SPANIARDS BID REJECTED

[TRUE BELIEVER]

The 2.5m a year was what admin estimated the the total running costs of the club would be per year in our current state and what the EFL would be basing proof of funds on.

Sorry mate, my understanding was that that was what they had mentioned for players wages, bringing it in line with the cap. However that would also have been only relating to the Football Club and as we know there is also the Stadium Company and Property Company ( Training Facilities) to be paid for.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Interesting piece from Cockney Latics.

https://www.cockneylatic.co.uk/no-shock-as-spanish-bid-falls-down-admin-are-a-shambles/

 

[loudmouthblue]

Optimism from Lisa Nandy .................

https://twitter.com/x/status/1346509584513564673

Does Lisa in that statement mention "serious concrns" with the bid, who is that from seeing is you keep telling me it is not the EFL, also in earlier posts wasn't it said that according to begbies the EFL would not consider looking at multiple bidders credentials, doesn't Lisa's talks with the EFL pour scorn on what stanley claimed in his interview with Jay Whittle.

Do you still insist on believing what these proven liars are saying despite what others are saying or is Lisa Nandy wrong as well as me.

 

[loudmouthblue]

Fine words from Ms Nandy, however the concerns she mentioned have not been made any more clear. Could she please enlighten us as to what the "concerns" were so that the people with more invested in the future of our club can understand why she is relieved and possibly bring and end to the mystery that is tearing the fans apart on here.

If there is a problem with NDA's or confidentiality clauses then please use parliamentary privilege to give us the answers.

Have you not been reading what I have been saying in this thread, those are the main concerns.
As for parliamentary privilage she has to stand up in Parliament to make any statement to qualify for that and despite us all as fans hoping that would happen it would be a misuse of that privilage on this occassion, it is said a warts and all interview will take place on the PWU podcast tomorrow were any gagging clauses are irrelevant use this to ask anything you want to know.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Sorry mate, my understanding was that that was what they had mentioned for players wages, bringing it in line with the cap. However that would also have been only relating to the Football Club and as we know there is also the Stadium Company and Property Company ( Training Facilities) to be paid for.

You are correct in saying the 2.5m is the cap but presumably we are already under that if admins previous statements are true about 2.5m being the clubs total cost.

 

[loudmouthblue]

It says " get your arse over to Benidorm, we're all skint here ".

Believe me mate I am chomping at the bit.

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

My god you are hard work, why after everything that has happened and the constant bullshit that has come from the administrators do you still choose to take their word for things.

I will explain the concerns of the EFL and why they have not yet sanctioned a takeover by the Spaniards (let us just all assume for arguments sake they have not turned down the bid or can do)

The general rate of corporate tax in Spain is 25%. Newly formed companies pay 15% for the first two years of business. A reduction of 10% tax may be granted to profits locked into a reserve for five years. Company tax returns must be filed within six months and 25 days after the end of the accounting period.

That is the only reason the Spaniards were prepared to invest in us, the new company formed would have been registered in Spain as well as the UK meaning they could benefit from taxation rules in both countries.

For a start corporate tax rate in the UK is 6% lower in the UK at 19%, The New company WAFC 2020 Ltd or what ever it would have been called would also qualify for a tax reduction of a further 10% on the Spanish rate for 2 years, for a company that has just made 40 million quid profit on player sales that is one hell of a significant tax saving, you do the maths.

Leganes also are believed to have a crop of youngsters coming through that many top sides are looking at in envy and worth a fortune, get where this is going yet, has the penny dropped that by buying us they stood to save millions in tax and like it or not it was the whole backdrop of their bid, I have no problem whatsoever with that as long as we saw some benefit and survived on the back of it.

The EFL were made aware of this and were worried about us being disposed of by administration or sale after the 2 year grace period and for that reason did not saction it, perhaps tey were waiting for the whole brexit and work permit implications to scupper the deal altogether, who knows, but that is what ultimately has scuppered any deal

I don't want to become embroiled in your debate with Moonay, LMB, but I don't see how that has any implications on the 40 million profits you say they have made. They would only get relief on the profits made in the UK and could not claim any relief on their Spanish profits. Even if the companies were registered in both countries they would still be treated as separate entities and need to submit separate accounts. Leganes would still be a separate company and would not benefit from the 10% relief for newly formed companies.

 

[moonay]

My god you are hard work, why after everything that has happened and the constant bullshit that has come from the administrators do you still choose to take their word for things.

I will explain the concerns of the EFL and why they have not yet sanctioned a takeover by the Spaniards (let us just all assume for arguments sake they have not turned down the bid or can do)

The general rate of corporate tax in Spain is 25%. Newly formed companies pay 15% for the first two years of business. A reduction of 10% tax may be granted to profits locked into a reserve for five years. Company tax returns must be filed within six months and 25 days after the end of the accounting period.

