Pre-Season Business | Page 3 | Vital Football

Pre-Season Business

Apollyon - 27/7/2017 20:21

mao tse tung - 27/7/2017 19:56

Apollyon - 27/7/2017 19:50

Im completely underwhelmed by the signing of Bouchalakis and if he was our final signing they im left a little fat if im honest
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Corrected that for you, sumo!
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Im carrying a couple of pounds but its the cheeses fault. It calls me, normally around 21:30
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Nothing wrong with Cheese, flower!

Just demolished a mighty fine Goats Cheese Risotto, washed down with a Montelpulciano Bordino; magnifico!
 
Hardy Forest - 27/7/2017 20:25

Pope John XXIII - 27/7/2017 20:07

Hardy Forest - 27/7/2017 20:01

So you don't think he did a good job with Brentford? You didn't see any improvement in how the players played at the end of last season? I'm not talking about results.
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1) Yes

2) no, not really. I saw 4 games and we were awful for at least as much of the time as we were good, probably more.

I would say when we were better we were way better and when we were bad we were just as bad as before

3) I know what I saw. No problem if you don't believe me, that's your prerogative
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Hey, of course I believe you, your opinion is your opinion! No need to be touchy, I respect your opinion. However, your answer to question one and the fact that at times you thought we were way better, surely gives you at least a little bit of hope that he knows what he's doing? After all, that was with only a relatively short amount of time, coaching wise and with none of his own signings.
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I'm not being touchy HF, I'm just answering honestly and it's hard to get the right tone across the internet. Not being tetchy with you at all!

Yes, I have a little hope. I can see the scenario where we are the surprise package of the season. I just don't see it as a very likely scenario!
 
I'm interested to see such polarised views of our business so far. I'm actually happy with what I've seen without necessarily being blown away by it. However Paul Taylor's piece in the Post 10 days or so ago highlighted the fact we are operating on a different level to the clubs with parachute payments. What he didn't really touch on is that Fawaz's mismanagement has also left us behind many of the other clubs in the championship in terms of finances, infrastructure and playing staff. We are clearly still hamstrung by FFP and whilst we aren't alone in this (see Derby & Sheff Weds this summer) we are doing so from a weaker starting position. Derby have also sold off their most saleable assets and Rowett has said the same about wanting a smaller squad as Warburton. In McKay I think we've got a player who could well light up this division and there is a balance to our squad that I've not seen for years. In terms of Britt being sold, of course I'd rather he'd stayed, however he's not a special or outstanding player - I'm not convinced he will ever be a premier league striker. However he was our best player and only time will tell if we end up being a better team without him. What's clear from the pre season games is that Warburton is wanting more mobile strikers or in Murphy someone who can hold the ball up if needed. Neither of those were Britt's strengths and there were times in the last few games of last season where he was very poor. That's not slagging him off because he showed against Ipswich what he is all about but we didn't see enough of it last season. £15m is excellent business and if that money goes some way to allowing us to get stronger over the next 18/24 months where we can build steadily then all well and good. Personally I'm confident we are capable of a top half finish this season with play offs not out of the question. However a solid infrastructure and firm financial footing is just as important and you only have to look at Brighton or Swansea or Bournemouth as examples of what can happen if you get it right off the pitch. Unfortunately as I've already said we are way behind and so there is no quick fix. I'm happy we aren't falling into the trap of overspending in terms of transfer fees and wages. We've been down that route for 20 years and it's got us nowhere. It does mean we miss out on targets which is frustrating but for every Mahoney, Irvine or Hector there are three equally as good players out there. If we end up with McKay, Gardner, the Greek and a different centre half then great. Warburton, Weir & McParland have done it before at Brentford and currently I think they are as good a fit for Forest as we can wish for.
 
That's fair enough. I guess we will just have to see how the season progresses. I didn't think you were being tetchy, just didn't want you to think I was questioning your right to an opinion.

I guess the reason I'm feeling so positive, is that this is the first time for god knows how long, that I've actually liked the manager we have appointed. Probably since Paul Hart was appointed in all honesty. I was really impressed with Brentford when we played them under him. So maybe I am slightly overly optimistic!
 
