Our NHS (n/G)

[jogills]

We need to be brave enough to look critically at the NHS and measure where it works well, where it doesn't and where we might improve it. We also need to calm down a little and acknowledge the current apparent crisis is largely driven by demographics.

First task to properly fund and organise social care and stop loading it on the NHS without additional funding. Secondly we shouldn't be bounced into precipitate and damaging reaction to a time limited phenomenal. Us baby boomers will die progressively and the crisis will pass.

 

[Gills77]

They do our shit low paid jobs (hence not much tax) that we aren't prepared to do. Get rid of them and we are f###ed.

In the last 2 years, receiving cancer care (not a serious issue yet), I believe I've met one 'indigenous white' person, a receptionist at my local hospital and one Spaniard at Kings College hospital. Every other person (several dozen) has been one of these "pesky foreigners", especially "brown" ones.

I will forever be grateful for their presence and work here. My treatment has been excellent. F### knows how I'd be without them.

And how much does it cost paying benefits to those who don't want the jobs?

How much needs to be spent on public services because we imported millions of low-skilled people who increase the demand for public services?

If you could get over your obsession with skin colour and answer the above, that would be appreciated.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Does anyone know where any of these 40 new hospitals are?
They've repainted a ward in my local hospital. Perhaps that counts as one.

Well, Junior doctors seem to think there is enough new money about to give them a 35% pay rise and, at the same time, recruit and pay loads of extra staff to reduce their unsustainable workloads.

Expectations seem to be more "and" than "or" in that respect. And yet the Tories first priority is always to cut tax and therefore the revenue streams to fund it.

Although the claim (and threat) is that new qualified doctors will look abroad, it does seem strange how often other doctors from places as far afield as South Africa and Australia, as well as poorer and less developed nations, leave their homes and families to work here. And a good majority of british doctors will have ties here, including family, that will make them want to stay. That is rarely factored in.

 

[Buddha]

And how much does it cost paying benefits to those who don't want the jobs?

How much needs to be spent on public services because we imported millions of low-skilled people who increase the demand for public services?

If you could get over your obsession with skin colour and answer the above, that would be appreciated.

It wouldn't really matter how much any of it costs if it were wealth, rather than income, that was heavily taxed.

There is a huge amount of wealth in this country and taxing it would generate a great deal of public money that could then be spent on public services such as the NHS.

In addition to this, those without wealth but only income would then have a larger income and would therefore have more money to spend. As we all know, spending money improves the economy. This in turn generates additional revenue for the government to spend on public services.

Why would anyone other than the wealthy - who largely don't even require many of the public services because of their great wealth - disagree with this proposal?

 

[chris who]

I want 2% added to income tax and plough those funds direct to the NHS.

I have family living in Sweden and their health care is top class.

People get yearly check-ups by GPS each year after a certain age. This helps discover illnesses at an early stage.

It was being funded by Brexit I was told.The millions we were going to gain every week.The country voted for it I believe. Brexit will pay the cost of the NHS .

 

[Gills 58]

And how much does it cost paying benefits to those who don't want the jobs?

How much needs to be spent on public services because we imported millions of low-skilled people who increase the demand for public services?

If you could get over your obsession with skin colour and answer the above, that would be appreciated.

Haha, pot and kettle re skin colour (foreigners).

Sorry to say this but you seem too dim to be able to understand the arguments/economics (as per the exchange with PUB). Maybe someone like Waldo will have the patience to explain these things to you.

 

[Buddha]

What have the Tories done exactly?

The Tories never wanted the NHS in the first place and fought very hard in parliament to oppose it's creation. They voted against it 22 times including at the third reading.

Since it's creation they have always continued to oppose the NHS, but they have been too scared to admit that what they really believe is that health care should not be a right for all but a privilege for those who can afford it.

Other than for a few brief years right at the beginning of the NHS when the Labour government that created it was also funding it, the health service has been underfunded.

The Tories have always preferred the idea of a privately funded healthcare and - through systematic underinvestment, making the jobs unrewarding and creating waiting lists - it has hoped to encourage the public to turn to the private sector.

Those who can't see this are either blind or stupid.

 

[Gills 58]

What is profitable about that for the Government?

Yes, you have the likes of BUPA and Benenden Health where you can choose to go, and maybe get an operation earlier but also the NHS is paying some private enterprises to take some of the pressure off them. My partner is having an endoscopy at a Private Hospital shortly which is coming out of the NHS budget, but she isn't paying for it.

The tipping point will be if any part of the NHS say they are withdrawing a service or that it must separately be paid for. Then it will no longer be free at the point of use/need. That may happen, but not so far.

It is not profitable for the Government, it is for the private company. They cream off the "easy" stuff and if they f### up they dump it back on the conventional NHS service.

