Match Thread - Tottenham Hotspur vs West Bromwich Albion- PL | Page 11 | Vital Football

Match Thread - Tottenham Hotspur vs West Bromwich Albion- PL

Result?

  • Win

    Votes: 8 57.1%

  • Lose

    Votes: 3 21.4%

  • Draw

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .
A very welcome win indeed and what I felt was more an illustration of how well we can attack if the right players are on the pitch in the right positions.

Its too early to see this as a turning point though. We play two very good teams this week and they will give us a clearer idea of what Jose has actually adapted, if anything. WBA still managed to expose us and Jose still has no clue how to balance our team. We either leave our defence exposed and score goals or we get nowhere near to scoring and try to park a bus.

I still maintain that it is in ACM/CM and DM where Jose's tactics are costing us. We have the right players and a good mix of styles at our disposal but the tactics in that area of our team are unbalanced and disorganised.
 
The bookmakers still seem to have plenty of confidence in Jose. Odds for Europa League winner here in SA;
Spurs 5-1, United 6, AC Milan 9, Arsenal 9, Napoli 12, Leicester 12, Ajax 14,
Villareal 16, Leverkusen 16
Don't think that I will be backing us, I'd want at least double those odds.
 
Dane Scarlett's inclusion in the match day squad and subsequent introduction from the bench is interesting.

It definitely gets Jose another record.
It distracts the media.
It allows Jose to say in the future "I have no problem playing youngsters, just look at Dane Scarlett"
Then there is Bale. Behind a 16 year old in the pecking order and all the mind games that creates.

Damned if I know, but hoping that Scarlett is being looked after OK and not a pawn in some game.
 
muttley said:
Dane Scarlett's inclusion in the match day squad and subsequent introduction from the bench is interesting.

It definitely gets Jose another record.
It distracts the media.
It allows Jose to say in the future "I have no problem playing youngsters, just look at Dane Scarlett"
Then there is Bale. Behind a 16 year old in the pecking order and all the mind games that creates.

Damned if I know, but hoping that Scarlett is being looked after OK and not a pawn in some game.
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When I saw him come on I was thinking along those lines as well. It's a shame to be so cynical but I couldn't see any other point to it other than to run down the clock.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Its almost like Jose kind of learnt a new word. I don't understand what he means by compromise. I'm not sure he knows either. He can speak many languages and I forgive him if he has confused the word.

Does he mean the players compromised their defensive trait of late and threw caution to the wind and attacked ?
Click to expand...

It means they dumped the shite defensive mentality he's imposed, and that his way of admitting it was shite is to say they 'compromised' i.e. found a new balance.

Which they did, something I've been begging for, for months.

It's a start, now let's hope our £15 mill man has learned the lessons from his disastrous negativity.

Yes, they were poor, but a win is a win, let's hope we still have in us to step it up a level when it matters, although I am still fearful our confidence has been killed by Jose.
 
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RichmondSpur said:
Eriksen was the standout of 7 signings (inc Lamela), he showed that for several seasons until his last 18 months with us. He was on another level to Lamela, and cost considerably less. Lamela wasn't good enough to compete with the Dane and Alli, that was often evident when introduced. Dembele's job was to initiate into the creators and form an impregnable shield with Wanyama. Yes, Lamela has drive and enthusiasm, but my main point about him; which existed in 2013, & still does today is his lack of quality.
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Yep yep yep....correct imo as well . However we are not judging like for like Lameduck in a good team versus Lamela in a poor team, and that it says something when so many on here have named him our MOM for the last two matches even if he plays only part of a match. He does not have the killer touch or top notch skills but he seems to set a tempo and an example to the rest of the team in POSITIVITY, thats his skill and by god we need all the positivity we can with this bunch..
 
So strange and weird to hear Jose screaming 'press' and gesticulating with his arms all through the game, I thought he'd already been replaced.

I'm told the very blunt meeting with Levy, post the Dele issue had an effect, as the instruction was given to stop being so negative.

Could you please do more of this Mr.Levy.
 
Well we got a win, Mourinhosaurus Pastus, read that description elsewhere an I loved it, beats Old Sly Dog SA, though it is correct and should happen every time, because lets be honest WBA were poor.

But what I witnessed still left me thinking WHY?

