NEW THREAD FOR ALL THINGS TAKEOVER | Page 378 | Vital Football

NEW THREAD FOR ALL THINGS TAKEOVER

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TRUE BELIEVER said:
Do have a copy of the minutes from the creditors meeting, and does this set out the fees being charged for their services?
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This was the text which sent everyone nuts (their fee estimate was about 1.4m with time estimate of 1m and hourly rate approaching 350) I believe). They've said that it wont be charged at it was an estimate, but since the initial update nothing else has been said via the official channels.
 
SwindonLatic said:
Would love to see a break down of how much they have spent on Communications throughout this whole process
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I would love to see full disclosure of incomings and outgoings since they rocked up, a reducing debt balance, itemised fees by day and a breakdown of current operating costs.
We'll both be disappointed as if they did this the scenes would be unbelievable.
Got away with murder these lot and will never be called to "account" for it - A to Z tragic for our club
 
SwindonLatic said:
Would love to see a break down of how much they have spent on Communications throughout this whole process
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Based on leaked documents on twitter (someone leaked parts of the official admin docs).

I believe (based on above) as of 10th August they'd paid out around 10k on appeal PR and 2k on Sugar PR. In my opinion Anticipated costs were to be around 15k.

For the fees we had a few in person interviews, a few posts on the website, a zoom call (or two?) and not much else.
 
Wlatic said:
Based on leaked documents on twitter (someone leaked parts of the official admin docs).

I believe (based on above) as of 10th August they'd paid out around 10k on appeal PR and 2k on Sugar PR. In my opinion Anticipated costs were to be around 15k.

For the fees we had a few in person interviews, a few posts on the website, a zoom call (or two?) and not much else.
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It’s a licence to print money. You can bet their PR firm also charged for every phone call they took from the media and for every interview they arranged. I hope the admins haven’t added media appearances to their invoice sheet because they are being paid to sell the club and every bit of publicity they do only helps them with that job (terrible interviews with Channel 4 apart 😅)
 
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Arthur_Itis said:
Totally agree - unless that "reaching" ultimately bankrupts the club.
Whelan wrote off all the debts he'd incurred before walking away, if these guys do the same, or never saddle us in the first place I'll be a happy man. Like I said, it's not the ambitions that worries me, it's the potential cost of not achieving those ambitions.
Plus I'm getting this out there early so in 5 years Jocklatic can't stick me in the hindsight brigade again.
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:cheers:....I'm just hoping we still have a club to support in 5 years time Arthur....& if we're playing European football even better :utv:
 
Admin might as well charged the club 15k for a set of solar powered torches and chocolate fireguards - it would've been a better return on investment than they got for PR and Comms.

They said something like they didn't want to use the clubs in house team because their team was more suited to the situation. The clubs in house team would've done a miles better job and saved us some money in the process. They certainly couldn't have done much worse.
 
walgarthjohn said:
Some one posted. Before. We all laughed at Dave Whelan saying he would take us to promised land. Yes we did. But in them days. There was no wage cap most of the signings were record signings. For us. So any one thinking we’re are on the up again if this frampton chap gets us is dreaming. Lenagan will be more than happy. Having a rugby fan buying us
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So......... let's look at this then John. You're right, there's a salary cap for all teams in League 1. However, we're (almost certainly) well under this, given the players we've released in the last few months, and the number of youngsters in the squad. So...... we're probably ahead of most other teams here.

Next, we have had some great youngsters come through the academy recently ...... and some remain with us. In addition, it looks like there are more on the assembly line for the future. So, if we need an edge to differentiate us from other teams in the division, we're quite handily placed here too.

Finally, , our set-up isn't a bad one for this division. Yes, of course there may be better, but as a place to attract decent players (like Tendayi Darikwa), we have a reasonable chance.

Sorry mate ................. I just prefer not to wallow in the depths of despair, thinking the worst will happen, and expecting it all to go tits up before it's even started.

All this said, if next season, we're going to Barrow, Morecambe and Harrogate, then happy days.

Just my opinion. (y)
 
Arthur_Itis said:
The main alarm bells for me regarding the Frampton bid are what happens to little Wigan when the expectations of the owners / investors are not achieved within say 3 or 4 years. Will they do a Choi and **** off again licking their wounds ? will they put loads of debt onto the club whilst trying to achieve these lofty ambitions ?
I'm not against them in any way, we desperately need a savior and I'll welcome them with open arms, but I'll definitely harbour some concerns for the medium to long term future.

Beginning of something special or a temporary stay of execution ?
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Frampton was asked by Jay whittle about what happens when losses are incurred.He said he fully expects losses,especially in the early stages,as there will be a lot of initial investment.He categorically stated that NO debt will be put on the club when this happens.
Additionally his group see us as a long term project. I think that snake Choi was naive,he thought he could spend some money and we'd get instant success,this group see us as a much longer term project,which is great to hear.

