Race Issues/Riots/Protests/BLM

[colavfc]

Yeah agree with that the extreme liberals are making things worse. They are creating more resentment and racism.
I do however disagree with your white straight male comment. From where i am standing, if you are white straight male now you have no freedom of speech. You have to be ultra ultra careful in what you say and who you say it to. Just disagreeing with someone BAME you will be labelled as racist straight away.... instantly. A small slip of the tongue (FA president) with no malice... boom.. your job is gone...
You only have to look at what the BBC are doing with people on tv. If your straight and white... time to move on and get replaced with someone who fits something other than white and straight.
People like Lenny Henry not helping stating ge doesnt want help from white saviours. Wtf. Who ever mentioned that before? We were ringing up giving money to a good charity to help out and now getting lambasted for helping. Well good luck with the next comic relief.
Think theres a difference between getting rid of the racist pigs out there (which i am all for) and then classing all white people as supreme has beens and deserve nothing. At the minute from where i am standing the balance is not there at all.
Yeah and i agree with your point.... sometimes theres a different best person for the job.... who brings something new and fresh. I totally get that. But like i said... the person that brings that something new and fresh could be any colour, race, religion or from any universe. Thats fair?

 

[CDX_EIRE]

I do however disagree with your white straight male comment. From where i am standing, if you are white straight male now you have no freedom of speech. You have to be ultra ultra careful in what you say and who you say it to. Just disagreeing with someone BAME you will be labelled as racist straight away.... instantly. A small slip of the tongue (FA president) with no malice... boom.. your job is gone...
At the minute from where i am standing the balance is not there at all.
Yeah and i agree with your point.... sometimes theres a different best person for the job.... who brings something new and fresh. I totally get that. But like i said... the person that brings that something new and fresh could be any colour, race, religion or from any universe. Thats fair?

You know that's fair because there is this speech correction that happens so you're right.

What ever it is the world is not right and its not fair.

I am drained talking about this stuff when is the bloody football back

Edit: and Col I deleted a post I made about the military. We're beating a dead horse you and me.

 

[wittonite]

No one is saying that though Col, I think it's just a perspective shift, and honestly a perspective shift at the top might be exactly what a company needs. It seems like you're too wrapped up in the 'tick the box' idea to see the perspective others are offering too.

Experience, quality, trust, background, education, creativity, ideas etc. people have varying degrees of ability in these areas. If you limit yourself to education and 'qualifications' you'd miss some of the best CEOs in recent e.g. Steve Jobs. Bill Gates boils everything down to the pure chance that his high school was one of the only high schools in the entire world with a computer.

You can build those men up or chop them down any way you want but there are things lend credence to the idea that diversity is as important as anything else. A different background, life experience and so could be a major driver in why someone gets the job. The 'black experience' is important, Nike would be nothing without Michael Jordan's endorsement and he doesn't seem it on face value but he like Shaq have a perspective and understanding that would suit a lot of organizations.

How do we even know Greg Clark was good at his job and why wouldn't the perspective of a former professional be better? Les already has more experience in a director role within a club than him. He has vastly more experience in professional football than Clark. Another candidate in the running who would be good is Linekar but I think he'd only be suited to the role if it was more ceremonial.

It's not all degrees and qualifications and technical ability. I work as a QS, the people who go furthest are not the best at the execution side of their job. It's usually the opposite, its people who can't execute but can win work. In senior management positions, you have the widest scope to include people who aren't actually the best in a traditional sense or measure.

Yes absolutely the best person for the job should get whatever the job is but the scope of who would be best can vary IMO.

Not sure why you quote Michael Jordans endosement of Nike, because he doesnt manage the company, does he?
I get the famous sports person tie up with companies but its their name that sells not their ability to run a company.
Does he have companies that he manages,genuine question.?

 

[CDX_EIRE]

Not sure why you quote Michael Jordans endosement of Nike, because he doesnt manage the company, does he?
I get the famous sports person tie up with companies but its their name that sells not their ability to run a company.
Does he have companies that he manages,genuine question.?

