Swearing on the Bible to be scrapped?

#1
Justice of the Peace could banish the Bible from UK courts

MAGISTRATES are considering whether to scrap Britain’s religious oath in which defendants and witnesses swear on the Bible to tell the truth.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/434864/Justice-of-the-Peace-could-banish-the-Bible-from-UK-courts

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Personally I think this is ridiculous. You have the choice and I spent time on a jury a few years back. If you feel the need to swear the fact you'll act truthfully and in light of the evidence based on a book, so be it.

Irrelevant yes, outdated yes, totally naff all to the overriding duty of a juror yes. But is it really an issue?

Of far more importance in the legal system is outdated, unelected judges who seem to make the law up as they go, and barristers and legal staff who regularly seem to forget that their first duty is towards aiding the judge, aiding the truth, not their clients and spuriously inventing stories in the hope of finding reasonable doubt.

Deal with that first for me please.

There is far more wrong with our legal system than whether witnesses and jurors swear on a Bible.

But hey it got his name into the press and I'm talking about the proposer.

So let's not let this become another religious debate, why not have a genuine debate on what the legal system needs to improve and gain faith back.

Afterall, in footballing terms we all know what happened to Joey Barton with his on pitch and off pitch exploits. The FA and the Law dealt with him - remember libel people.

But Sheffield Wednesday striker Gary Madine has just been sentenced for 18 months after committing two instances of off pitch assault in the eyes of the law.

Not alone, and in Madine's case they are talking about his career being over but that wasn't the case for Marlon King's convictions, and he enjoys a fruitful and quieter career now.

There's also Lee Hughes and his previous problems in the past.

Again folks, consider libel, but these are matters of truth and can be mentioned.

In comparison to Barton, has Madine been treated harshly? Is it ridiculous you even entertain that question given what they both did but the subsequent punishment handed out?

Is it right even footballers get a second chance, but in some cases, how many second chances does even a professional footballer deserve?

Many high profile managers and footballers get off with speeding offences thanks to the self styled, and very expensive lawyer I won't name, who taught his own daughter a lesson when she got coped.

Can league one players or normal folk afford that level of legal commitment?

So with everything addressing our legal system at the moment, especially the oft coalition talk of cutting legal aid (which has been falling year on year for at least five years to my knowledge) but you're meant to ignore that, really, swearing on the Bible is anything more than a distraction?

Discuss.

Please - otherwise I'll be lonely.
 

kefkat

Vital Football Legend
#2
If a person wants to swear on The Bible then so be it. If they want to swear on The Qumran they can or whatever book they want too. A Richard Dawkins book will do for those who share his way. However I really can not see the point of it cos a defendant is generally going to lie if they are guilty.

More important things in life in and out of courts than swearing on a book of any kind. Just get them in the dock and deal.

Yes Mike the whole legal system does need overhauling from sentence lengths, to minimum terms and the judges must have training and be in reality. Will it happen? I doubt it.

Just a few little words from moh so you don't feel lonely Mike :17:

Breaks into a rendition of Presley 'are you lonesome tonight........'
 

david-avfc

Vital 1st Team Regular
#3
There's a striker who plays for Belgium who is a convicted rapist so it's not just the uk. Marlon king just sounds like a disgusting person can't beleive any club would go near him, he's been arrested about 15 times or something.

I know tony pulis got away with speeding because he is/was "an important member of the community and the community will suffer if he cannot drive" absolutely disgusting that he got away with that. There should be no sympathy to those who speed well over the limit because it could easily kill many people
 
#4
No, certainly didn't mean just UK David - but Euro laws aren't even voted for by Europe, at least we can control our own house so to speak.

Justice should be seen and heard, it's a tenement of our legal system, yet we still don't have open court rooms - although the moves to TV coverage is a start in that respect. We still have too many hearings barred to public access, which goes against the very tenement our justice system was set up based on.

Justice is not achieved behind a closed door.

And justice shouldn't be served by those looking for loopholes than aren't in the spirit of, or the intention of the draughtsman who put together the piece of legislation either.

But does a public defender have the time to find those loopholes and argue them, no. Does a private defender...absolutely yes.

And it makes a mockery and creates a three tier system, not based just on whether you have money or not, but based on how much.