I don't like comparing anyone to Whelan as he was an unbelievable,incredible owner but just like Frampton,he was laughed at when he revealed his seemingly unrealistic plans.It's easy to talk a good game though,but there's nothing wrong with ambition.As long as you have the money,plan,drive and dedication to try and achieve it.All you can do is then give it your best shot.
If they have their bid accepted and put down a deposit,which I hope now happens as their obviously interested,i really will then take them even more seriously than I do now and they will have my full support!
 
Arthur_Itis said:
The main alarm bells for me regarding the Frampton bid are what happens to little Wigan when the expectations of the owners / investors are not achieved within say 3 or 4 years. Will they do a Choi and **** off again licking their wounds ? will they put loads of debt onto the club whilst trying to achieve these lofty ambitions ?
I'm not against them in any way, we desperately need a savior and I'll welcome them with open arms, but I'll definitely harbour some concerns for the medium to long term future.

Beginning of something special or a temporary stay of execution ?
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You are right to be sceptical. I said throughout the Spanish fiasco that we would be naive to blindly trust them, not ask questions and read between the lines. So we should be consistent and apply that same level of scrutiny to Frampton or any other bidder.

Frampton has said some pretty outlandish things that should raises questions and could set alarm bells going. But listening to his Jay Whittle interview the most unrealistic bits about expanding the stadium and sliding roof etc got a lot of attention. But the thing that maybe got missed that I found interesting was he seemed to understand the level of financial investment will be heavy, annual losses will be unavoidable for the first years and that it will be a long term project before they get any ROI. Compare that to the Spanish who seemed to expect to make annual profits with minor investment immediately and Choi who thought promotion to the Prem could be achieved virtually over night and never had the funds to sustain annual loses for long. In that regard Frampton seemed to have a better grasp of our starting position and the cost of his ambitions - which is vital and it didn't appear his potential predecessors had.

Of course talk is cheap; he may not even put a deposit down, if he does there is no guarantee the deal goes through (as the Spanish proved) or he may get us and he doesn't do anything he said. But those are the same risks with any bidder, but at least it appears Frampton's backers have anticipated the the inevitable initial loses and has the money to fund it if they choose. He also is local and has an affinity for the club. So in theory he is probably lower risk than most bidders if he ends up following through and buying us.

If a bid is accepted at some point i think the best barometer we have is to see what Nandy, the SC, the Council, Jackson and EFL have to say about - as their reaction will be telling as it was with the Spanish. They will know a lot more than us and will be even more sceptical, so if he can convince them to endorse his bid I think it would be a very promising sign. Time will tell.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
You are right to be sceptical. I said throughout the Spanish fiasco that we would be naive to blindly trust them, not ask questions and read between the lines. So we should be consistent and apply that same level of scrutiny to Frampton or any other bidder.

Frampton has said some pretty outlandish things that should raises questions and could set alarm bells going. But listening to his Jay Whittle interview the most unrealistic bits about expanding the stadium and sliding roof etc got a lot of attention. But the thing that maybe got missed that I found interesting was he seemed to understand the level of financial investment will be heavy, annual losses will be unavoidable for the first years and that it will be a long term project before they get any ROI. Compare that to the Spanish who seemed to expect to make annual profits with minor investment immediately and Choi who thought promotion to the Prem could be achieved virtually over night and never had the funds to sustain annual loses for long. In that regard Frampton seemed to have a better grasp of our starting position and the cost of his ambitions - which is vital and it didn't appear his potential predecessors had.

Of course talk is cheap; he may not even put a deposit down, if he does there is no guarantee the deal goes through (as the Spanish proved) or he may get us and he doesn't do anything he said. But those are the same risks with any bidder, but at least it appears Frampton's backers have anticipated the the inevitable initial loses and has the money to fund it if they choose. He also is local and has an affinity for the club. So in theory he is probably lower risk than most bidders if he ends up following through and buying us.

If a bid is accepted at some point i think the best barometer we have is to see what Nandy, the SC, the Council, Jackson and EFL have to say about - as their reaction will be telling as it was with the Spanish. They will know a lot more than us and will be even more sceptical, so if he can convince them to endorse his bid I think it would be a very promising sign. Time will tell.
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Best barometer is what the EFL do, no one else matters one bit.

Nandy will do what ever is good for her career in politics.
Council only care about the money they can get out / ensuring lodgers future.
SC seemingly will wait for the bidders to offer them something (rather than putting public what they'd [very sad that after nearly 6 months its still "they" rather than "we"] like).
Jackson will do what he can to remain in a job.
 
moonay said:
So......... let's look at this then John. You're right, there's a salary cap for all teams in League 1. However, we're (almost certainly) well under this, given the players we've released in the last few months, and the number of youngsters in the squad. So...... we're probably ahead of most other teams here.

Next, we have had some great youngsters come through the academy recently ...... and some remain with us. In addition, it looks like there are more on the assembly line for the future. So, if we need an edge to differentiate us from other teams in the division, we're quite handily placed here too.