That is the only reason the Spaniards were prepared to invest in us, the new company formed would have been registered in Spain as well as the UK meaning they could benefit from taxation rules in both countries.

For a start corporate tax rate in the UK is 6% lower in the UK at 19%, The New company WAFC 2020 Ltd or what ever it would have been called would also qualify for a tax reduction of a further 10% on the Spanish rate for 2 years, for a company that has just made 40 million quid profit on player sales that is one hell of a significant tax saving, you do the maths.

Leganes also are believed to have a crop of youngsters coming through that many top sides are looking at in envy and worth a fortune, get where this is going yet, has the penny dropped that by buying us they stood to save millions in tax and like it or not it was the whole backdrop of their bid, I have no problem whatsoever with that as long as we saw some benefit and survived on the back of it.

The EFL were made aware of this and were worried about us being disposed of by administration or sale after the 2 year grace period and for that reason did not saction it, perhaps tey were waiting for the whole brexit and work permit implications to scupper the deal altogether, who knows, but that is what ultimately has scuppered any deal

If all the tax stuff was legal, then how exactly, legally, were the EFL going to be able to justify rejecting the bid?

If they're going to turn down buyers because they might sell the club in two years time, then they;ll clear no bugger !

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

Have you not been reading what I have been saying in this thread, those are the main concerns.
As for parliamentary privilage she has to stand up in Parliament to make any statement to qualify for that and despite us all as fans hoping that would happen it would be a misuse of that privilage on this occassion, it is said a warts and all interview will take place on the PWU podcast tomorrow were any gagging clauses are irrelevant use this to ask anything you want to know.

I have been reading your posts and like Moonay am sceptical about your comments.

As far as Parliamentary Privilege is concerned as the MP for Wigan she is allowed to make a statement in the house on behalf of her constituents. It has been done before and will no doubt happen again. There are precedents set by the MP's for Bolton and Bury over the debacles surrounding their problems. It certainly would not be seen as a misuse of privilege if it helps a majority of her constituents to understand her concerns about the Spanish bid.

 

[moonay]

Does Lisa in that statement mention "serious concrns" with the bid, who is that from seeing is you keep telling me it is not the EFL, also in earlier posts wasn't it said that according to begbies the EFL would not consider looking at multiple bidders credentials, doesn't Lisa's talks with the EFL pour scorn on what stanley claimed in his interview with Jay Whittle.

Do you still insist on believing what these proven liars are saying despite what others are saying or is Lisa Nandy wrong as well as me.

LMB, she doesn't say if the concerns were hers, the EFL's, those of the Admins, JJ's, the SC's, or even yours.

Re multiple bids, I've already said that the SC statement said they'd cleared that with the EFL. Not sure if Stanley meant the EFL wouldn't, or the Admins wouldn't. Either way, I don't know why you're arguing the point with me.

You seem insistent on proving the Admins to be out and out liars. That's up to you. I certainly haven't believed everything they've said, nut neither do I believe everything they say to be a lie.

 

[Hampton]

Thanks Lisa - and you are right the club hasn't been "plunged into turmoil" today.
That happened in July last year

Lots of folk with "knowledge" and "interest" coming out of the woodwork today - well shame on the lot of em.
Why no one who had any real understanding during the past 3 months of what was going on failed to go public and called out the admins frankly beggars belief.
Feck NDAs it's the existence of out club at stake

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

You are correct in saying the 2.5m is the cap but presumably we are already under that if admins previous statements are true about 2.5m being the clubs total cost.

As I said, I don't think it was the total cost of running the club, my understanding is that it was just the players wages.

I think the total outlay to run the club, stadium and Christopher Park will be nearer the £6 million mark.

 

[loudmouthblue]

I don't want to become embroiled in your debate with Moonay, LMB, but I don't see how that has any implications on the 40 million profits you say they have made. They would only get relief on the profits made in the UK and could not claim any relief on their Spanish profits. Even if the companies were registered in both countries they would still be treated as separate entities and need to submit separate accounts. Leganes would still be a separate company and would not benefit from the 10% relief for newly formed companies.

I will give you an example of something I have a great knowledge of because my wife worked for this company for her whole career, the last 10 in a senior European management role in finance.

HJ Heinz are or certainly were the biggest private employers in Wigan, a number of years ago they reorganised the company, many senior jobs in Wigan and the head office in Middlesex were lost as Heinz moved their UK and European headquarters to Ziest in Holland, purely because of the tax savings,.