Cheers Kef - appreciate the fact you didn't want me to feel lonely PMSL

I agree, I don't care. I loved my time on the Jury and was fascinated by how different people reacted as the case went on, flipping between positions and so on, and counting one piece of evidence greater than they did another.

I can't obviously legally say much in detail.

But honestly, those who had the most problem in terms of what I thought was a clear decision, took the alternative oath like me. Those who swore on the Bible, swayed less.

I can't say in which direction.

If anything the only thing swearing the oath counted for is non of us wanted to do it, because we had to stand up in front of a full room and speak PMSL It would've been less embarrassing had we all had to say my name is...I have a once inch left nipple.

Once that was done, we could've announced ourselves as Jedi's, Wizards, it meant nothing, we got to the case and the evidence and the I wanted to hit a few of them, but that's another story I can't tell.

I'm sure they wanted to hit me aswell PMSL
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#6
I've often thought about this swearing on a bible. I don't believe in the bible (shock to you all that I know) so I could swear on it and lie without worrying, I'd be promising not to lie to something I don't believe in!

As for the legal system, it will never happen, but it does need a major overhaul, as you all know it is based on case law over here and so much of that is messy, outdated and there are far too many why's and wherefore's ...

But it is another old establishment thing, so nothing will change.
 

BBJ

Vital Champions League
#8
I seldom have to go to court but when I do, I affirm. I don't feel comfortable swearing by Almighty God".
 
G

Guest

Guest
#10
I dont think its a case of "want" Kat. Why would anyone "want" to swear on the bible? I think its a tradition that should stay, even for the hard nose atheist there is something behind raising your hand and swearing on the bible. = No, dont believe me?

Go talk to any priest who spends a huge amount of his time in local hospitals to see how many none religious have "turned" on their death beds.

The bible has a power upon all of us, even if you dont believe it = it should remain in the courts in my humble!
 

HeathfieldRoad1874

Vital Football Legend
#11
The Bible has no power on me at all. I know it's a story, made up over centuries by many different authors.

As Fear says, I could quite happily swear on it, and then proceed to lie through my teeth.

Old fashioned nonsense, that means nothing in a modern World, so if they get rid of it, I won't be worrying about it.
 

villawill

Vital 1st Team Regular
#12
Green Tea - 7/10/2013 11:34

I dont think its a case of "want" Kat. Why would anyone "want" to swear on the bible? I think its a tradition that should stay, even for the hard nose atheist there is something behind raising your hand and swearing on the bible. = No, dont believe me?

Go talk to any priest who spends a huge amount of his time in local hospitals to see how many none religious have "turned" on their death beds.

The bible has a power upon all of us, even if you dont believe it = it should remain in the courts in my humble!
It would mean absolutely zilch to me

It is a book of fiction to me, no more, no less
 

Pride of Lions

Vital Football Legend
#13
Swearing on the bible, swearing at the Koran, .....how much time are people allowed to think about it?....

Phone a friend could be the ideal substitution.....Lol
 

HeathfieldRoad1874

Vital Football Legend
#17
Is it just me that feels a bit uneasy about basing the whole system on a superstitious belief? In this day and age, to have such an important part of our Society built around a made up ethos is just ridiculous.

 

HeathfieldRoad1874

Vital Football Legend
#18
If you want to see discrimination....

Scouts announce alternative promise for atheists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24434510

This is the first time the scout movement has introduced a promise for new members who are atheists - although alternatives to the core promise have existed for nearly 50 years for Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists.



For 50 years there has been discrimination against Atheists, and yet I bet most didn't even know. It's about time we were included, and given the same status as everyone else.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#19
At last heathfield, do you think this signals the beginning of the end for our years of persecution?! :17:
 

HeathfieldRoad1874

Vital Football Legend
#20
The Fear - 8/10/2013 09:02

At last heathfield, do you think this signals the beginning of the end for our years of persecution?! :17:
It's a start, but there is a long way to go. If I have to listen to Grace being said at Dinner one more time I may just lose control. I am offended constantly by the assumption that I have to believe in the Bible.

Perhaps what we need to do is start killing indiscriminately to get our message heard, just like all the major Religions have done for Centuries?