Sorry if I've misinterpreted your comment.

 

[Archiepoptart]

The private sector only want the easy operations on easy patients. What they dont want is anything risky or tricky.
Anything goes wrong in the private sector and the NHS picks up the crap.
Also when you get treated under the NHS , the chances are you'll get an SHO who is doing five or six of your operation a week. This is good. The guy you really don't want (private sector) is the crusty old Prof. who just wants to keep his hand in and make a few Bob.

 

[Buddha]

It was being funded by Brexit I was told.The millions we were going to gain every week.The country voted for it I believe. Brexit will pay the cost of the NHS .

It was a lie, Chris.

You didn't believe it, did you?!

 

[Buddha]

I want 2% added to income tax and plough those funds direct to the NHS.

I have family living in Sweden and their health care is top class.

People get yearly check-ups by GPS each year after a certain age. This helps discover illnesses at an early stage.

Why do you want to increase income tax? Wouldn't it be fairer to tax wealth instead?

 

[Buddha]

That doesn't.supriae me, when my son had an operation at Lewisham hospital when he was a baby we were.the only white patients on the ward.

Whilst most parents would be concentrating on their baby's operation and praying for a successful outcome, 3x6 was instead busy checking out the skin colour of those also unfortunate enough to be relying on an underfunded NHS to provide them and their loved ones with vital health care...

 

[GillsBluenose]

It was being funded by Brexit I was told.The millions we were going to gain every week.The country voted for it I believe. Brexit will pay the cost of the NHS .

Sweden only has a total population of 1.5 million people more than London so not exactly a direct comparison but I am on a screening programme for bowel cancer and recently had screening for aortic aneurism. Every hospital that I know have has a breast screening unit and my partner is sent reminders. There are far too many diseases to screen for everything.

You live in Suffolk don't you? Well the following are just two examples of investment being made in my own local hospital:

See inside hospital's new 32-bed ward as first patients welcomed

The first patients have been treated at a hospital's new 32-bed ward which has been built to allow for urgent repairs at the site.

www.suffolknews.co.uk

Hospital gives community the chance to help design future services at new site

A hospital is urging staff, patients and the community to share their thoughts in a survey to shape the future of health services at its new site.

www.suffolknews.co.uk

Of course we could instead still be making EU contributions so they can redistribute it in grants or subsidies to countries that make no decent contributions themselves, like Bulgaria, and they can then build hospitals over there instead.

Depends what you want really.

 

[NWBluesFan]

I hope the Gills sign a new player every week this summer...

 

[Therealwaldo]

Well, Junior doctors seem to think there is enough new money about to give them a 35% pay rise and, at the same time, recruit and pay loads of extra staff to reduce their unsustainable workloads.

Expectations seem to be more "and" than "or" in that respect. And yet the Tories first priority is always to cut tax and therefore the revenue streams to fund it.

Although the claim (and threat) is that new qualified doctors will look abroad, it does seem strange how often other doctors from places as far afield as South Africa and Australia, as well as poorer and less developed nations, leave their homes and families to work here. And a good majority of british doctors will have ties here, including family, that will make them want to stay. That is rarely factored in.

Apparently the government are fine with taking the cap off bankers’ bonuses using the argument that we must retain the best in the UK. However, when it comes to doctors, the same argument doesn’t apply. If you’d bothered to listen to the doctors and the BMA you might understand that they’re not only arguing to have their pay restored to pre austerity levels for themselves but to stop the drain of staff that is continuing. They are concerned about patient safety when the levels of understaffing are at record levels.

Good luck finding an Australian doctor in the UK. If you do, they’ll be one of a tiny minority. On the other hand Australian hospitals are full of UK trained staff who prefer Australia for (a) the pay and (b) the fact that they are not under the same pressure because Australian hospitals are not understaffed. In the meantime large numbers of EU nationals working in the NHS have left since 2016.

You might also want to know the extent of the ineptitude of the current government. I think we all know that there’s a crisis in GP availability. A couple of weeks ago there was a survey that found at the moment there are 9 (nine) vacancies for GPs in the whole of Greater London. When GP practices were questioned it was found that they are desperately short of GPs but they can’t afford to recruit them under the current GP contracts. Instead they are being funded to pay for unqualified ‘clinical assistants’.

 

[Therealwaldo]

Sweden only has a total population of 1.5 million people more than London so not exactly a direct comparison but I am on a screening programme for bowel cancer and recently had screening for aortic aneurism. Every hospital that I know have has a breast screening unit and my partner is sent reminders. There are far too many diseases to screen for everything.

