Oxford v NUFC FA Cup 4th Round | Page 4 | Vital Football

Oxford v NUFC FA Cup 4th Round

Neppos - 29/1/2017 00:52

Managers play fringe players in Cup shocker. Wenger, Puel, Hughton, Pochettino, Benitez, Klopp etc etc.

I wonder if Brighton supporters are slagging off Hughton?
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The differences being

Wenger Pochettino and Klopp should have enough in their respective squads to get through. The first 2 did (one just) the other fucked up. And believe me there will be an inquest on that 1 . There is suddenly a big dip in results for the media darlings generally so I don't think it can be levelled entirely at squad rotation/team selection in any event.

Puel has already made a cup final - I'm sure he'll be forgiven.

Hughton - is managing the expectations and their boards policy. There seems to an expectancy there they would field a weakened team and that is reflected in the gate they got last round, which was less than 11K Brighton fans. Basically everyone knows the score there. The difference at Newcastle is that everyone appears sucked into a belief things will be different. That is reflected in sold out away games and a bumper home crowd for a replay. Why people are sucked in is down to the superficial charm factor under the guise of the Rafalution when reality says "business as usual"

 
Toony - just got up and Vin has beaten me to it in one respect - you can't split yourself in 2!

There are 2 kind of themes running at NUFC. There are the "soft" skills involving PR/charm offensives through increased communication aimed at pacifying the fan base. This has been effective via 3 channels: the club itself and its own media platforms and channels; its spokes paper Pravda/Chronicle, which refuses to expose, or engage in, debate on club policies and owner involvement and the all to willing public who are desperate to believe. The second theme is the "hard" reality and this manifests itself in club policy. To me it is clear that club policy remains the same- be it in player recruitment; cup squads and ambition-level. We have seen that only recently re the £33M loan of the clubs own transfer profit and Ashley recently bumping his gums re recruitment. Hard policy will always trump any charm offensive. There is no change in the way things are run at NUFC and that is the sole ambition to make Ashley money. Nothing more, nothing less. There is absolutely no sporting ambition at that club whatsoever. Anybody who thinks differently is deluded, frankly.



 
Toon_NoMatterWot - 29/1/2017 02:11

Again I'll say for the millionth time, that's not me in real life but the role ive created for my position on this forum.
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Fair enough toony.

I've got to say though,the way you go on about Benitez is worth more to Ashley than the SD advertising he shoves down our throat every fortnight or so.

You certainly had me fooled.
 
Finn_the_Dog - 29/1/2017 09:35

Neppos - 29/1/2017 00:52

Managers play fringe players in Cup shocker. Wenger, Puel, Hughton, Pochettino, Benitez, Klopp etc etc.

I wonder if Brighton supporters are slagging off Hughton?
Click to expand...

The differences being

Wenger Pochettino and Klopp should have enough in their respective squads to get through. The first 2 did (one just) the other fucked up. And believe me there will be an inquest on that 1 . There is suddenly a big dip in results for the media darlings generally so I don't think it can be levelled entirely at squad rotation/team selection in any event.

Puel has already made a cup final - I'm sure he'll be forgiven.

Hughton - is managing the expectations and their boards policy. There seems to an expectancy there they would field a weakened team and that is reflected in the gate they got last round, which was less than 11K Brighton fans. Basically everyone knows the score there. The difference at Newcastle is that everyone appears sucked into a belief things will be different. That is reflected in sold out away games and a bumper home crowd for a replay. Why people are sucked in is down to the superficial charm factor under the guise of the Rafalution when reality says "business as usual"
Click to expand...

And you beat me to this one finn.

The only thing I would have added is the depth of Brighton's squad,
Hughton does not have the resources available to Benitez.
 
Indeed Pie. Yes - thank you. I saw your links the other day and very informative.

I would further add we aren't in a position surely of "well - why shouldn't we play a weakened side - Brighton do" God help us all if we allow our ambition level to sink that low. Surely a club as big as Newcastle shouldn't be fielding reserves who have got no chance of breaking through and/or haven't played for the club at senior level for over 3 years in the 4th round of the fa cup? We may as well all pack up and go home - what actually is the point of a football club?
 
Finn_the_Dog - 29/1/2017 10:18

Surely a club as big as Newcastle shouldn't be fielding reserves who have got no chance of breaking through and/or haven't played for the club at senior level for over 3 years in the 4th round of the fa cup? We may as well all pack up and go home - what actually is the point of a football club?
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Would love Benitez to understand this.
 