Start off on the front foot, fast n furious, for 15 - 20 mins, as in both halves, then if scoring or not in the case of the 1st half, we then slow right down, keep ball but not very good, thus allow the opponents to start playing.
In the second exactly as I have just said, front foot, score twice, then slow down and not go for the throat and score more goals, I ask again WHY?
 
Pompey Yid said:
Well we got a win, Mourinhosaurus Pastus, read that description elsewhere an I loved it, beats Old Sly Dog SA, though it is correct and should happen every time, because lets be honest WBA were poor.

But what I witnessed still left me thinking WHY?

Start off on the front foot, fast n furious, for 15 - 20 mins, as in both halves, then if scoring or not in the case of the 1st half, we then slow right down, keep ball but not very good, thus allow the opponents to start playing.
In the second exactly as I have just said, front foot, score twice, then slow down and not go for the throat and score more goals, I ask again WHY?
Click to expand...

Why....I can only suggest preservation and prevention of injury. I have said before that short periods of intensity in a game can be enough rather than flog to death for 90 minutes.
 
Regarding Lamela and his quality, the other players defer to him on corners and some free kicks. Which suggests he is recognised for his superior dead ball delivery. This will have been agreed by the coaching staff and based on training ground evidence and in play history.
I have noticed he is a quick thinker and sometimes assumes his teammates are on the same wavelength so attacks break down.
He has an awful injury record and the debate rolls on as to whether he is a valued squad player or not. Many times he has impressed as a sub, achieved good enough fitness, been promoted as a starter then breaks down with another injury, it is as mentioned....rinse and repeat.
 
Pompey Yid said:
Well we got a win, Mourinhosaurus Pastus, read that description elsewhere an I loved it, beats Old Sly Dog SA, though it is correct and should happen every time, because lets be honest WBA were poor.

But what I witnessed still left me thinking WHY?

Start off on the front foot, fast n furious, for 15 - 20 mins, as in both halves, then if scoring or not in the case of the 1st half, we then slow right down, keep ball but not very good, thus allow the opponents to start playing.
In the second exactly as I have just said, front foot, score twice, then slow down and not go for the throat and score more goals, I ask again WHY?
Click to expand...

It's a modified form of the high-press gegenpressing, where all 11 players press/push up and compress the play, but keeping that pace and intensity is tough to do unless you're fairly young into your professional career, and our team is heading to the wrong end of the professional (best years of your life) career, we have to modify it, the other huge issue is when you play like that everyone has to know their position and recover to it quickly when we lose possession - sadly, we seem incapable of keeping that intensity up, so you play to what's called the phased press - short periods of recovery (especially if you have anyone carrying a recent knock), then you draw the opposition in by falling into a back 4 and then in theory as you win the ball back, you play it across and back to tire the oppositions legs until an overlap or chance to run past their defence opens up.

No system is perfect, but as you saw yesterday if you impress your game-plan on the opposition the chances of their defense making a mistake or giving up space they shouldn't improve dramatically.

It's been calculated that when a defense is being continuously pressed it's 100% more likely to pass poorly and panic under pressure - and start making game changing mistakes, and that can happen to the best of sides.

So your players use the passing phase as the recovery period, whilst in theory your opposition is drawn out, but has little time to recovery.

Essentially, yesterday against an admittedly poor opposition we took that plan and confidence into the game and made it work.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Regarding Lamela and his quality, the other players defer to him on corners and some free kicks. Which suggests he is recognised for his superior dead ball delivery. This will have been agreed by the coaching staff and based on training ground evidence and in play history.
I have noticed he is a quick thinker and sometimes assumes his teammates are on the same wavelength so attacks break down.
He has an awful injury record and the debate rolls on as to whether he is a valued squad player or not. Many times he has impressed as a sub, achieved good enough fitness, been promoted as a starter then breaks down with another injury, it is as mentioned....rinse and repeat.
Click to expand...

So he has one year left on his contract and I'm guessing nobody would argue the case that he's worth another one? The only question really is whether we're prepared to just let him walk in a years time and just use him up until then. He's high maintenance for the medical team but low maintenance for the manager.
 
I should have added:

That's why we played Sanchez, the system only reallyb works if your defence plays a high line, even when pressed. You need pace to cover and recover quickly.

.To minimize space in between the lines, the defence pushes up. If the defence stays deep and the forwards press forward, then there is a lot of space in the middle of the park and all the keeper needs to do is knock the ball over the first line of pressure.

