Oh Dear Oh Dear Oh Dear | Page 7 | Vital Football

Oh Dear Oh Dear Oh Dear

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baggie192 said:
La Tissier was the only one who came to mind. I say this last thing about the Cowleys. As I don't want to be thought as a troll. I'm more invested Michael Appleton anyway who I've met a couple of times years ago. I'll pop back to wish you a merry Christmas and if he loans our players talk about them.
Why I didn't want the Cowleys at West Brom, It going to sound super weird. They only knew success. You benefitted from it and more power to you. But you only really learn from loss. By that I mean relegation. They never had to deal with it. You are a soaring success. I think you'll stay in league 1 for a couple of seasons, but, Appleton will get up as the club changes to his style. Appleton, Tony Mowbray and countless. others bought into our DoF at the time Dan Ashworth's plan. Gary Megson got us back to back promotion to the prem. Thing was the team just could not compete. This was the era of Man Utd at their height and Arsenal's Invincibles. Plan worked like this. use the money to improve the squad with really good Championship players. Then pick 1 area of the club to improve. Then go for promotion again, rinse and repeat. With Megson's it took us 4 promotions to become a sustainable Prem club. We had 8 seasons, some were more comfortale than others. All stuck to the system. Then came Pulis seen by our last owner as a safe pair of hands, while our sale went through Should have been at the club six months. He was sadly there way longer. He destroyed everything, Scouting, the academy. He had a budget close to £75m much much bigger than any other Head coach or manager. and he squandered on rubbish or they'd fall out of favour and we'd never see them again. He sold Kemar Roofe to Appleton at Oxford for a £1. Luckily our lawyers put in a 60% sell-on clause. He loaned Serge Gnabry and never played him because "He didn't have a football brain", Please step forward Serge Gnabry Beyern's current player of the year. When Pulis came he had one demand "total Control" he was given it by an owner with a foot out the door. It was rare that our DoF would vito a player anyway. That's what the Cowleys wanted from us "Total Control". I don't know your Infrastructure Do you have an international scout? I'm thinking not. The Sad truth is the higher you get the more expensive Home-Grown Talent is. Talent from aboard can be good value. They can't however be scouted by dvd. I doubt we were serious after we heard that demand. It is almost impossible to everything at this level, They've bought their own hype. The right back could have stopped us on the bench, but, he didn't impress during training so stayed there. Afterwards DC threw shade at some of his players. Unlike Lincoln's squad they weren't there for the ride. they will have to buy in. Slagging them off when your tactic is to defend a 2-1 lead which the higher you get gets nearly impossible isn't the best way I can think of. Anyway this is turning into a magnum opus and picking at open wounds that should be healing its exciting times ahead. Hope you loan Tulloch he needs the game time and should bang a couple in
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In theory, when you are earning the kind of money Prem players earn then money should become less of a factor. If you are already rich then you are just choosing to be richer. Of course it doesn't seem to work like that.

Think of wages as proportionally to a very nice £250k detached house. The closer to a normal wage you are earning then of course money is more of a lure.

If you are earning "a quarter of a house" a year (as teachers) then of course earning "half a house a year" (at Lincoln) is quite a pull.

When you are earning "half a house a year" (at Lincoln) then earning "3 houses" a year (Huddersfield) is a massive pull.

When Prem players are earning already "10 houses a year" or more, then it should in reality be much more of a sensible decision but as we see they will still jump if "20 houses" are offered.

I think most of us would quite happily jump at the chance to improve our earnings and pay the mortgage off in a single year..........which is effectively what they have done. Nothing to do with the "kerching, shiny, shiny, spend, spend, spend" that has been suggested. Quite simply for where they were and where they are now, they have in one step made a life changing decision for them and their families and are now set for life.
 
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GreenNeedle said:
In theory, when you are earning the kind of money Prem players earn then money should become less of a factor. If you are already rich then you are just choosing to be richer. Of course it doesn't seem to work like that.

Think of wages as proportionally to a very nice £250k detached house. The closer to a normal wage you are earning then of course money is more of a lure.

If you are earning "a quarter of a house" a year (as teachers) then of course earning "half a house a year" (at Lincoln) is quite a pull.

When you are earning "half a house a year" (at Lincoln) then earning "3 houses" a year (Huddersfield) is a massive pull.

When Prem players are earning already "10 houses a year" or more, then it should in reality be much more of a sensible decision but as we see they will still jump if "20 houses" are offered.

I think most of us would quite happily jump at the chance to improve our earnings and pay the mortgage of in a single year..........which is effectively what they have done. Nothing to do with the "kerching, shiny, shiny, spend, spend, spend" that has been suggested. Quite simply for where they were and where they are now, they have in one step made a life changing decision for them and their families and are now set for life.
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*Sarcasm chip engaged*

Being set for life is overrated.
 