No he doesnt but he does have influence with the company. He owns a bunch of small things but probably the closest he comes is Draftkings where he is an advisor and investor.

It probably wasn't relevant, a stream of consciousness perhaps.

I think the point I was trying to make was Nike were a small company and not popular in the 80s. They rose to prominence in the 90s and while Jordan transcends any racial lines, he helped them capture a market that is well known to be difficult to capture, the black community. Obviously, management gets insane credit for chasing Jordan and doing whatever it took. I do think that diversity can help, even if it is just an athlete endorsement. You look at the NBA now and what they were able to force owners to do during election and protests.

My belief about all this stuff actually comes from a capitalist standpoint and not entirely a liberal or humanitarian view. Maybe I dress it up to virtue signal?

Here is the capitalist view (this is all from a USA centric lense btw). The 3 most successful types of investments you will make are (1) trends set by young kids (2) trends set by women and (3) trends in the black community. Wall Street is dominated by white older men who don't understand those 3 markets. I look for companies to invest in who significantly benefit from those trends. I was too young at the time but when Michelle Obama wore J. Crew that became one of the hottest trends for about 12 months, it took Wall St. longer to figure it out. So if you had figured out this trend during that 12 month period and heavily invested, by the time Wall St. started buying you could start exiting with massive profits.

That is partly the case I use for some of these public companies. Having people who actually understand these groups, you can target them and increase your revenue and profits. The most successful investor in the last 10 years is a woman (cathie wood) and not for the reasons above but she has a methodology the rest of Wall st. doesnt follow. Again she has a completely different perspective however as anyone could easily point out. The woman is qualified, incredibly qualified, she's been in the industry for decades but she has a 2% shift in her mindset which has allowed her to make incredible returns.

 

[colavfc]

No he doesnt but he does have influence with the company. He owns a bunch of small things but probably the closest he comes is Draftkings where he is an advisor and investor.

It probably wasn't relevant, a stream of consciousness perhaps.

I think the point I was trying to make was Nike were a small company and not popular in the 80s. They rose to prominence in the 90s and while Jordan transcends any racial lines, he helped them capture a market that is well known to be difficult to capture, the black community. Obviously, management gets insane credit for chasing Jordan and doing whatever it took. I do think that diversity can help, even if it is just an athlete endorsement. You look at the NBA now and what they were able to force owners to do during election and protests.

My belief about all this stuff actually comes from a capitalist standpoint and not entirely a liberal or humanitarian view. Maybe I dress it up to virtue signal?

Here is the capitalist view (this is all from a USA centric lense btw). The 3 most successful types of investments you will make are (1) trends set by young kids (2) trends set by women and (3) trends in the black community. Wall Street is dominated by white older men who don't understand those 3 markets. I look for companies to invest in who significantly benefit from those trends. I was too young at the time but when Michelle Obama wore J. Crew that became one of the hottest trends for about 12 months, it took Wall St. longer to figure it out. So if you had figured out this trend during that 12 month period and heavily invested, by the time Wall St. started buying you could start exiting with massive profits.

That is partly the case I use for some of these public companies. Having people who actually understand these groups, you can target them and increase your revenue and profits. The most successful investor in the last 10 years is a woman (cathie wood) and not for the reasons above but she has a methodology the rest of Wall st. doesnt follow. Again she has a completely different perspective however as anyone could easily point out. The woman is qualified, incredibly qualified, she's been in the industry for decades but she has a 2% shift in her mindset which has allowed her to make incredible returns.

 

[wittonite]

No he doesnt but he does have influence with the company. He owns a bunch of small things but probably the closest he comes is Draftkings where he is an advisor and investor.

It probably wasn't relevant, a stream of consciousness perhaps.

I think the point I was trying to make was Nike were a small company and not popular in the 80s. They rose to prominence in the 90s and while Jordan transcends any racial lines, he helped them capture a market that is well known to be difficult to capture, the black community. Obviously, management gets insane credit for chasing Jordan and doing whatever it took. I do think that diversity can help, even if it is just an athlete endorsement. You look at the NBA now and what they were able to force owners to do during election and protests.