Once past, they will have some 50-60 yards between the attack and defence of freedom with only one or two midfielders who can easily be overloaded and beaten, As such, to stop the space here, the defensive line pushes up.

This in turn allows the midfield and forwards to advance forward and pushes the opposition back into their own half. This exposes a gap between the keeper and the defense however and a perfectly timed pass and run can often undo the good work., that's why in this system you couldn't play Rodon or Dier as they are just too slow.

To stop this, the centrebacks need to be pacy and good on the ball so that they can run on the turn while the keeper needs to be quick and good on the ball to advance forward and sweep up any loose balls. The Highline also compresses space for the opposition, as both defenses are barely 40 yards apart.

Bottom line is it's what we often tried to do under Poch.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Why....I can only suggest preservation and prevention of injury. I have said before that short periods of intensity in a game can be enough rather than flog to death for 90 minutes.
Click to expand...
Ok Nck got that! but the trouble is in our slow/down times goals have been scored against us and we have dropped many points esp from winning positions.
 
Spursex said:
It's a modified form of the high-press gegenpressing, where all 11 players press/push up and compress the play, but keeping that pace and intensity is tough to do unless you're fairly young into your professional career, and our team is heading to the wrong end of the professional (best years of your life) career, we have to modify it, the other huge issue is when you play like that everyone has to know their position and recover to it quickly when we lose possession - sadly, we seem incapable of keeping that intensity up, so you play to what's called the phased press - short periods of recovery (especially if you have anyone carrying a recent knock), then you draw the opposition in by falling into a back 4 and then in theory as you win the ball back, you play it across and back to tire the oppositions legs until an overlap or chance to run past their defence opens up.

No system is perfect, but as you saw yesterday if you impress your game-plan on the opposition the chances of their defense making a mistake or giving up space they shouldn't improve dramatically.

It's been calculated that when a defense is being continuously pressed it's 100% more likely to pass poorly and panic under pressure - and start making game changing mistakes, and that can happen to the best of sides.

So your players use the passing phase as the recovery period, whilst in theory your opposition is drawn out, but has little time to recovery.

Essentially, yesterday against an admittedly poor opposition we took that plan and confidence into the game and made it work.
Click to expand...
Ex, got that, I see where it is coming from, thanks, I will think more on it now whilst watching.
 
Tottenham’s return to winning ways was about more than just Harry Kane

By
Dan Kilpatrick
@Dan_KP
5 hours ago





Harry Kane inspired Tottenham to a 2-0 win over West Brom yesterday, easing the pressure on Jose Mourinho, but there were reasons for optimism beyond the forward’s return.
Kane scored his 208th Spurs goal to move level with Bobby Smith as the club’s joint-second highest scorer, and brilliantly started the move leading to Heung-min Son’s strike.
The contest further underlined Tottenham’s reliance on their talisman but, encouragingly, Mourinho’s system also offered a tentative blueprint for improvement.

Tanguy Ndombele moved back to the midfield two, allowing the manager to introduce an extra forward, with both Erik Lamela and Lucas Moura impressing.

In his new role, Ndombele enabled Spurs to progress the ball more quickly into the final third, where the additional creative player helped to peg back the Baggies for most of the afternoon.


Lamela, who started for the first time since November, offered thrust at inside-right, linking up well with full-back Serge Aurier before the Ivorian was forced off through injury, while Moura made a nuisance of himself at No10 and produced a 60-yard burst from Kane’s flick to set up Son’s goal.
Kane’s recent absence highlighted Tottenham’s dependence on him for goals, and exposed Mourinho’s lack of attacking structures and patterns of play.

He would improve any side and any side would miss him, but he cannot produce miracles every week and Spurs need a coherent system around him to keep their stuttering season on track.
While Kane still provided all their firepower yesterday — he had three sighters before tucking away Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg’s pass — the contest at least offered a glimpse of a more positive structure around the England captain.


The set-up also paves the way for the return of Dele Alli, although Wednesday’s FA Cup fifth-round tie at Everton is likely to come too soon, and Giovani Lo Celso, who could add competition for Ndombele and the attacking three when fit.



Spurs’s malaise began long before Kane’s injury, so their form is not entirely dependent on his fitness.
The hope is that a more adventurous approach could be the key to saving a season in which it has often seemed that Mourinho has curbed his side’s attacking instincts, but the improvement will have to continue against stronger opponents to consider the game any sort of turning point.
 
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