SPANIARDS BID REJECTED | Page 12 | Vital Football

SPANIARDS BID REJECTED

I also find it amazing that you've knocked Jay Whittle who's had the vast majority of people involved with the process on. I doubt you'd have the same success. Theres about 30+ hours of content. Nobody has produced anything close to it. Credit needs to go where it is due.

I am not sure but I do not think I have knocked Jay Whittle as I do respect him getting off his arse and doing what he has done, I may have had cause to dispute single issues over his wide number of interviews but did a search of my own posts and could not see anything, I honestly don't think I have " knocked him" but if I did in any way I apologise as did not mean to.n
 
Because they were the first to do so, and for that reason I gave them the benefit of any doubt as they were first to conform to the adminitrators original terms and conditions.

However that bid came from Garrido and when he was sine died by the EFL I think the bidding process should have been reopened to include other parties.

That maybe but you jumped on Walgarthjohn for saying they were the only ones to put their money in saying he was wrong, I merely pointed out that they were the only ones to place a deposit, to which Moonay rightly pointed out that that was because the Admins would not accept any other deposits. But the point still stands that to date they are the only bidders to have come up with any money.
 
They'll have to pay UK tax now we've left the EU though 😏

Only on profits made in the UK, and that is where they are very subtle.

They can produce in the UK, sell to an EU subsidiary at cost or just above and sell on in the EU to make the profit, thus paying tax in the EU and avoiding it here.

They can even show a year on year loss in the UK and pay no tax at all with a little bit of creative accounting. All totally legal at present, although there are moves afoot to prevent this sort of thing continuing.
 
Only on profits made in the UK, and that is where they are very subtle.

They can produce in the UK, sell to an EU subsidiary at cost or just above and sell on in the EU to make the profit, thus paying tax in the EU and avoiding it here.

They can even show a year on year loss in the UK and pay no tax at all with a little bit of creative accounting. All totally legal at present, although there are moves afoot to prevent this sort of thing continuing.

Tax differentials have always existed between member States of the EU, including corporation tax and VAT. There is no common fiscal policy as such.
 
That maybe but you jumped on Walgarthjohn for saying they were the only ones to put their money in saying he was wrong, I merely pointed out that they were the only ones to place a deposit, to which Moonay rightly pointed out that that was because the Admins would not accept any other deposits. But the point still stands that to date they are the only bidders to have come up with any money.

I thought and still do wallgarth was supporti g the anministators line that there were no other bidders, which I know for a fact is not true, two other bids were with the administators at the same time as the garrido one and ignored, i also know one of those bids had asked for payment details for their deposit yet still ignored. But that is irrelevant now.


See my latest thread re future owners
 
So that 4% reduction in corporation tax to 15% which is 10% lower than in spain could indicate that the Morino bid being because of tax savings could have some legs after all as I said, on the reported profit Leganes made recently of £/€ 40 million (not sure which) paying corporation in the UK at 15% as opposed to the 25% in Spain would have given them a net saving of some 4 million, not even what the agreed purchase price was.
Another that must be cursing brexit.

You are getting mixed up on this LMB. The reduced tax would only be applicable on profits made in the UK, not Spain as you are suggesting. Leganes are a Spanish company trading in Spain and no amount of creative accountancy will enable them to transfer the profits from Leganes onto WAFC. The companies are separate entities.

Under your original hypothesis you argued that they would set up a sister company in Spain to take advantage of a tax break for new start ups offered by the Spanish government however upon investigation that applies to start ups within the borders of Spain and so would have no advantage over them buying a business in the UK.

The only tax advantage to be gained from buying WAFC would be by offsetting its losses against future profit. Something most people on here think will not happen. You need to remember that corporation tax is only payable on profits.
 
Tax differentials have always existed between member States of the EU, including corporation tax and VAT. There is no common fiscal policy as such.

I don't see your point Notts. The discussion is about Moreno being able to take advantage of Tax Breaks and Corporation Tax by buying WAFC. Both of which I dispute as per my posts.

I don't deny there is no common fiscal policy or that rates vary, just that you can't transfer the profit from one company to another to take advantage of tax breaks as LMB is suggesting, nor can you buy a business in the UK and take advantage of a scheme to assist new start ups in Spain.
 
I don't see your point Notts. The discussion is about Moreno being able to take advantage of Tax Breaks and Corporation Tax by buying WAFC. Both of which I dispute as per my posts.

I don't deny there is no common fiscal policy or that rates vary, just that you can't transfer the profit from one company to another to take advantage of tax breaks as LMB is suggesting, nor can you buy a business in the UK and take advantage of a scheme to assist new start ups in Spain.

Just playing devils advocate, would this scenario have been feasible (albeit somewhat irrelevant now)
Moreno sells promising young Leganes Spanish player to Wigan on the cheap and pays "not much" corporation tax in Spain. Moreno then sells same promising young player to footballing giant for mega money and pays "less" UK corporation tax than he would have paid in Spain. Moreno draws dividends from UK company.
 