Pope John XXIII - 27/7/2017 20:35

Hardy Forest - 27/7/2017 20:25

Pope John XXIII - 27/7/2017 20:07

Hardy Forest - 27/7/2017 20:01

So you don't think he did a good job with Brentford? You didn't see any improvement in how the players played at the end of last season? I'm not talking about results.
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1) Yes

2) no, not really. I saw 4 games and we were awful for at least as much of the time as we were good, probably more.

I would say when we were better we were way better and when we were bad we were just as bad as before

3) I know what I saw. No problem if you don't believe me, that's your prerogative
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Hey, of course I believe you, your opinion is your opinion! No need to be touchy, I respect your opinion. However, your answer to question one and the fact that at times you thought we were way better, surely gives you at least a little bit of hope that he knows what he's doing? After all, that was with only a relatively short amount of time, coaching wise and with none of his own signings.
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I'm not being touchy HF, I'm just answering honestly and it's hard to get the right tone across the internet. Not being tetchy with you at all!

Yes, I have a little hope. I can see the scenario where we are the surprise package of the season. I just don't see it as a very likely scenario!
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Which four games did you go to?

I'm guessing:

Derby which was moderate.

Blackburn which was dire

Ipswich which was very good in parts

The last one must have been either Huddersfield, which was the best performance I witnessed last season, or Reading, which again, was very good in parts, apart from some shambolic defending.

Blackburn aside, we were far from awful.
 
The good thing with MW is he does try to get the team playing good football which gives any manager a good start as far as I am concerned
We have to remember he hasnt actually been a manager for very long so still learning
Think he needs to learn from his Rangers experience where he was accused of reacting badly to criticism
Didn't he say something like
If we had won 4 more games and Celtic had lost a game we would only be ten points behind them!
Something like that anyway! Needs to avoid such nonsense
 
BarrowRed - 27/7/2017 21:41

I'm interested to see such polarised views of our business so far. I'm actually happy with what I've seen without necessarily being blown away by it. However Paul Taylor's piece in the Post 10 days or so ago highlighted the fact we are operating on a different level to the clubs with parachute payments. What he didn't really touch on is that Fawaz's mismanagement has also left us behind many of the other clubs in the championship in terms of finances, infrastructure and playing staff. We are clearly still hamstrung by FFP and whilst we aren't alone in this (see Derby & Sheff Weds this summer) we are doing so from a weaker starting position. Derby have also sold off their most saleable assets and Rowett has said the same about wanting a smaller squad as Warburton. In McKay I think we've got a player who could well light up this division and there is a balance to our squad that I've not seen for years. In terms of Britt being sold, of course I'd rather he'd stayed, however he's not a special or outstanding player - I'm not convinced he will ever be a premier league striker. However he was our best player and only time will tell if we end up being a better team without him. What's clear from the pre season games is that Warburton is wanting more mobile strikers or in Murphy someone who can hold the ball up if needed. Neither of those were Britt's strengths and there were times in the last few games of last season where he was very poor. That's not slagging him off because he showed against Ipswich what he is all about but we didn't see enough of it last season. £15m is excellent business and if that money goes some way to allowing us to get stronger over the next 18/24 months where we can build steadily then all well and good. Personally I'm confident we are capable of a top half finish this season with play offs not out of the question. However a solid infrastructure and firm financial footing is just as important and you only have to look at Brighton or Swansea or Bournemouth as examples of what can happen if you get it right off the pitch. Unfortunately as I've already said we are way behind and so there is no quick fix. I'm happy we aren't falling into the trap of overspending in terms of transfer fees and wages. We've been down that route for 20 years and it's got us nowhere. It does mean we miss out on targets which is frustrating but for every Mahoney, Irvine or Hector there are three equally as good players out there. If we end up with McKay, Gardner, the Greek and a different centre half then great. Warburton, Weir & McParland have done it before at Brentford and currently I think they are as good a fit for Forest as we can wish for.
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Nice paragraphs, I like the way you subtlety blend them all together.
 
mao tse tung - 27/7/2017 20:32

Apollyon - 27/7/2017 20:21

mao tse tung - 27/7/2017 19:56

Apollyon - 27/7/2017 19:50

Im completely underwhelmed by the signing of Bouchalakis and if he was our final signing they im left a little fat if im honest
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Corrected that for you, sumo!
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Im carrying a couple of pounds but its the cheeses fault. It calls me, normally around 21:30
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with Cheese, flower!

