Match Thread: Derby County v Lincoln City | Page 16 | Vital Football

Match Thread: Derby County v Lincoln City

Was at the game. There seems to be different perspectives about Mandroiu between if you were there or watching on I-Follow. Consensus around where I was is that he is a luxury we can't afford in the team. Always turns and goes backwards, never goes forward as a first movement.
Makama to me always seems to be the wrong side of a player to make a challenge, runs towards them to close down, then virtually stops when he gets within 2 yards of them. He needs a man manager to toughen him up, not a coach.
There is someone with a good first touch in there, but if the ball is not to his feet, he struggles.

Heard that Draper is coming back and that we should expect Leeds loans. No idea of the source or credibility.
 
Implode said:
Was at the game. There seems to be different perspectives about Mandroiu between if you were there or watching on I-Follow. Consensus around where I was is that he is a luxury we can't afford in the team. Always turns and goes backwards, never goes forward as a first movement.
Makama to me always seems to be the wrong side of a player to make a challenge, runs towards them to close down, then virtually stops when he gets within 2 yards of them. He needs a man manager to toughen him up, not a coach.
There is someone with a good first touch in there, but if the ball is not to his feet, he struggles.

Heard that Draper is coming back and that we should expect Leeds loans. No idea of the source or credibility.
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Makama appears to have a knack of nearly closing down. Feel for the young lad, but he has no place in a L1 side at present. I doubt the Derby centre-backs will have an easier night this season. That he appears preferred to Vale tells you about his prospects. I'd rather stick a centre-half up top than either as it stands.
 
Implode said:
Was at the game. There seems to be different perspectives about Mandroiu between if you were there or watching on I-Follow. Consensus around where I was is that he is a luxury we can't afford in the team. Always turns and goes backwards, never goes forward as a first movement.
Makama to me always seems to be the wrong side of a player to make a challenge, runs towards them to close down, then virtually stops when he gets within 2 yards of them. He needs a man manager to toughen him up, not a coach.
There is someone with a good first touch in there, but if the ball is not to his feet, he struggles.

Heard that Draper is coming back and that we should expect Leeds loans. No idea of the source or credibility.
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I don't profess to know much about closing down but Just from observation....

Closing down is about angles firstly.

If you look at the players...they run at an angle towards the opponent to close off a line of passing....usually to force the ball carrier to pass in a certain direction(into a non dangerous area).

That's the first aim.

Actually getting your foot in is obviously the second. House is an expert at it and touches the ball about twice a game in those circumstances on a good day.

Given if you go within a yard of an opponent they fall over....getting your foot in is pretty difficult.

If you are 6ft 5 and charge into an opponent you will get a yellow card and then you are on a tightrope as House found at Derby last season.

As for Mandroiu ....the consensus is wrong.
If you have the ability to pick a pass and to keep possession, then that is what you do. He hasn't got great pace so he needs runners to make the most of his ability. He is easily one of our most talented players....

...most roads lead to better options upfront.

They will improve as the unavailable players become available...then Mandroiu will suddenly look a much better player
 
Chimpimp said:
As for Mandroiu ....the consensus is wrong.
If you have the ability to pick a pass and to keep possession, then that is what you do. He hasn't got great pace so he needs runners to make the most of his ability. He is easily one of our most talented players....

...most roads lead to better options upfront.

They will improve as the unavailable players become available...then Mandroiu will suddenly look a much better player
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I think my frustration is getting him the ball in dangerous areas where he can be the difference maker which we were appalling at under Kennedy. We want to have more of the ball now so recycling it is fine especially when he is coming to get it deep.

The best I have seen us do (for a while IMO) in getting him possession in his favoured position (cutting inside between the opposition's midfield and attack from the left flank) was probably Wigan away but I thought he was quite wasteful. But would like to see more games like that to see what he can do.

Perhaps you are right that with Ben House or Tyler Walker or even Reeco playing consistently making runs ahead of him he would be looking better.
 
Mandroiu is not a luxury nor a liability in our team. He's the one player who can unlock an opposition defence in an instant. The issue he has and why he has developed that turn back, is that every time he gets himself into that kind of position there is no movement ahead of him at the moment so the only option available is to go backwards.
You can tell he's as frustrated about this as the fans
 
sedgleyimp said:
Mandroiu is not a luxury nor a liability in our team. He's the one player who can unlock an opposition defence in an instant. The issue he has and why he has developed that turn back, is that every time he gets himself into that kind of position there is no movement ahead of him at the moment so the only option available is to go backwards.
You can tell he's as frustrated about this as the fans
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Agreed Mandroiu is wasted in our current team. If we had intelligent/better players in the team then you'd see his worth.

Under Skubala he is working harder and closing down much more. Good job he is also reliable from the spot too else we wouldn't have scored hardly any goals!
 
Luke Imp said:
Only one person is allowed to stand in the technical area, that's why!
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Thats not the point I am making, he has nobody with considerable EFL experience to turn to, he is new in the job and sometimes, ie now, it would be helpful if he had. Given the limited players he has available he has a very difficult job which he cannot turn round in this window coming up. You look at the 8/9 'big' teams above us and it is very difficult to compete with them, financially or with experienced players who have been around the block a few times.
 
plumbob said:
Makama appears to have a knack of nearly closing down. Feel for the young lad, but he has no place in a L1 side at present. I doubt the Derby centre-backs will have an easier night this season. That he appears preferred to Vale tells you about his prospects. I'd rather stick a centre-half up top than either as it stands.
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I feel for Makama as he has been placed in an invidious position. He should have been sent out on loan to gain experience and toughen him up but a mixture of indifferent recruitment and injuries to key players has put him in the hot seat. What disappointed me last night was the jeering and booing at him by certain fans who should know better. That will not help his confidence one jot.
 