Just playing devils advocate, would this scenario have been feasible (albeit somewhat irrelevant now)
Moreno sells promising young Leganes Spanish player to Wigan on the cheap and pays "not much" corporation tax in Spain. Moreno then sells same promising young player to footballing giant for mega money and pays "less" UK corporation tax than he would have paid in Spain. Moreno draws dividends from UK company.

Yep, it could have worked Arthur and I suspect that could have been what he had in mind but due to the regulations imposed now for "foreign" players entering the UK it possibly won't work now.

Perhaps a reason for him pulling out though.
 
You are getting mixed up on this LMB. The reduced tax would only be applicable on profits made in the UK, not Spain as you are suggesting. Leganes are a Spanish company trading in Spain and no amount of creative accountancy will enable them to transfer the profits from Leganes onto WAFC. The companies are separate entities.

Under your original hypothesis you argued that they would set up a sister company in Spain to take advantage of a tax break for new start ups offered by the Spanish government however upon investigation that applies to start ups within the borders of Spain and so would have no advantage over them buying a business in the UK.

The only tax advantage to be gained from buying WAFC would be by offsetting its losses against future profit. Something most people on here think will not happen. You need to remember that corporation tax is only payable on profits.


I am not sure how it works in our case but I asked the person that told me what you are asking now, the explained that WAFC would registered in Spain along with Marino's other busness interests technically making us a Spanish company, I don't know if this is possible or not, and it was planned to transfer up and coming Spanish talent that they were looking to capitalise on to us then sell them via us or in Spain as Leganes players wherever the best corporate tax rates where, how it worked in essence is something I do not know or was fully explained to me.

What I do know was this information was passed onto to a senior figure working on and looking for what was best for WAFC, that person took that to the EFL and asked them to looking it, I do not know what has happened since but the deal has broken down because of the brexit law change on movement of workers, making Moreno's plans more difficult if not impossible.

I was also told something late last night that this plan how to run us /finance the take over was not part of Garridos bid and only came to light when the Spaniards submitted new proposals after Garrido was rejected by the EFL, not sure if this is totally accurate or not but it certainly accounts for any delays since Garrido.
 
You are posting exactly what I asked the person who told me, I still do not know the full ins and out but the gist of what I was told is, a parent company would be set up in Spain that encompassed Marino's other business interests and WAFC and technically we would b



I am not sure how it works in our case but I asked the person that told me what you are asking now, the explained that WAFC would registered in Spain along with Marino's other busness interests technically making us a Spanish company, I don't know if this is possible or not, and it was planned to transfer up and coming Spanish talent that they were looking to capitalise on to us then sell them via us or in Spain as Leganes players wherever the best corporate tax rates where, how it worked in essence is something I do not know or was fully explained to me.

What I do know was this information was passed onto to a senior figure working on and looking for what was best for WAFC, that person took that to the EFL and asked them to looking it, I do not know what has happened since but the deal has broken down because of the brexit law change on movement of workers, making Moreno's plans more difficult if not impossible.

I was also told something late last night that this plan how to run us /finance the take over was not part of Garridos bid and only came to light when the Spaniards submitted new proposals after Garrido was rejected by the EFL, not sure if this is totally accurate or not but it certainly accounts for any delays since Garrido.

Now I see what you are getting at. Arthur has just posed a similar scenario.

That possibly could have worked and is essentially the same as becoming a feeder for one of the larger clubs. I am not sure what the legal implications would be on that but will have a root around and see if it feasible.
 
Most fans are totally in the dark. Time now to stop all this. Crap and the Admin. To come clean and tell every one the truth. What as been going on. They are the only ones who know who as bid. And who as not. Ready all these posts. It’s getting true fans. Down. Looking from the outside now. It really does look like. BURY. REPEATING ITS SELF.
John, what's happened is largely irrelevant. What's going to happen is the only thing that matters.

Hopefully, because of circumstances, things will move at a swift pace this time around. All of the lease agreements (for the DW & Chris Park) have already been produced, and (to a large extent I'd imagine) just need to have the names replaced.

The EFL have already stated that this isn't another Bury. There does seem to be a number of interested parties.

The interview with JJ, the SC and Lisa Nandy should be really interesting.

It'll be 'reet. Chin up mate.
(y)
 
John, what's happened is largely irrelevant. What's going to happen is the only thing that matters.

Hopefully, because of circumstances, things will move at a swift pace this time around. All of the lease agreements (for the DW & Chris Park) have already been produced, and (to a large extent I'd imagine) just need to have the names replaced.

The EFL have already stated that this isn't another Bury. There does seem to be a number of interested parties.

The interview with JJ, the SC and Lisa Nandy should be really interesting.




