and him alone. He slotted his penalty home with no fuss, he always does. Don't forget how important a guaranteed scorer from 12 yards is at a tournament - Southgate certainly won't.

But it was not just that, Toney's hold-up play and want to impact gave purpose to England's attack. He is the best alternative to Kane.

 

[zaijianforth]

I used to be desperate for our players to be picked for their national team, especially England. Now I don't give a flying F. Nice for the individuals involved, but I'd prefer it if none of our lot were not within a million miles of Beakey and the Landan press.

 

[BodyButter]

I used to be desperate for our players to be picked for their national team, especially England. Now I don't give a flying F. Nice for the individuals involved, but I'd prefer it if none of our lot were not within a million miles of Beakey and the Landan press.

It would be better for us if they didn't play international football. Still, I'm sure they all want to play for England and it seems crazy to me that anyone would think Toney is better than Watkins at the moment.

 

[sirdennis]

They actually get paid to write this shite! What’s this obsession with Toney? Totally bizarre. So he gets the nod based on ‘looking like an international player whilst waiting to take his penalty kick!’ Bloody hell, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify his inclusion at the expense of Ollie. Pathetic journalism.

Craig Hope: Daily Mail

Ollie Watkins: Loser

Harsh? Not if Southgate only takes two strikers to Germany. If so, Watkins probably won't be one of them.
Unlike Toney, he does not have the same strut about him at this level. He did very well in recycling the ball for Bellingham's goal on Tuesday night, but he's in the team to score them, and during a full 90 minutes versus Brazil he offered little threat.
An increase to a 26-man squad could yet be his saviour, but he's yet to convince as an England player.

Ivan Toney: Winner

OK, he only scored a penalty, said some. But in the moments before it was taken - three minutes of standing around, ball in hand, waiting for VAR to complete its check - there was something about Toney that looked like an international player.

There was an arrogance, a swagger, an ego that enjoyed the bright lights being on him, and him alone. He slotted his penalty home with no fuss, he always does. Don't forget how important a guaranteed scorer from 12 yards is at a tournament - Southgate certainly won't.

But it was not just that, Toney's hold-up play and want to impact gave purpose to England's attack. He is the best alternative to Kane.

It wouldn't surprise me if Toney's agent had bunged him a good few quid to write that.

No scruples at all in either business.

 

[JW1985]

They actually get paid to write this shite! What’s this obsession with Toney? Totally bizarre. So he gets the nod based on ‘looking like an international player whilst waiting to take his penalty kick!’ Bloody hell, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify his inclusion at the expense of Ollie. Pathetic journalism.

Craig Hope: Daily Mail

Ollie Watkins: Loser

Harsh? Not if Southgate only takes two strikers to Germany. If so, Watkins probably won't be one of them.
Unlike Toney, he does not have the same strut about him at this level. He did very well in recycling the ball for Bellingham's goal on Tuesday night, but he's in the team to score them, and during a full 90 minutes versus Brazil he offered little threat.
An increase to a 26-man squad could yet be his saviour, but he's yet to convince as an England player.

Ivan Toney: Winner

OK, he only scored a penalty, said some. But in the moments before it was taken - three minutes of standing around, ball in hand, waiting for VAR to complete its check - there was something about Toney that looked like an international player.

There was an arrogance, a swagger, an ego that enjoyed the bright lights being on him, and him alone. He slotted his penalty home with no fuss, he always does. Don't forget how important a guaranteed scorer from 12 yards is at a tournament - Southgate certainly won't.

But it was not just that, Toney's hold-up play and want to impact gave purpose to England's attack. He is the best alternative to Kane.

When I see stuff like this it reminds me that the media has already made up their minds long ago on most footballing issues. Basically Toney is a big target man and invokes something primal inside English football fans and particular journalists. This bloke can't actually think of anything bar tapping in a penalty that Toney did, hence the statement that he just "looks like an international player". That he comes with a ready made story after his return from a ban, loves giving interviews and will be a big transfer story just adds to his appeal.

I think they see Ollie as a bit boring. Tries too hard, runs about too much, bit of a nice boy and plays for a club that many of the London media despise. Much like our form over the last 18 months his he's just seen as being on a purple patch rather than something that's come from hard work and a drastic improvement in coaching.

I'd love to think Ollie will be on the plane come June but I suspect Southgate will take Toney instead. A travesty because he deserves that recognition for the improvement he's shown.

 

[Stephen Jay Hawkings]

I saw the question was asked on the MOTD Facebook page yesterday, so out of curiosity I looked through the comments.

I would say 75% said Toney, and most of the rest said bring both.

Ollie is having the season of his life, yet the media are brainwashing people into thinking some fucking loser from Brentford is the better option.

 

[Fulford]

It would serve Beaky right if he took Toney rather than Ollie and Toney goes on to miss in a penalty shootout which causes us to get knocked out.