My belief about all this stuff actually comes from a capitalist standpoint and not entirely a liberal or humanitarian view. Maybe I dress it up to virtue signal?

Here is the capitalist view (this is all from a USA centric lense btw). The 3 most successful types of investments you will make are (1) trends set by young kids (2) trends set by women and (3) trends in the black community. Wall Street is dominated by white older men who don't understand those 3 markets. I look for companies to invest in who significantly benefit from those trends. I was too young at the time but when Michelle Obama wore J. Crew that became one of the hottest trends for about 12 months, it took Wall St. longer to figure it out. So if you had figured out this trend during that 12 month period and heavily invested, by the time Wall St. started buying you could start exiting with massive profits.

That is partly the case I use for some of these public companies. Having people who actually understand these groups, you can target them and increase your revenue and profits. The most successful investor in the last 10 years is a woman (cathie wood) and not for the reasons above but she has a methodology the rest of Wall st. doesnt follow. Again she has a completely different perspective however as anyone could easily point out. The woman is qualified, incredibly qualified, she's been in the industry for decades but she has a 2% shift in her mindset which has allowed her to make incredible returns.

Thanks for taking the time out to reply.
What seems to come across strongly is that marketing in the US is an art form that by comparison we seem to play at it over here.
I am always impressed whenever I hear an interview with an American kid on tv, sort of college age or even younger.
They are so articulate and dont just stand there tongue tied or give a barely audible utterance.

 

[CDX_EIRE]

Thanks for taking the time out to reply.
What seems to come across strongly is that marketing in the US is an art form that by comparison we seem to play at it over here.
I am always impressed whenever I hear an interview with an American kid on tv, sort of college age or even younger.
They are so articulate and dont just stand there tongue tied or give a barely audible utterance.

I need to ask the woman about it, kids from a young age over here do that show and tell a thing and I think they do it every week years in school. Its amazing to me how confident and outgoing she is whereas I am a homebody. Took me many many years to get to the level of confidence I have in front of people and even now when there are near people I can hear the nerves in my voice.

She can just stand up and talk about anything, isn't after to speak about anything but I'll ask her about things and she'll say she is nervous. Could have fooled me, and convincingly so. I can only imagine myself as a child having to get up in front of the class and tell everyone about some object or thing for 5 minutes. Would have been a disaster, couldn't even do decent presentations in college.

When I first came here and I met an Irish fella who helped me get an interview and subsequently the job. He said don't be afraid to be confident, don't play down anything and dont disparage yourself because the Americans won't do any of that. I ended doing something I'd never do in an Irish or English interview, I had made up a bunch of job seeker business cards. My boss had never seen anything like it and he told me later as soon as I did that he wanted to hire me. Said he never seen an Irish or English person with that confidence. I was absolutely faking it, its a wonder the woman liked me I was a nervous wreck on our first date

 

[mike_field]

For how much of the US education system we are sensible to stay away from, there are elements we could certainly learn from. The regular class public speaking, the devil's advocate stuff (without prompting sometimes rather than research/project based) is definitely one of them.

 

[wittonite]

I need to ask the woman about it, kids from a young age over here do that show and tell a thing and I think they do it every week years in school. Its amazing to me how confident and outgoing she is whereas I am a homebody. Took me many many years to get to the level of confidence I have in front of people and even now when there are near people I can hear the nerves in my voice.

She can just stand up and talk about anything, isn't after to speak about anything but I'll ask her about things and she'll say she is nervous. Could have fooled me, and convincingly so. I can only imagine myself as a child having to get up in front of the class and tell everyone about some object or thing for 5 minutes. Would have been a disaster, couldn't even do decent presentations in college.