It'll be 'reet. Chin up mate. :lol:


You're a glutton for punishment Moonay :cheers:
 
You're a glutton for punishment Moonay :cheers:

Maybe Zakky, but I see no reason to make ourselves ill by getting too disheartened, or depressed ......... especially in these shitty lockdown times.

I believed that the Spanish bid was in the cusp of going through ...... until they made a very badly judged last minute negotiating tactic.

Whether or not the EFL would have given them a final tick in the box (in light of the other stuff we're finding out about) is going to remain unknown, ........... but we can't just mope about it.

It seems that we still have people interested in buying us, and for me, that's got to be reason for optimism.
(y)
 
You are getting mixed up on this LMB. The reduced tax would only be applicable on profits made in the UK, not Spain as you are suggesting. Leganes are a Spanish company trading in Spain and no amount of creative accountancy will enable them to transfer the profits from Leganes onto WAFC. The companies are separate entities.

Under your original hypothesis you argued that they would set up a sister company in Spain to take advantage of a tax break for new start ups offered by the Spanish government however upon investigation that applies to start ups within the borders of Spain and so would have no advantage over them buying a business in the UK.

The only tax advantage to be gained from buying WAFC would be by offsetting its losses against future profit. Something most people on here think will not happen. You need to remember that corporation tax is only payable on profits.

This is not fully true and would depend on the structure of the companies.

You are right in that you should pay tax based on the profit made within a country that you trade within, however it doesn't always work like that (Google, Starbucks etc.).

"transferring profits" is something that cant happen (its also a very very vague term), but a UK company charging a Spanish company for services rendered and the Spanish company therefore making very little profit, with the UK company making a lot would be very easy to do and is done by many companies.

There would also have been nothing to stop the source of profits (players) from being transferred to Wigan and then sold.

I do, however, doubt that the amount of messing around that would need to be done and the actual profit made from this kind of arrangement would have been worth it for the Spanish bidder.
 
This is not fully true and would depend on the structure of the companies.

You are right in that you should pay tax based on the profit made within a country that you trade within, however it doesn't always work like that (Google, Starbucks etc.).

"transferring profits" is something that cant happen (its also a very very vague term), but a UK company charging a Spanish company for services rendered and the Spanish company therefore making very little profit, with the UK company making a lot would be very easy to do and is done by many companies.

There would also have been nothing to stop the source of profits (players) from being transferred to Wigan and then sold.

I do, however, doubt that the amount of messing around that would need to be done and the actual profit made from this kind of arrangement would have been worth it for the Spanish bidder.


WLatic, Leganes are said to have made 40 million £ or € recently on player sales from their academy so if you take the corporation tax rate of 15% that applies to the first two years of any business start up in Spain, or the proposed reduction from 19% to 15% (which has been postponed because of the covid cost) in the UK substantial savings would have been made.

Spain @ full corporation tax rate 25% of 40m = 10 million
Spain start up/
UK proposed corporation tax rate 15% of 40m = 6 million

that alone shows a saving of 4 million £ or €

I would say it would not take a lot of clerks and accountants to do that "messing around", in actual fact the staff are probably in the employ of Mareno anyway so it would cost very little or nothing to implement and those savings alone would more or less cover the purchase of WAFC.

There is talk that Leganes have a fresh crop coming through that are worth even more that big clubs are eyeing at the moment.

This is a little simplistic and I don't think for one minute it is the full picture or only reason for their interest but is certainly worth the efforts,
 
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WLatic, Leganes are said to have made 40 million £ or € recently on player sales from their academy so if you take the corporation tax rate of 15% that applies to the first two years of any business start up in Spain, or the proposed reduction from 19% to 15% (which has been postponed because of the covid cost) in the UK substantial savings would have been made.

Spain @ full corporation tax rate 25% of 40m = 10 million
Spain start up/
UK proposed corporation tax rate 15% of 40m = 6 million

that alone shows a saving of 4 million £ or €

I would say it would not take a lot of clerks and accountants to do that "messing around", in actual fact the staff are probably in the employ of Mareno anyway so it would cost very little or nothing to implement and those savings alone would more or less cover the purchase of WAFC.

There is talk that Leganes have a fresh crop coming through that are worth even more that big clubs are eyeing at the moment.

This is a little simplistic and I don't think for one minute it is the full picture or only reason for their interest but is certainly worth the efforts,

I don't disagree that there would be money in them doing it, and supported you in regards to it being something that can be done.

Starbucks have all sorts of "licensing/trademark" deals, purchasing of beans etc. which make sure the money flows out of the UK and to where ever has less tax. A lot of companies are extremely creative with operating on loans, with the interest being paid to parent companies offshore and the interest being untaxable.

Its just I doubt if it'd make sense to do it on such a small scale, based on the time to set it all up correctly/cost of keeping that kinda thing going (and without mistakes) and might not be worth the effort for them right now (hence the lower bid).