Just demolished a mighty fine Goats Cheese Risotto, washed down with a Montelpulciano Bordino; magnifico!
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FFS every knows you have a Sancerre or Sav blanc with goats cheese

What next? Ketchup on a bacon cob?

 
orbitalforest - 27/7/2017 16:43

Sidney Vicious - 27/7/2017 15:32

It's been a good summer so far with a good balance of youth and experience coming in I can see what the management team are trying to do here. There is no weight of expectation hanging over the squad or the coaching staff for he coming season as our chairman has already stated that this seasons aim is not to be involved in a relegation battle. Things off the pitch are looking really good, new ticketing system, new premier league standard dug outs and changing rooms, new pitch (looking amazing), City Ground cleaned up and painted, 16,500 season tickets sold (raising around 6m), record sales on new home & away shirts and I'm told executive boxes and hospitality sales are also going very well. On the playing side of things I think we might surprise a few. Really looking forward to the new season for a change. Yep, Sidney's a happy clappy chappie!
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:35:
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:30:
 
Pope John XXIII - 27/7/2017 19:57

Hardy Forest - 27/7/2017 19:52

Pope John XXIII - 27/7/2017 19:40

Hardy Forest - 27/7/2017 19:13

On the face of it, neither did Huddersfield did they? A relatively unknown German manager, with no knowledge of this league, brings in a bunch of unknown 2nd division German players, that he had inside knowledge of, and hey presto, promotion.
I'm not saying that approach could work all the time, but you never know.
Here we are, with a progressive manager, with a proven track record in this league, who has brought in some players that he has knowledge of and who he thinks will fit his system, and some are complaining.
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Yep, because I don't think it will work.

For every Huddersfield there are another 10 clubs who do the exact same thing and fail. We have been one of them many times, including last year.

It's all nice being positive. But we need everything he has done to click.

Are we even stonger than last season?

33 of last season's 62 goals were scored by players who are no longer at the club. How sure are we that those goals, which were only barely enough, are going to be replaced let alone bettered?

You have to accept the possibility.

A number of our top targets have not arrived at the club. You can all be happy, but MW probably won't be ecstatic at how it has gone. Players he wanted here have gone elsewhere and he has been left with second or third choices.

The most solid, out of the box good signing (Darikwa) is in a position that is already adequately covered.

Two young players have arrived ready to play - that's it. Our season will hinge on Greek guy and the two Scots and whether they can be amazing or not.

And this progressive manager has been playing our most outstanding young striker in a generation at right wing back. I saw Brereton's face when he went down the tunnel on Tuesday and it was just as bemused as mine was
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A good coach gets more out of the players he already has, and I believe we have one. I can't stand Liverpool, but watched an interview with Klopp, who I do rate, last week on Sky. Interestingly he thought that in this country fans are obsessed with always signing new players, but in his opinion a good coach improves those players he already has in his squad, if he believes in them. In an ideal world he felt you should only make a couple of tweaks each time.

As for Brereton, I didn't realise you taught Pyschology as well? Perhaps he was just tired, had a slight niggle, not sure you can make such an assessment from a fleeting glance Pope. I doubt very much we will be seeing him play wing back very often. Anyway, it was only yesterday you were saying You hoped he would be playing Velios up front if he was scoring regularly.
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Brereton has been moved back there twice in friendlies now. It has nothing to do with tiredness- you bring players off when they are tired in friendlies and he did so with Ben.

I haven't a clue what he is playing at with that.

I hope whichever striker is most in form starts. That means if Vellios is the most in form I hope he will get his opportunity and not be left out. In reality we will be playing 3-4-3 or 4-2-3-1 or some derivative.