Richard 332 said:
I feel for Makama as he has been placed in an invidious position. He should have been sent out on loan to gain experience and toughen him up but a mixture of indifferent recruitment and injuries to key players has put him in the hot seat. What disappointed me last night was the jeering and booing at him by certain fans who should know better. That will not help his confidence one jot.
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Or the sarcastic cheers when he won a header. Players do hear things from the crowd and certainly will know what is being put on social media and it really isn't helpful to a young players confidence
 
sedgleyimp said:
Or the sarcastic cheers when he won a header. Players do hear things from the crowd and certainly will know what is being put on social media and it really isn't helpful to a young players confidence
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There is potential there with Makama. I think he is incredibly unfortunate not to be out on loan somewhere developing as a player and building his confidence, but our situation with strikers has meant him being thrown in at the deep end.
 
sedgleyimp said:
Mandroiu is not a luxury nor a liability in our team. He's the one player who can unlock an opposition defence in an instant. The issue he has and why he has developed that turn back, is that every time he gets himself into that kind of position there is no movement ahead of him at the moment so the only option available is to go backwards.
You can tell he's as frustrated about this as the fans
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...but Danny is probably the best dribbler in the side, so he shouldn't need runners as soon as he gets the ball.

He never takes the ball on the half turn to give himself a few yards of space to then make a pass. Watch Hamilton and Erhahon - that is what they do, and it gives them the extra yards to either drive forward to pick out a forward pass.

Danny either plays the ball first time towards his own goal, or controls the ball and goes sideways or backwards. In other words he rarely gives himself the opportunity to look for forward movement because he is nearly always facing his own goal when he receives the ball.

He has been here 18 months now. Three managers (including TS) have been unable to find his best position. He shows no signs of improving or adapting to this level. Defensively he's a liability sometimes - watch the highlights and see how he lets that short corner happen for their second goal.

I agree with everyone who says he is our most talented player. I can also see why some fans think he's a liability too. A total enigma.
 
Jules said:
There is potential there with Makama. I think he is incredibly unfortunate not to be out on loan somewhere developing as a player and building his confidence, but our situation with strikers has meant him being thrown in at the deep end.
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Absolutely right. He would have been at Peterborough Sports in different circumstances and developing similar to how Draper is.
 
sedgleyimp said:
Or the sarcastic cheers when he won a header. Players do hear things from the crowd and certainly will know what is being put on social media and it really isn't helpful to a young players confidence
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The pelters he was taking all game really started to p*ss me off!
He's a kid, who by rights really shouldn't be playing anywhere our first team, but needs must. More 'support' like that and he'll be the next Olly Ryan, and his career will be over before its begun.

Totally agree with Jules (and others I'm sure) - there's definitely potential there. He just doesn't really know where to be a lot of the time, mistimes some jumps and he's got the crowd on at him - really helpful!

If only it was this simple, but it feels like he needs a month of one on one coaching with Rheady - teach him how to use his size to his benefit.
 
sedgleyimp said:
Or the sarcastic cheers when he won a header. Players do hear things from the crowd and certainly will know what is being put on social media and it really isn't helpful to a young players confidence
Click to expand...
Not sure 'traditional centre forward' or 'target man' including ability in the air, is the best/long term position for Jovan anyway. Once again he was up against experienced defenders and a swirling wind. Some stood near me seemed to think he also ought to be able to simultaneously 'press' 3 defenders spread across the pitch! Compared to a few years ago I wonder just how much emphasis is now placed to practice heading the ball during youth development. Some of our so-called fans might however be described as 'headers' with little between the ears.
 
In the game against Reading Makama had clearly been instructed to close the pass down to their central midfielder rather than press the back 4. All of his movement against Reading was towards the man with the ball but ensuring that passing lane was cut off, I strongly suspect this was under instruction rather than a reluctance to press as an individual...
 
I will not be too specific about last night because I have only seen the limited highlights and followed on this thread. However is any one really surprised about the result? It is frankly amazing that we are still sat in the top half of League One. After all we have practically played all season without any real forwards and consequently no real attacking threat. The goalkeeper, defence and defensive midfielders have done a brilliant job up to now to get us as many points as we have. They are only human and will not be able to perform at the top of their game every match. With no attacking outlet the ball keeps coming back at the defence who don't really get any chance to get any break from the pressure and good players will make you pay for this.

A lot of people on here have been pointing out that we are playing the same formation and almost the same tactics as under MK so why the change? Where Mk always talked up the way we played even when we were awful Skoobs is not doing that. I actually don't think we will ever know the full reasons behind the sacking but obviously it wasn't just for footballing reasons. But to be fair to Skoobs these are still the same players with no real forwards available so he has really been forced to play the same way and select the same players.

And let's all be honest with a fully fit House . Walker and Hackett we would be a much better team. And if we are all honest at the start of the season the majority of us were delighted with the forwards we had recruited. However fate as intervened which is showing how limited we are with forward cover. I feel for Makama the lad is nowhere near ready for League one football and I actual think it's doing nothing for his development. Vale is a poor loan move for us and reminds me of Plange. But I also think out recruitment team has missed a trick because every team we play seems to have at least one pacy wide player be it winger or wing back who always causes us problems by getting down the byline and putting dangerous balls into the box. Even when all our players our fit we don't have anybody with real pace and can be a threat in wide areas. And this has been the same for the last two seasons.

So yet again January is going to be crucial to us. But please can we have some pace injected into the team but not a load of untried and unproven U21 players from the championship or the premier league. We could do with somebody who can put the ball in the net as well. But I am not naive and realise that as always with the Imps we would struggle financially to get the sort of players we need,
A real dilemma! UTI
 
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