They still are a major manufacturer in this country on a number of sites Including Kitt Green yet they pay any taxes based on the agreement they forged with the Dutch government.

Many UK based companies have done similar relocating to Dublin or a number of European destinations for the same reasons aren't ebay and pay pal registered in Luxembourg and among many other multinationals pay very little tax in the UK.

Now I am not sure the exact details of how it works but the savings Marino could have made could have made on future sales were substantial, perhaps he would have transfered some players to us on frees or small fees then sold them on for huge sums, it is possible and legal.

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

I will give you an example of something I have a great knowledge of because my wife worked for this company for her whole career, the last 10 in a senior European management role in finance.

HJ Heinz are or certainly were the biggest private employers in Wigan, a number of years ago they reorganised the company, many senior jobs in Wigan and the head office in Middlesex were lost as Heinz moved their UK and European headquarters to Ziest in Holland, purely because of the tax savings,.

They still are a major manufacturer in this country on a number of sites Including Kitt Green yet they pay any taxes based on the agreement they forged with the Dutch government.

Many UK based companies have done similar relocating to Dublin or a number of European destinations for the same reasons aren't ebay and pay pal registered in Luxembourg and among many other multinationals pay very little tax in the UK.

Now I am not sure the exact details of how it works but the savings Marino could have made could have made on future sales were substantial, perhaps he would have transfered some players to us on frees or small fees then sold them on for huge sums, it is possible and legal.

I understand all that LMB and like you am fully in the know about international trade, but I fail to understand how Moreno would be able to shift the profits from his Leganes, established, business into a newly established completely separately registered company to make use of the tax relief granted by the Spanish government on new enterprises.

Edit:
The example you are giving is of a major multinational company moving its tax liabilities from one country to another by moving its registered office.

What that has to do with a new company set up in the UK and also registering it in Spain and then allocating the profits from an established business into it is beyond me.

 

[Bickymon1]

Well folks looks like i have to hold my hands up and admit i was wrong
Apologies go to MIW he was bang on
Apologies also go to anyone else i doubted

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

Well folks looks like i have to hold my hands up and admit i was wrong
Apologies go to MIW he was bang on
Apologies also go to anyone else i doubted

I wouldn't be too forthcoming with the apologies mate, it was your opinion and you are entitled to it just as other people are to theirs. It's just that on this occasion yours was the wrong opinion, as mine was to be fair.

 

[moonay]

Well folks looks like i have to hold my hands up and admit i was wrong
Apologies go to MIW he was bang on
Apologies also go to anyone else i doubted

As TB says, we all have views on stuff that sometimes turn out to be wrong. Who knows, Moreno may well have proven to be a decent owner, bolstering our academy (like at Leganes) and had us back in the Prem inside a few seasons.

However, Moreno thought himself to be a bit of a player, thought he could cut a few quid off the price, and instead, pissed on his french pies.

Bugger !

Welcome back mate.

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

Just had a quick peek at Martin Halsall on't web. Seems to be an entrepreneur and has a couple of successful businesses but also a few failed enterprises behind him. Runs a superbike team to which he has committed a good few bob, however there is nothing online that says he has the money to go it alone with us. It looks to me like he is a local boy made good and is heading some sort of consortium. He has apparently offered the SC a stake of about 14% in the club and a seat on the board.

Martin Halsall Makes Wigan Athletic Bid - Last Word on Football (lastwordonsports.com)

 

[loudmouthblue]

Never thought the Spanish. We’re the best thing ever. But they were the only ones to put the cash up. Now we will see if any of the others who said we’re interested put there money. In Sad sad day to be a wigan fan.

And you are basing that on what evidence, across the board in media, from the local MP, supporters club and the EFL themselves the only people claiming there was only one bid were the administators and if the debate taking place today based on information coming from all sources says nothing else it says Begbie Traynor are not fit for purpose and moreso anything they say or claim must be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[Wlatic]

If, and it's a massive if, the EFL have rejected the bid (as you say they have ....... Begbie's haven't said that ........ they've said the Spaniards reduced their offer)) for "financial concerns", then in order to ensure they won't be sued, it had better be for a reason that contravenes their rules/regulations.

Go on LMB ....... have one last pop ........ tell us where in those rules/regulations does it say that the EFL can do that.

He isn't saying the EFL rejected the bid, he is saying there were items outstanding they wanted clarification of and as a result the bid was reduced.

In regards the to EFL rejecting because they are worried about how the club will be run it's very possible. If you check the rules and criteria for protecting the EFL itself there is way more than enough to stop someone taking over a club for any reason they can dream up. Rather than lmb providing the text to say they could reject it, it'd be far better for you to provide the text to say they cannot reject it, I just don't see that within any of the EFL regulations