I am sure those supporters will be spewing at seeing a second rate side put out, after making their way to Oxford.

Supporters, no, Sheep yes, the supporters have seen what this regime are up to and voted with their feet.

Lots of fans call NUFC fans deluded.....

On this occasion I agree.
 
PieMag - 29/1/2017 11:53

Finn_the_Dog - 29/1/2017 10:18

Surely a club as big as Newcastle shouldn't be fielding reserves who have got no chance of breaking through and/or haven't played for the club at senior level for over 3 years in the 4th round of the fa cup? We may as well all pack up and go home - what actually is the point of a football club?
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Would love Benitez to understand this.
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This
 
The point of a football club nowadays is to make money for it's owners. The PL, FA and Sky have actively encouraged this. Is there not `a fit and proper person test' in some fucking rule book or other. If you look at Hull, Coventry, Blackpool, Blackburn, Leeds and and Newcastle to name a few you have to wonder why it hasn't been put into use before now.
 
I bet they pray every early December "God - let it be Chelsea away" just so when they are thumped, with the objective safely and thoroughly achieved, it is a little more palatable to the masses "well - Chelsea away - what did we expect?".
 
Having slept on the result and seen the fall out on all aspects of social media, it seems there is a big split amongst the fans.

Those that supported us pre-Sky when ambition actually meant trying to win a game and those that have nowt but the financials to go by.

I try to strike a balance between the two as ive said before in my role as an Alan Robson type mediator and I wont change that as I hate it being negative when there's so much to enjoy about our city.

In a massive period of distrust under Ashley, I trust and respect Benitez to do the job to the best of his ability and think that he wouldn't be a puppet for anyone. I still hold that belief.

I also hold the belief now that cup competitions should be scrapped because with sporting ambition taking a last place to making money at any cost, the risks involved treat the once respected cups with cotton wool hands.

As Benitez said yesterday, he had no choice but to pick the team he did although he also said that they made mistakes and did enough to win in the first half alone. So it wasn't as if he definitely threw the match although my instinct initially was to think that it may have been done to quicken the hand of the negotiators in any transfer business. Now im not so sure.

Also when I say 'the next window' will matter to those with distrusting vibes, I mean the next one after promotion as we would never break the bank to rubber stamp a promotion that is looking more likely than not and with the returning Africans to add to the return of our main strike force, the need to strengthen lessens in what is a notoriously daft and hard market to shop in, in January.

This doesn't mean I dont want a £15m midfielder bought or a £20m striker to add to the squad because who doesnt but that I know how the mind of the club will work although there's no excuses come any potential promotion transfer window.

Limited and diverted income streams aside, if we talk financials then you only need to look as far as the last 5 years to see the self sustained trend with a net spend of £23m overall.

A £23m spend that has achieved 2 relegations and knocked plenty of noughts off the value not to mention lower the expectation level although with a hidden value to Shite Direct, that spend may have seen better value for you know who than many of us. Bucking the trend though, a promotion will see cash available in the bank and no excuse not to spend. Maybe this has already been agreed in writing between Rafa and the club, not when in this league though.

All in all, the older of us dont want to know the financial shite and just want us to be the best we can be but those days are gone with so many devalued traditions around.

 
Finn_the_Dog - 29/1/2017 09:35

Neppos - 29/1/2017 00:52

Managers play fringe players in Cup shocker. Wenger, Puel, Hughton, Pochettino, Benitez, Klopp etc etc.

I wonder if Brighton supporters are slagging off Hughton?
Click to expand...

The differences being

Wenger Pochettino and Klopp should have enough in their respective squads to get through. The first 2 did (one just) the other fucked up. And believe me there will be an inquest on that 1 . There is suddenly a big dip in results for the media darlings generally so I don't think it can be levelled entirely at squad rotation/team selection in any event.

Puel has already made a cup final - I'm sure he'll be forgiven.

Hughton - is managing the expectations and their boards policy. There seems to an expectancy there they would field a weakened team and that is reflected in the gate they got last round, which was less than 11K Brighton fans. Basically everyone knows the score there. The difference at Newcastle is that everyone appears sucked into a belief things will be different. That is reflected in sold out away games and a bumper home crowd for a replay. Why people are sucked in is down to the superficial charm factor under the guise of the Rafalution when reality says "business as usual"
Click to expand...



