New Proposals | Page 3 | Vital Football

New Proposals

jokerman

Vital 1st Team Regular
#41
Trouble is, it's not just a Big 6, but all those others right down to the Sheffield Wednesdays and Sunderlands who think they belong up there and, of course, Leeds are making a fair case for the claim that getting back is not necessarily a futile dream.
 

Trashbat

Vital Squad Member
#43
Its worth noting that L1 and L2 clubs only require £90m of that. The championship clubs account for a further £160m. While their owners are collectively worth over a hundred billion.
Interesting. Where did you get the £160m/£90m split?

Seems like the most sensible (albeit still crude) way to distribute £250m would be proportionally on lost gate receipts. If that is the case, it would be closer to 50:50 split for Champ:L1L2.

That said, I’d be pretty pissed off if I were an owner of a Prem team seeing the cash being used to prop up the likes of Southend / Wigan / host of Championship clubs who consistently run at a loss. The purpose of the cash is to compensate for the impact of COVID.
 

shotshy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#44
Interesting. Where did you get the £160m/£90m split?

Seems like the most sensible (albeit still crude) way to distribute £250m would be proportionally on lost gate receipts. If that is the case, it would be closer to 50:50 split for Champ:L1L2.

That said, I’d be pretty pissed off if I were an owner of a Prem team seeing the cash being used to prop up the likes of Southend / Wigan / host of Championship clubs who consistently run at a loss. The purpose of the cash is to compensate for the impact of COVID.
Most of the premier clubs constantly run at a loss as well.
Very few have a genuine working profit.
 

Captainreblue

Vital Squad Member
#45
Unless the chairman/ owners who are crying out for help/handouts change the way they run their businesses the £250m will just go into a big black hole. This financial issue in the EFL has not been caused by COVID, its just brought it to the fore.

How many clubs have had financial worries over the last however many years. Until chairman and owners take a responsible view of running their clubs this issue will keep happening. Just look at the combined losses of the Championship clubs last season, that is unstainable with or without £250m hand out.
 

LockdownLife

Vital Reserves Team
#46
Unless the chairman/ owners who are crying out for help/handouts change the way they run their businesses the £250m will just go into a big black hole. This financial issue in the EFL has not been caused by COVID, its just brought it to the fore.

How many clubs have had financial worries over the last however many years. Until chairman and owners take a responsible view of running their clubs this issue will keep happening. Just look at the combined losses of the Championship clubs last season, that is unstainable with or without £250m hand out.
This is also true.

It's crazy that people like Scally are the outliers and not the norm. It's also a shame that people like Scally get moaned at from some quarters (I do believe a minority) because he doesn't put money into the club. In my opinion this wouldn't happen if loads of clubs didn't have owners bankrolling.

Spend what you earn is the way forward. But you have to ignore a lot of fans' (league-wide) unrealistic expectations.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#47
No they weren't.

They were introduced to allow teams that get newly promoted to actually compete on a more level playing field with clubs already established in the premier league. If you do not have parachute payments, then it makes signing prem level players on prem wages very hard for newly promoted clubs. They do not have any level of certainty of lasting in the prem league for more than 1 season, so it's incredibly risky to offer any sort of long term contract for any player if you're just coming up. All that means is that the teams coming up simply wont even have a chance of signing the decent prem level players needed to compete with the other prem clubs, as the players in question will rightly choose to go to already established clubs who are able to offer much more secure/long term contracts.

If you dont have parachute payments, then you might as well just close off promotion to the premiership, as teams getting promoted will just all get relegated the subsequent season (more so than happens already).
Parachutes don't go up. Parachute payments stop if a club is promoted back to the Premiership before expiry.

I don't care about the motives of big clubs. I do think we are close to the edge.
 

alphabet_king

Vital 1st Team Regular
#49
Parachutes don't go up. Parachute payments stop if a club is promoted back to the Premiership before expiry.

I don't care about the motives of big clubs. I do think we are close to the edge.
I have absolutely no idea of the relevance of your comment in reply to mine. I maybe dont understand what youve said. Could you humor me and explain?
 

markinkent

Vital 1st Team Regular
#50
This is also true.

It's crazy that people like Scally are the outliers and not the norm. It's also a shame that people like Scally get moaned at from some quarters (I do believe a minority) because he doesn't put money into the club. In my opinion this wouldn't happen if loads of clubs didn't have owners bankrolling.

Spend what you earn is the way forward. But you have to ignore a lot of fans' (league-wide) unrealistic expectations.

Scally is such a conundrum. There are things he has does so very well. He has kept us sort of solvent and the majority of clubs cant say that. He has a decent sense of humour and he does love the club as much as we do, of that I am sure.

If only he could develop a bit of customer affinity and PR skills he would be a very good chairmen.
 

alphabet_king

Vital 1st Team Regular
#51
Interesting. Where did you get the £160m/£90m split?
Unfortunately i cant remember where I saw this, but i read it in the same article as that which did a run down of the wealth of all the championship owners. Those figures make it very hard to justify giving championship clubs any money at all TBH.