Huntsward said:
It mentions £250,000 for Akinde. Has this been published previously? There were a few figures bandied around but I've missed it if it has.

It could be speculative but they've got a figure from somewhere and given such an in depth interview with Clive, maybe it holds some weight.
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nah, they just got the figure wrong.
 
monkeyg said:
Steve Bull maybe? He spent more or less his whole career in the old second division and would have had offers from top clubs I'm sure. I can't think of any obvious examples from lower levels though.
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I think expectations for players are slightly different - fans of small clubs on the whole are sad to see them go but realise the compensation is probably good. Backlashes usually only come if they move to a rival, or they throw a strop to get their way.

With managers, they're the patriarch rather than one of the kids. They set the vision, they shape the club, they mould the team, they are the head of the family. To leave is to walk out on that family.

By the way, Danny Cowley is our first £1m transfer.
 
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It's possible, but it seems quite high. The article also claims we haven't played at this level for over 30 years and the Cathedral is 700 years old so i'm not treating it as gospel!
 
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NottyImp said:
I certainly think it's the case that if DC/NC want to manage any higher they will have to relinquish the level of control they have been used to. But fair play to them for holding out for that control at Huddersfield and eventually getting it. I doubt it will work with many other Championship (and no Premiership) teams.
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I don't think it is as simple as they wanted "total control." The days of Brian Clough signing players and telling his chairman to pay them what he agreed are well and truly gone.

Much more likely is that they wanted control over their transfer targets and the footballing infrastructure rather than the actual financials. It is then up to the chairman to either get the deal done or let them know that they can't have the player because they are above the budget.

Much more likely is that they many clubs seem to want to go the continental route where the "head coach" coaches the players that DoF / transfer committee decide to buy and Cowley insisted he didn't want players foisted on him.
 
clanfordimp said:
I agree they definitely wont get full control the higher they go, if that's what happens, but any manager at whatever level has to have an input into the players they want to bring in. It would be crazy to have a Sporting Director or whatever they are called, who identifies players, signs them, then just hands them over to the manager and says see what you can do with him. I would say at the top level the manager/head coach identifies players he would like to sign and then it's up to the Sporting Director to negotiate with the players club / agent regarding the possible transfer.
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You say it is crazy but that is most definitely what happens. At most top clubs a transfer committee selects the targets and buys the players. At some the manager is on that committee. Pochettino has gone to lengths to state that he is "head coach" and not "manager."

Mourinho didn't want Paul Pogba. That was Man United's transfer committee's decision.

At Southampton their "black box" monitors and identifies targets (including managers) and then it goes to their committee. AFAIK the manager is on that committee but it isn't a casting vote. It is very much a case at many of the biggest clubs that the coach is handed the players and told to get them playing well.

Gone are the days of Harry Redknapp's scattergun approach, bringing in 20 players and hoping 2 or 3 work out, leaving a mess behind everywhere he went.

The game has moved on a lot from the old days, especially at the top end where they are determined to get a decent Chinese player, even if there are better options elsewhere purely because of the financial value of having that Chinese player playing for them.

The first team to land a Chinese star that is good enough to get regular games will make a fortune in Shirt Sales and other monetary gains.
 
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GreenNeedle said:
I think most of us would quite happily jump at the chance to improve our earnings and pay the mortgage of in a single year..........which is effectively what they have done. Nothing to do with the "kerching, shiny, shiny, spend, spend, spend" that has been suggested. Quite simply for where they were and where they are now, they have in one step made a life changing decision for them and their families and are now set for life.
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Of course, absolutely, I've said that about this myself a dozen times on here. Couldn't agree more.

That wasn't the reason given, though. The reason given was "We want to test ourselves "

That's after saying in May "My ambition and my aim for this football club is not just to create a moment in time for people to look back on and say weren’t they fantastic years in the history of Lincoln City, I want this period to be a period where we change the status of the club forever.”

So this is merely a quibble, because we all agree that was the perfect opportunity to make a lot more money, but it's been done at the cost of being completely honest about it, because that was not the thing a PR guru would say.

I'm therefore going to find it cathartic to mention a couple of things about the Cowley way that could not be aired when he was the manager because to do so would have been considered disloyal, if not sacreligious, and those are the occasional lapse into David Brent-esque management speak which always sounded faintly ridiculous to me, the touchline persona - every opponent we came up against didn't just find it annoying because we were winning, and the worst example, the time-out goalkeeper injury.