You live in Suffolk don't you? Well the following are just two examples of investment being made in my own local hospital:

See inside hospital's new 32-bed ward as first patients welcomed

The first patients have been treated at a hospital's new 32-bed ward which has been built to allow for urgent repairs at the site.

www.suffolknews.co.uk

Hospital gives community the chance to help design future services at new site

A hospital is urging staff, patients and the community to share their thoughts in a survey to shape the future of health services at its new site.

www.suffolknews.co.uk

Of course we could instead still be making EU contributions so they can redistribute it in grants or subsidies to countries that make no decent contributions themselves, like Bulgaria, and they can then build hospitals over there instead.

Depends what you want really.

Of course, as usual, completely ignoring the enormous hit that our economy has taken following Brexit. The reason you’re losing this particular argument (look at the polls) is because people like you continue to say that everything is fine since we left whilst everyone else can see the wreckage that is our public finances. You’re saying it’s sunny whilst everyone else can see it’s pissing down.

 

[chris who]

It was a lie, Chris.

You didn't believe it, did you?!

It was a sarcastic remark .But many did I believe that is part of the reason why lies caught up with the Boris and Co .Tories were the main sellers of the myth of the invisible money .My wife who is a care worker was fooled but the lies .She now has a total hatred for all those behind the campaign especially the leading exponents.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Of course, as usual, completely ignoring the enormous hit that our economy has taken following Brexit. The reason you’re losing this particular argument (look at the polls) is because people like you continue to say that everything is fine since we left whilst everyone else can see the wreckage that is our public finances. You’re saying it’s sunny whilst everyone else can see it’s pissing down.

Easy solution. If what you say is true, I look forward to seeing the policy of rejoining the EU (at all cost, of course) in the Labour and Liberal Democrat manifestos. Even the Tory one, possibly if they believe the tide of public opinion has changed as much as you think, as well. What's stopping them?

Meanwhile whiny old farts like you can choose to ignore Covid, Ukraine, German and general EU wide economic stagnation, Tory incompetence and greed, and and all other world events which couldn't possibly adversely affect those public finances. It's that Brexit, Gladys, that did it.

You can choose to be positive and live in the present, or just keep finding any ill or shortcomings (which always exist) to be the fault of Brexit. Real spirit of the Blitz. Yah !!

 

[chris who]

Sweden only has a total population of 1.5 million people more than London so not exactly a direct comparison but I am on a screening programme for bowel cancer and recently had screening for aortic aneurism. Every hospital that I know have has a breast screening unit and my partner is sent reminders. There are far too many diseases to screen for everything.

You live in Suffolk don't you? Well the following are just two examples of investment being made in my own local hospital:

See inside hospital's new 32-bed ward as first patients welcomed

The first patients have been treated at a hospital's new 32-bed ward which has been built to allow for urgent repairs at the site.

www.suffolknews.co.uk

Hospital gives community the chance to help design future services at new site

A hospital is urging staff, patients and the community to share their thoughts in a survey to shape the future of health services at its new site.

www.suffolknews.co.uk

Of course we could instead still be making EU contributions so they can redistribute it in grants or subsidies to countries that make no decent contributions themselves, like Bulgaria, and they can then build hospitals over there instead.

Depends what you want really.

West Suffolk hospital covers a fair amount of the county.There are very few facilities here. No NHS dentist for example that has lead me continuing to return to Kent for treatment.The county has seen large amounts of house building in recent year's.
Colchester in Essex would have to deal with most if Southern Suffolk. While the extra building is clearly welcomed it is a drop in the ocean.
I have found GPs experience good up here but the chances of getting the hip operation I need almost zero.Then only just going on the list a few weeks ago after 3 years of constant pain.

 

[Therealwaldo]

Easy solution. If what you say is true, I look forward to seeing the policy of rejoining the EU (at all cost, of course) in the Labour and Liberal Democrat manifestos. Even the Tory one, possibly if they believe the tide of public opinion has changed as much as you think, as well. What's stopping them?

Meanwhile whiny old farts like you can choose to ignore Covid, Ukraine, German and general EU wide economic stagnation, Tory incompetence and greed, and and all other world events which couldn't possibly adversely affect those public finances. It's that Brexit, Gladys, that did it.

You can choose to be positive and live in the present, or just keep finding any ill or shortcomings (which always exist) to be the fault of Brexit. Real spirit of the Blitz. Yah !!

No party wants a rerun of the Brexit referendum in a general election run up. However, I think quite a lot of change will happen thereafter. That’s because it’s economically inevitable. The current situation is unsustainable. Even the so called tiger economies trade the most with their nearest neighbours. They’d laugh at you if you suggested they should have trade barriers with those neighbours whilst trying to increase trade with the other side of the world. What things are you positive about ? State of the NHS ? Cost and reliability of public transport ? Accessibility of local authority services ? State of the roads ? Pub and restaurant closures ? Crime clear up rates ? State of our rivers and seas ? State of our high streets ? Which of these has Brexit made better ?