It can only have come from a limited few sports websites - as I dont read many. It must have been either BBC, Daily Mail (a quote not just taking the reporters words for facts) or either the GIlls FB group or this site itself.

I'd imagine that probably is the shortfall of attendance income to be honest. Championship clubs have much much higher attendances overall than the L1 and L2.
 
Last edited:

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#52
I have absolutely no idea of the relevance of your comment in reply to mine. I maybe dont understand what youve said. Could you humor me and explain?
I wasn't looking for a dispute but you said parachute parents were not designed to help relegated clubs. They were and they are. I was trying to indicate that I didn't disagree with your view of the motives of the big clubs. I just think we have no cards at all
 

alphabet_king

Vital 1st Team Regular
#55
I wasn't looking for a dispute but you said parachute parents were not designed to help relegated clubs.
I said nothing of the sort. What i did say that they were not designed specifically to help relegated clubs get back into the greedy league (to quote yourself). I fully accept (and thought my post made it clear) i accept they were there to help relegated clubs. Or more specifically i feel it should be looked at quite differently. I believe the motivations are more driven by enabling teams coming up, and teams battling relegation at the bottom of the prem league to compete on slightly more even playing field with other prem clubs. A competitive EPL right down to the relegation zones is of great benefit to the saleability of the EPL to TV companies.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#56
I said nothing of the sort. What i did say that they were not designed specifically to help relegated clubs get back into the greedy league (to quote yourself). I fully accept (and thought my post made it clear) i accept they were there to help relegated clubs. Or more specifically i feel it should be looked at quite differently. I believe the motivations are more driven by enabling teams coming up, and teams battling relegation at the bottom of the prem league to compete on slightly more even playing field with other prem clubs. A competitive EPL right down to the relegation zones is of great benefit to the saleability of the EPL to TV companies.
I said nothing of the sort. What i did say that they were not designed specifically to help relegated clubs get back into the greedy league (to quote yourself). I fully accept (and thought my post made it clear) i accept they were there to help relegated clubs. Or more specifically i feel it should be looked at quite differently. I believe the motivations are more driven by enabling teams coming up, and teams battling relegation at the bottom of the prem league to compete on slightly more even playing field with other prem clubs. A competitive EPL right down to the relegation zones is of great benefit to the saleability of the EPL to TV companies.
OK some misunderstanding so sorry.I do think they were designed to help clubs back into the greedy league and they needed to do that to get enough on board. If you are relegated from the Prem you get 3 years of parachute payments but get promoted back in the first year the payments stop. The real reward is the TV money.

I agree with your general observations.
 

OneSirKeefy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#57
The D3D4 guys did a good podcast about the proposals.

If what they were saying is true, then it appears the proposal is very, very good for nearly all L1 and L2 clubs, decent for half the Championship, but no good for the other teams in the Prem outside the top 9 long servers (and those bigger Championship clubs with aspirations to reach there).

Teams like us that basically have little chance or interest in getting to the top of the Premier league, may as well agree to it.

Just needs to have some strong guarantees that the rules don’t change and the proposals of how the ££ are split up are kept in concrete once the top 9 hold all the power.

Well worth having a listen to the podcast and the things said.
 

Tarian

Vital Squad Member
#58
I agree, but with these proposals of 25% of income coming to the EFL, when the so called big boys feck off to the European League, the PL will effectively cease to exist and therefore they'll be no 25% available from that point on.

Ok, we'll at least manage to survive for now, but the long term future of accepting this deal is having funding cut off.

Personally, I think the FA should remove their affiliation to the PL, effectively forcing them into a European League or Super League, (but who would oversee them, UEFA?), bin the Championship name and go back to Divisions 1 to 4.

Basically feck 'em all and let's get back to what football should be, for the fans of proper football not nancys rolling around the floor all the time.
BSS - I think you are onto something.
i.e. 25% of not very much is not very much - if the Six begger off.

And if they succeed, they will destroy all the European pyramids - and competition and opportunity for medium-sized towns everywhere.

US-style, top-down licensed franchises are an abomination to competitive sport.
Monopolies rarely benefit the customer / fan.
 

Trashbat

Vital Squad Member
#60
Unfortunately i cant remember where I saw this, but i read it in the same article as that which did a run down of the wealth of all the championship owners. Those figures make it very hard to justify giving championship clubs any money at all TBH.

It can only have come from a limited few sports websites - as I dont read many. It must have been either BBC, Daily Mail (a quote not just taking the reporters words for facts) or either the GIlls FB group or this site itself.

I'd imagine that probably is the shortfall of attendance income to be honest. Championship clubs have much much higher attendances overall than the L1 and L2.
Thanks.

My roughy calcs from y’day show average attendances as:

CHAMP: 15k
L1: 8k
L2: 5k

That is why I would expect that the split would be more like 50% for Championship. I know my assumptions are crude - particularly that average ticket prices in Championship are the same as L2.