That last one is particularly bad. In what could have been his last interview as LCFC manager, on Quest, he expressed concern for the Wycombe player taken to hospital and criticised the referee for not stopping play. For 3 years he'd been deliberately hoodwinking referees with fake injuries. What's more, the referees knew they were being hoodwinked. Then managers (not just him of course) have the nerve to criticise referees for not stopping play for genuine injuries.

Nevertheless he's taken the club to a place nobody thought it would be in double quick time, with some amazing memories, for a long-suffering fanbase (not me, naturally), and tripled the crowds. Incredible achievements and if anyone seriously wants him to fail now then I reckon they have a serious personality defect.
 
SIMJON said:
It's possible, but it seems quite high. The article also claims we haven't played at this level for over 30 years and the Cathedral is 700 years old so i'm not treating it as gospel!
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article doesn't mention compensation - it was conducted before they left.
 
Brendan Bradley said:
Of course, absolutely, I've said that about this myself a dozen times on here. Couldn't agree more.

That wasn't the reason given, though. The reason given was "We want to test ourselves "

That's after saying in May "My ambition and my aim for this football club is not just to create a moment in time for people to look back on and say weren’t they fantastic years in the history of Lincoln City, I want this period to be a period where we change the status of the club forever.”

So this is merely a quibble, because we all agree that was the perfect opportunity to make a lot more money, but it's been done at the cost of being completely honest about it, because that was not the thing a PR guru would say.

I'm therefore going to find it cathartic to mention a couple of things about the Cowley way that could not be aired when he was the manager because to do so would have been considered disloyal, if not sacreligious, and those are the occasional lapse into David Brent-esque management speak which always sounded faintly ridiculous to me, the touchline persona - every opponent we came up against didn't just find it annoying because we were winning, and the worst example, the time-out goalkeeper injury.

That last one is particularly bad. In what could have been his last interview as LCFC manager, on Quest, he expressed concern for the Wycombe player taken to hospital and criticised the referee for not stopping play. For 3 years he'd been deliberately hoodwinking referees with fake injuries. What's more, the referees knew they were being hoodwinked. Then managers (not just him of course) have the nerve to criticise referees for not stopping play for genuine injuries.

Nevertheless he's taken the club to a place nobody thought it would be in double quick time, with some amazing memories, for a long-suffering fanbase (not me, naturally), and tripled the crowds. Incredible achievements and if anyone seriously wants him to fail now then I reckon they have a serious personality defect.
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The goalkeeper 'injury' thing never sat easy with me, either. I used to think it was a ridiculous tactic and two or three times it seemed to backfire. Wasn't one of those against Oldham in the FA Cup, when they scored not long after Farman had to 'have treatment'?

He liked using the word 'clarity' which I often hadn't heard managers use... now every bugger in sport seems to use it!
 
GreenNeedle said:
You say it is crazy but that is most definitely what happens. At most top clubs a transfer committee selects the targets and buys the players. At some the manager is on that committee. Pochettino has gone to lengths to state that he is "head coach" and not "manager."

Mourinho didn't want Paul Pogba. That was Man United's transfer committee's decision.

At Southampton their "black box" monitors and identifies targets (including managers) and then it goes to their committee. AFAIK the manager is on that committee but it isn't a casting vote. It is very much a case at many of the biggest clubs that the coach is handed the players and told to get them playing well.

Gone are the days of Harry Redknapp's scattergun approach, bringing in 20 players and hoping 2 or 3 work out, leaving a mess behind everywhere he went.

The game has moved on a lot from the old days, especially at the top end where they are determined to get a decent Chinese player, even if there are better options elsewhere purely because of the financial value of having that Chinese player playing for them.

The first team to land a Chinese star that is good enough to get regular games will make a fortune in Shirt Sales and other monetary gains.
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Bilic is on ours. In fact it was Luke Dowling talked him into becoming head coach. If he wants a player We'll bust a gut to sign them. you are wrong about the days of Redknapp. Tony Pulis ruined our club. It's getting fixed but did DAMAGE.
 
baggie192 said:
Bilic is on ours. In fact it was Luke Dowling talked him into becoming head coach. If he wants a player We'll bust a gut to sign them. you are wrong about the days of Redknapp. Tony Pulis ruined our club. It's getting fixed but did DAMAGE.
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There were a succession of odd appointments though weren't there? Alan Irvine, Pepe Mel (who I personally like but he was really out of left field),culminating in Alan Pardew.

I want to give your club's fans credit though for helping run Pulis-ball out of town so much quicker than anyone else. At WBA it's obvious that fans have standards even if those are temporarily compromised by results. Sure, he kept you up a season but I think that's what clever people call a Phyrric victory.
 
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