Finally, , our set-up isn't a bad one for this division. Yes, of course there may be better, but as a place to attract decent players (like Tendayi Darikwa), we have a reasonable chance.

Sorry mate ................. I just prefer not to wallow in the depths of despair, thinking the worst will happen, and expecting it all to go tits up before it's even started.

All this said, if next season, we're going to Barrow, Morecambe and Harrogate, then happy days.

Just my opinion. (y)
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To add to that...the wage cap obviously means we can't do what we did in our last 2 promotion seasons and out spend everyone so heavily on wages. But I looked into it and i don't believe the 2.5m wage cap includes manager and staff costs, transfer and loan fees and can't stop you informally promising to reward players with improved terms the following year if they get promotion. So if an owner at this level had ambition and funds they want to spend I think they can still leverage that as long as their player wage bill, agent fees, player bonuses, image rights, signing bonus, taxes stick within the limit. If I'm wrong someone please correct me but that was my understanding based on what I read on the EFL site.

The other thing is the players who can't get a Championship club will still be moving to L1. But instead of them moving to the side offering the most money it will probably be more about the clubs with the most ambition or pedigree and if we weren't destroyed by Admin we'd be one of the more attractive clubs at this level.

If we're were fortunate enough to get a owner willing to invest i think they would still be able to gain advantage despite the cap.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
To add to that...the wage cap obviously means we can't do what we did in our last 2 promotion seasons and out spend everyone so heavily on wages. But I looked into it and i don't believe the 2.5m wage cap includes manager and staff costs, transfer and loan fees and can't stop you informally promising to reward players with improved terms the following year if they get promotion. So if an owner at this level had ambition and funds they want to spend I think they can still leverage that as long as their player wage bill, agent fees, player bonuses, image rights, signing bonus, taxes stick within the limit. If I'm wrong someone please correct me but that was my understanding based on what I read on the EFL site.

The other thing is the players who can't get a Championship club will still be moving to L1. But instead of them moving to the side offering the most money it will probably be more about the clubs with the most ambition or pedigree and if we weren't destroyed by Admin we'd be one of the more attractive clubs at this level.

If we're were fortunate enough to get a owner willing to invest i think they would still be able to gain advantage despite the cap.
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Or you could bring in any number of well paid "player coaches" to avoid breaking the cap as they don't count - a la Derby with Rooney 😉
 
Wlatic said:
Best barometer is what the EFL do, no one else matters one bit.

Nandy will do what ever is good for her career in politics.
Council only care about the money they can get out / ensuring lodgers future.
SC seemingly will wait for the bidders to offer them something (rather than putting public what they'd [very sad that after nearly 6 months its still "they" rather than "we"] like).
Jackson will do what he can to remain in a job.
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Never a good word for anyone have you?
Serial moaner or what
How about trying to be a little less combative and a bit more respectful to people who know a lot more than you do about certain things and who are actually in a position and trying to do something positive.
 
Hampton said:
Or you could bring in any number of well paid "player coaches" to avoid breaking the cap as they don't count - a la Derby with Rooney 😉
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We could also employ the players wives/girlfriends on massive wages in the shop/office etc like WRLFC allegedly did/do to get around their salary cap!!!
 
Wlatic said:
Best barometer is what the EFL do, no one else matters one bit.

Nandy will do what ever is good for her career in politics.
Council only care about the money they can get out / ensuring lodgers future.
SC seemingly will wait for the bidders to offer them something (rather than putting public what they'd [very sad that after nearly 6 months its still "they" rather than "we"] like).
Jackson will do what he can to remain in a job.
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All parties interests largely align - what is good for the club is good for them. What is bad for the club is bad for them.

Nandy wants to play a part in finding a good owner to win votes. Endorsing a bad owner will reflect badly on her and costs her votes.

The council want a good owner so their local football team is stable so it can continue to pay business rates, attract tourism, raise profile of the town and generally good moral for the town. Getting a bad owner for them means less money. Council also has Latics fans on it.

SC are as hardcore fans as you get, who want the best for the club - ideally including giving us a voice on the board to help reduce chance of this happening again. They certainly won't endorse a bad owner or giving away the money raised to someone dodgy.

Jackson has already lost his job and he must know he's not going to get it back. He's born and bread a Latics fan and he wants to play his part in saving us and getting some personal redemption and closure I imagine.

EFL already got blamed for killing Macclesfield, Bury, nearly Bolton and nearly us by not sufficiently vetting the last owner. Passing a bad owner that does more harm would be a PR nightmare they will want to avoid.

No one benefits from endorsing a bad owner and risking ending up back here or worse soon - the idea any of them would personally gain from doing so is not realistic. Which is why they wouldnt back the Spanish. Many accused them of all sorts for not doing so but their decision has since been vindicated as the Spanish turned out to be useless. Thank God they did as if they were all blindly pushing the Spanish and willing to hand over the SC fundraiser cash, the EFL might have been pressured into sanctioning the deal earlier and we may have ended up in a worse position.
 
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