 

[JuanPabloAngel]

I saw the question was asked on the MOTD Facebook page yesterday, so out of curiosity I looked through the comments.

I would say 75% said Toney, and most of the rest said bring both.

Ollie is having the season of his life, yet the media are brainwashing people into thinking some fucking loser from Brentford is the better option.

Said in the other thread, I don't see it as either/or. If Southgate has got any idea what he's doing (he hasn't ) then he should take both.

Especially if either were left out at the expense of, say, Anthony Gordon or an out-of-sorts Jack Grealish.

But if Watkins were left out, it would just show up Southgate for the chancer he is. We got to the last Euro final and the WC semi in spite of him, not because of him.

 

[Langoe66]

Said in the other thread, I don't see it as either/or. If Southgate has got any idea what he's doing (he hasn't ) then he should take both.

Especially if either were left out at the expense of, say, Anthony Gordon or an out-of-sorts Jack Grealish.

But if Watkins were left out, it would just show up Southgate for the chancer he is. We got to the last Euro final and the WC semi in spite of him, not because of him.

Why take another forward when you could squeeze in another defender or defensive midfielder….!

 

[Melon Donkey]

Lol. Only in loser mentality English football would there be an argument over whether a player deserves a place just in case we get to a penalty shoot out. How about we concentrate on taking a player because he can win it in normal time for us . That should be the first consideration ffs. I bet historical multi tournament winning countries don’t think like that .

 

[sirdennis]

Lol. Only in loser mentality English football would there be an argument over whether a player deserves a place just in case we get to a penalty shoot out. How about we concentrate on taking a player because he can win it in normal time for us . That should be the first consideration ffs. I bet historical multi tournament winning countries don’t think like that .

Ivan Toney has bet that as well.

Allegedly.

 

[ironside]

Ivan Toney has bet that as well.

Allegedly.

Oh no he hasn’t.
Well, if we’re talking about pantomimes.

 

[tarzansbrother]

So Saturday will bring Ollie doing what he does best for Villa scoring and assisting and Toney what he does best for Brentford and scoring a penalty - would take both outcomes, especially if we get the victory and Man U don’t win

 

[CDX_EIRE]

They actually get paid to write this shite! What’s this obsession with Toney? Totally bizarre. So he gets the nod based on ‘looking like an international player whilst waiting to take his penalty kick!’ Bloody hell, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify his inclusion at the expense of Ollie. Pathetic journalism.

Craig Hope: Daily Mail

Ollie Watkins: Loser

Harsh? Not if Southgate only takes two strikers to Germany. If so, Watkins probably won't be one of them.
Unlike Toney, he does not have the same strut about him at this level. He did very well in recycling the ball for Bellingham's goal on Tuesday night, but he's in the team to score them, and during a full 90 minutes versus Brazil he offered little threat.
An increase to a 26-man squad could yet be his saviour, but he's yet to convince as an England player.

Ivan Toney: Winner

OK, he only scored a penalty, said some. But in the moments before it was taken - three minutes of standing around, ball in hand, waiting for VAR to complete its check - there was something about Toney that looked like an international player.

There was an arrogance, a swagger, an ego that enjoyed the bright lights being on him, and him alone. He slotted his penalty home with no fuss, he always does. Don't forget how important a guaranteed scorer from 12 yards is at a tournament - Southgate certainly won't.

But it was not just that, Toney's hold-up play and want to impact gave purpose to England's attack. He is the best alternative to Kane.

Amazingly this isn't the first time I've seen a "take" like this. Raj Chohan who works for the BBC posted on twitter the other night:
"I'd take Toney purely based on his mental profile, he strongly believes he belongs on any stage. Big moments won't phase him".

Some people want to be lied to, some want any evidence they can get which supports what they already believe. I think we're seeing that with Toney. Toney is a more natural footballer and 12 months ago I'd have said he was the better player. However at this point in time Ollie is by far the better player and goalscorer. Imagine if Southgate leaves behind the only player in Europe with double digits for goals and assists.

Ollie may end up getting robbed because of the virus that we have here sometimes. Toney has gotten way better by playing no football. In Ollie's most productive season ever he might get left at home because the manager and half the country believe the hype.

I was told this years ago by one of my managers, perception is all that matters. Facts don't matter, what people think matters.

 

[Villa Onion bag]

Pity Ollie doesn't strut around or even stand still looking like he belongs on the international stage.

Sadly, I think it all depends on what happens between now and the end if the season in terms of goalscoring. However, Gareth being Gareth, I think he's minded to take Toney, thinking he will not have to change formation should Kane get injured.

You wouldn't want to change formation to say try to change the way a game is going, would you?

Kane will no doubt play most of every game. Toney of course could be brought on in the 110th minute to take a pen. Ollie was taken off pens I remember after missing a couple.

Even if upped to 26 players, Gareth will be looking for left back cover for Shaw. Trippier, Chillwell. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[crimsondonkey]

Why any player would want to play for horse face Southgate I really don’t know.