Ah right, so every other team is justified in rotating their squad other than us. The point is, our reserves should be good enough to beat Oxford, the fact that they aren't is the problem, not the policy of squad rotation.

Inquest at Liverpool? Like the one after Plymouth took them to a replay? Nah, I think they'll let their manager manage.
 
Having let the dust settle for 24 hours, I'm still of the opinion:

While we have bigger fish to fry, that was a golden opportunity to progress to the latter stages, without any undue stress on the squad.

It was a mistake for Benitez to play so much youth, and for them to be so poorly driven to win the match.

In anything other than a promotion or relegation battle, such a decision would be viewed by myself as unacceptable. It's barely acceptable that he has promotion to try an seal - and I'm very pro-Benitez.
 
Neppos - 29/1/2017 15:37

Finn_the_Dog - 29/1/2017 09:35

Neppos - 29/1/2017 00:52

Managers play fringe players in Cup shocker. Wenger, Puel, Hughton, Pochettino, Benitez, Klopp etc etc.

I wonder if Brighton supporters are slagging off Hughton?
Click to expand...

The differences being

Wenger Pochettino and Klopp should have enough in their respective squads to get through. The first 2 did (one just) the other fucked up. And believe me there will be an inquest on that 1 . There is suddenly a big dip in results for the media darlings generally so I don't think it can be levelled entirely at squad rotation/team selection in any event.

Puel has already made a cup final - I'm sure he'll be forgiven.

Hughton - is managing the expectations and their boards policy. There seems to an expectancy there they would field a weakened team and that is reflected in the gate they got last round, which was less than 11K Brighton fans. Basically everyone knows the score there. The difference at Newcastle is that everyone appears sucked into a belief things will be different. That is reflected in sold out away games and a bumper home crowd for a replay. Why people are sucked in is down to the superficial charm factor under the guise of the Rafalution when reality says "business as usual"
Click to expand...



Ah right, so every other team is justified in rotating their squad other than us. The point is, our reserves should be good enough to beat Oxford, the fact that they aren't is the problem, not the policy of squad rotation.

Inquest at Liverpool? Like the one after Plymouth took them to a replay? Nah, I think they'll let their manager manage.
Click to expand...

I gave you a like for the reply as its a good response. The glaring difference with the majority of the teams you mention is that they are regularly in contention for trophies whereas Newcastle have never won anything domestically in over 60 years. They have experience of playing weakened teams with a squad of good players in earlier rounds to good effect. There were queries by Liverpool fans but ultimately no inquest as they got away with it. There will be now but as I said there is suddenly a dip in form across all competitions for them recently.

The point newcastles reserves should have been good enough is a little weak however as they are pretty poor and that has now been proven as you say. Knowing their limitations should have been known and playing a reserve without first team experience in over 3 years was ridiculous in my view. The first team are totally overrated as it is without weakening that much. Unlikely to win a poor league and when given any sort of test like being 1 down or playing the bottom team in the league above when in turmoil, they've been found wanting.
 
Finn_the_Dog - 29/1/2017 10:18

Indeed Pie. Yes - thank you. I saw your links the other day and very informative.

I would further add we aren't in a position surely of "well - why shouldn't we play a weakened side - Brighton do" God help us all if we allow our ambition level to sink that low. Surely a club as big as Newcastle shouldn't be fielding reserves who have got no chance of breaking through and/or haven't played for the club at senior level for over 3 years in the 4th round of the fa cup? We may as well all pack up and go home - what actually is the point of a football club?
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Spot on that mind. See Shearer had a pop at him on BBC as well today. Total joke.

Even more so most of our fans seemingly happy to be out too. Unbelievable.

I thought things were different and have been going home and away this last 12 months after not going from 2013. I fear yesterday was the start of the rotten old days and that's me done till they show some ambition and stop losing cup games on purpose or what's the point if we don't even have hope anymore.
 
Finn_the_Dog - 29/1/2017 17:18

Neppos - 29/1/2017 15:37

Finn_the_Dog - 29/1/2017 09:35

Neppos - 29/1/2017 00:52

Managers play fringe players in Cup shocker. Wenger, Puel, Hughton, Pochettino, Benitez, Klopp etc etc.

I wonder if Brighton supporters are slagging off Hughton?
Click to expand...

The differences being

Wenger Pochettino and Klopp should have enough in their respective squads to get through. The first 2 did (one just) the other fucked up. And believe me there will be an inquest on that 1 . There is suddenly a big dip in results for the media darlings generally so I don't think it can be levelled entirely at squad rotation/team selection in any event.