When I first came here and I met an Irish fella who helped me get an interview and subsequently the job. He said don't be afraid to be confident, don't play down anything and dont disparage yourself because the Americans won't do any of that. I ended doing something I'd never do in an Irish or English interview, I had made up a bunch of job seeker business cards. My boss had never seen anything like it and he told me later as soon as I did that he wanted to hire me. Said he never seen an Irish or English person with that confidence. I was absolutely faking it, its a wonder the woman liked me I was a nervous wreck on our first date

My brother flew in and out of America for a number of years up around Chicago I think, as a sales and service manager for an English company whenever Caterpillar had issues with their fans.
He said he was immediately struck by the fact the Americans were never backwards in coming forwards. Not something you always encounter in the UK where people are a bit more reserved.
He also said they love a trier, and giving it a go and failing was ok, not giving a go because of the fear of failure and forever wondering what would have happened is unforgiveable.
It is a country and people that he was very at home with, but strangely when offered the chance by Caterpillar to move there permanent the pull of family here stopped him.

 

[BodyButter]

So what have we concluded? Is it that racism is bad and that everyone should get a fair go?

 

[danvilla2]

So what have we concluded? Is it that racism is bad and that everyone should get a fair go?

Racism is bad and everyone has a fair go.

 

[Stephen Jay Hawkings]

So what have we concluded? Is it that racism is bad and that everyone should get a fair go?

Yes, and that people of colour need to be represented by at least 50% in majority white countries where people of colour make up a very small percentage of the population.

But non-white countries? Nah they're fine....

 

[Villan57]

My brother flew in and out of America for a number of years up around Chicago I think, as a sales and service manager for an English company whenever Caterpillar had issues with their fans.
He said he was immediately struck by the fact the Americans were never backwards in coming forwards. Not something you always encounter in the UK where people are a bit more reserved.
He also said they love a trier, and giving it a go and failing was ok, not giving a go because of the fear of failure and forever wondering what would have happened is unforgiveable.
It is a country and people that he was very at home with, but strangely when offered the chance by Caterpillar to move there permanent the pull of family here stopped him.

I worked for CAT for 4 years Wolverhampton, not Illinois. good share issue and pension scheme shite wages though

 

[CDX_EIRE]

My brother flew in and out of America for a number of years up around Chicago I think, as a sales and service manager for an English company whenever Caterpillar had issues with their fans.
He said he was immediately struck by the fact the Americans were never backwards in coming forwards. Not something you always encounter in the UK where people are a bit more reserved.
He also said they love a trier, and giving it a go and failing was ok, not giving a go because of the fear of failure and forever wondering what would have happened is unforgiveable.
It is a country and people that he was very at home with, but strangely when offered the chance by Caterpillar to move there permanent the pull of family here stopped him.

Americans have the lottery mentality where they all think they can make it. They also have the mentality like you say, you can reach for the stars and are applauded for doing so. It has its downfalls, raising kids here is even more expensive and I don't know if it is design or neglect but you basically need to go private for everything.

IMO American is bigger and better and you can almost do anything but the flip side is it is seductive, dangerous and offers you everything needed to destroy yourself and it is easily available.

Europe I feel is a place of moderation and that moderation makes social mobility harder. America is a place of excess but also scarcity which facilitates fast social mobility. Its very hard to get a successful business up off the ground in Europe but America and Americans facilitate it.

Its a strange and interesting place and its certainly changed me a lot. Consumption definitely being one of the larger issues I struggle to curb given the convenience of everything. I used to be someone who would regularly buy lunch, get a latte or three a week and then frivolously get a load of crap from Amazon. You just don't do things at that level at home, I know things have changed a little but its still no where near the insanity of consumption here.

Off on a tangent again, what I am trying to say is I don't blame your brother. There is so much to think about. He'd have to private for everything to give his kids the best possible chance, that isnt really required in Ireland or England. You can rely on public services, push them and hope they get into a school with a decent degree and they've a great chance at a good life. Here its a struggle if you don't go to a private school or a well-known college.

 

[wittonite]

Americans have the lottery mentality where they all think they can make it. They also have the mentality like you say, you can reach for the stars and are applauded for doing so. It has its downfalls, raising kids here is even more expensive and I don't know if it is design or neglect but you basically need to go private for everything.

IMO American is bigger and better and you can almost do anything but the flip side is it is seductive, dangerous and offers you everything needed to destroy yourself and it is easily available.