I agree a good coach gets more out of their players. I bet you can guess the bit we disagree on here
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I liked the suggestion (sorry, can't remember who made it) that BB is being played out of position to keep the spotlight off him after he finished joint top scorer in a tournament England won.

If he'd got 5 in 3 games there might be big clubs offering silly money. Better to ride out this transfer window and give him a chance to establish himself between now and Christmas.

From what I've seen pre-season I'm cautiously optimistic.
 
There's one thing you can bet your boots on and that's the chance to see much better football than you're used too.

That's half the battle, the other half is the likelyhood of finishing in the top half of the table. That'll be a change too.
 
Pope John XXIII - 27/7/2017 16:20

Calvin Plummer - 27/7/2017 16:00

Pope John XXIII - 27/7/2017 14:41

I think it's been dreadful on the whole.

We've done a spurs- sold a special player and replaced with a quantity of mediocrity.

If we had signed loads of players for the future that would be one thing. But we haven't. £2m on a 34 year old FFS. McKay and Cummings are punts that might work and are the only ones we can look forward to.

Could easily start with the same team as last year minus the three best players.

We've also lost out on as many targets as we have got. If Greek fella is the last and we miss out on Hector then it's been an appalling window IMO
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Given that we clearly needed to sell to buy and comply what would have been a good summer to you?

We've added:

2 young talented players
1 exciting RWB
1 CM used to playing at a higher level
1 Proven goalscorer

We also have Clough who should hopefully be settling in along with a number of young players who have all had a year to mature.

A list of realistic signing that we've missed who've gone to fellow relegation rivals with financial constraints similar to ours will make interesting reading. I look forward to it.
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I'll be happy to provide it for you once you arrange for the club to pay me for such a service. McParland has been paid for identifying old players he knows so it shouldn't be too hard.

But until that happens you can whistle CP. I'm under no obligation to provide anything to you to justify having an opinion- especially when your opinion is simultaneously justified with more opinion.

I've voiced my opinion and provided sufficient rationale for it.

I know you find it hard to simply say 'it's disagree' but that's the way it's going to have to be. Your patronising comments are not going to change my mind.
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Don't wanna get in the middle of your bromance but striping out cp's love for u his basic question still stands; for those that feel the window has been poor, what would have constituted a 'good window'?

As I and others have pointed out, the answer to that question very much depends on what ur goals are. ours is about stability while we go about rebuilding. In this context it seems disingenuous to call this window poor.

That we have had a no. of signings this early and can even pass comment is indicative of the added professionalism we have seen this window.

It's not happy clapping time yet, long way to go but think it is time to put away the doom and gloom- at least till next friday...
 
some people are seriously deluded and half of us at least know who is most deluded of all. meeeeeeeeeee! , no not me :p

Absolutely cracking window. The Scottish lads are already clearly underpriced, its as clear as day. I was worried about centre mid but we seem to be getting bodies in there that for me are likley better than we already have, And even when I say 'worry', more like I wish it was better as oppose tro any concern we wont have a good season with good attacking football. Cover all over the park too, off pitch all going great..

If you find negatives really in it so far you need putting down and out of your misery. or perhaps its some fawaz type fantasy that we shud be aiming for our third star year after next :19: :19: :19: :19:
 
Here's a list courtesy of Stuart Watson naming strikers signed by Championship clubs so far this summer ( Fletcher for Mboro not added).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFwANtzW0AQ__bs.jpg:large

Apart from Mboro's outlay most of these players are well within the clubs budget given the sale of BA , the question is are there any missed players that MW / McP could have recruited that would have enhanced the club aims in achieving a higher position?

 
As mention earlier by a poster would have Liam Boyce ( Burton 500K) have been worth a punt given that he is a proven top goalscorer at top level Scotish football?

I haven't seen enough of him to to formulate a strong opinion but Boyce does look useful going by this You tube clip and given that he was playing with inferior players as opposed to top level clubs he did well to achieve top scorer status in the SPL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANq5VWczek8
 
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