Puel has already made a cup final - I'm sure he'll be forgiven.

Hughton - is managing the expectations and their boards policy. There seems to an expectancy there they would field a weakened team and that is reflected in the gate they got last round, which was less than 11K Brighton fans. Basically everyone knows the score there. The difference at Newcastle is that everyone appears sucked into a belief things will be different. That is reflected in sold out away games and a bumper home crowd for a replay. Why people are sucked in is down to the superficial charm factor under the guise of the Rafalution when reality says "business as usual"
Click to expand...



Ah right, so every other team is justified in rotating their squad other than us. The point is, our reserves should be good enough to beat Oxford, the fact that they aren't is the problem, not the policy of squad rotation.

Inquest at Liverpool? Like the one after Plymouth took them to a replay? Nah, I think they'll let their manager manage.
Click to expand...

I gave you a like for the reply as its a good response. The glaring difference with the majority of the teams you mention is that they are regularly in contention for trophies whereas Newcastle have never won anything domestically in over 60 years. They have experience of playing weakened teams with a squad of good players in earlier rounds to good effect. There were queries by Liverpool fans but ultimately no inquest as they got away with it. There will be now but as I said there is suddenly a dip in form across all competitions for them recently.

The point newcastles reserves should have been good enough is a little weak however as they are pretty poor and that has now been proven as you say. Knowing their limitations should have been known and playing a reserve without first team experience in over 3 years was ridiculous in my view. The first team are totally overrated as it is without weakening that much. Unlikely to win a poor league and when given any sort of test like being 1 down or playing the bottom team in the league above when in turmoil, they've been found wanting.
Click to expand...



Just to be clear, I never said I was in favour of the policy, but accept it is the policy, not just of NUFC but many many teams.

I went to St Andrews, spent £20 on a match ticket knowing we'd play a weakened team, £60 on a train ticket knowing we'd play a weakened team, £god knows how much on beers and food etc, knowing we'd play a weakened team. Some may call me names for doing so, it's what some supporters do. I've had more enjoyable away days this season than not.

We could debate all day about strengths and weaknesses of arguments, I will just say that today Hull, Watford and Leeds have fielded weakened teams, no great Cup tradition there (I know Hull and Watford have recently made finals, Leeds' last one was in the mid 90s). It's what teams do these days in the face of perceived lesser opposition. Ain't gonna change any time soon.
 
No, I didn't think you did approve of it- I got that. No worries.

My overriding concern Neppos is that the fielding of a weakened team is not through legitimate squad rotation to scrape through and preserve first team regulars for perceived more important games, but moreover that it is a deliberate act to be eliminated from the competition. No team can withstand nine changes and play in a sufficiently coherent fashion to get a result. Those players, and, indeed, Leeds' team today, had never played together in any team, let alone full blown (so-called) competitive action. Basically, they had no chance and it was football suicide.

The likes of arsenal et al usually do this and get away with it (PNE recently); no-mark clubs like Hull today, to attempt to keep their snouts in the premier league trough and others with absolutely no justification at all like Leeds today (they are going to be top 6 but not top 2 so I don't get that team selection today). But regardless of other clubs; their policies and decisions, with Newcastle it has been a cynical policy from day 1 of the Ashley regime. The FA cup is an irritation to them. If plans fail at the 3rd round stage and they accidentally get through, matters are swiftly addressed by the next round. All for the benefit of 1 man. 1 very, very greedy man. Because Newcastle aren't benefitting. And if you say that it's to ensure a return to the premier league, I can't understand what the attraction is if you aren't going to compete; your income is curtailed; transfer profits are retained by the owner; there is a constant turnover of players making any team building impossible and the whole raison d'etre is to stay in that league for as long as possible simply to satisfy Ashley's insatiable greed.

So all that leaves me thinking that either (a) the manager has lost the plot by selecting such a woeful team including a ridiculous choice of Curtis Good, or (b) nothing has changed and the so called Rafalution is nothing but a paper tiger.

Anyway you slice it, I would have thought you and all the other paying supporters would think you deserve so much more than that because, for me, I just don't see the point.
 
There's no doubt it's money related whichever angle we throw at it and I bet anyone any money that if it was something above £1million a win after the 4th round that all the big guns would have played regardless of injury risk to the league assault.
 
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