Europe I feel is a place of moderation and that moderation makes social mobility harder. America is a place of excess but also scarcity which facilitates fast social mobility. Its very hard to get a successful business up off the ground in Europe but America and Americans facilitate it.

Its a strange and interesting place and its certainly changed me a lot. Consumption definitely being one of the larger issues I struggle to curb given the convenience of everything. I used to be someone who would regularly buy lunch, get a latte or three a week and then frivolously get a load of crap from Amazon. You just don't do things at that level at home, I know things have changed a little but its still no where near the insanity of consumption here.

Off on a tangent again, what I am trying to say is I don't blame your brother. There is so much to think about. He'd have to private for everything to give his kids the best possible chance, that isnt really required in Ireland or England. You can rely on public services, push them and hope they get into a school with a decent degree and they've a great chance at a good life. Here its a struggle if you don't go to a private school or a well-known college.

It sounds fascinating CDX.
Could you settle to a life back in Ireland after your experiences in America, or say maybe London.

 

[wittonite]

Yes, and that people of colour need to be represented by at least 50% in majority white countries where people of colour make up a very small percentage of the population.

But non-white countries? Nah they're fine....

I have just read your comment again, as I was going to ask you to explain the logic behind it, but realize now you are being ironic.
In a similar vein it was announced last week that BBC are to make 40% of all their staff from minorities even though their representation in society is far smaller.

 

[colavfc]

I have just read your comment again, as I was going to ask you to explain the logic behind it, but realize now you are being ironic.
In a similar vein it was announced last week that BBC are to make 40% of all their staff from minorities even though their representation in society is far smaller.

I doubt the BBC will be around for much longer as we know it anyway. Vile they are. Not referring to their recruitment process but in general they are poison.

 

[wittonite]

I doubt the BBC will be around for much longer as we know it anyway. Vile they are. Not referring to their recruitment process but in general they are poison.

Agree 100% mate. It really irks me that I am forced to pay for their virtue signalling leftie shit that they put out under threat of imprisonment if I dont have a licence.
They know if they were forced into a subscription model they would go bankrupt overnight and be unable to pay their hugely inflated wages to their presenters.
It cannot go on in a digital world where the BBC and terrestrial tv in general are an anachronism.

 

[danvilla2]

Its very hard to get a successful business up off the ground in Europe but America and Americans facilitate it.

I do think this is something where Britain excels at on this continent. I was reading a few years ago and I doubt much has changed, there’s quite a lot of bureaucracy to start a business in France, whereas in England the hardest part about starting a business is deciding what name to call it!

It’s why the FinTech industry is growing rapidly in London, because chancers who operate as a sole trader or a couple of people are able to hotdesk around the city on low overhead models and if they are able to produce something useful that grows, Britain has a new big company whereas Paris, doesn’t.

Downsides here are that any joker can start a business, and that can lead to fraud and just poor service. But they soon get wiped out one way or another as that’s not sustainable.

 

[CDX_EIRE]

It sounds fascinating CDX.
Could you settle to a life back in Ireland after your experiences in America, or say maybe London.

I think so, it would difficult but theres a lot less to worry about. London is on our list of maybe locations, especially because work would be very easy to find for me. Ireland presents a challenge because the missus is a therapist and Ireland is about a decade or more behind.

I do think this is something where Britain excels at on this continent. I was reading a few years ago and I doubt much has changed, there’s quite a lot of bureaucracy to start a business in France, whereas in England the hardest part about starting a business is deciding what name to call it!

Downsides here are that any joker can start a business, and that can lead to fraud and just poor service. But they soon get wiped out one way or another as that’s not sustainable.

America is exactly the same, pyramid schemes and general fraudulent companies pop up all the time but I think that's just the price you pay to facilitate a strong economy and entrepreneurship.

Europe incl. Ireland does tend to nuke the world at times. People need protection but some stuff you just can't protect them from. Whether its a lad from Warwick selling some multiple-level marketing thing or people in developing countries saying a king wants to give you $10,000. Someone is going to trick them.