MATCH THREAD … arsenal v TOTTENHAM , Sunday 24 th September 14-00 kick off… PL | Page 25 | Vital Football

MATCH THREAD … arsenal v TOTTENHAM , Sunday 24 th September 14-00 kick off… PL

Charlie's thoughts:

After about half an hour of Saturday’s north London derby, Tottenham Hotspur were in trouble. They were trailing 1-0 and very lucky not to be two down after Gabriel Jesus dispossessed James Maddison in the Spurs area before firing an excellent chance over.

At this point, Tottenham had a choice to make — keep doing what they were doing and trust that the risk was worth it for the potential reward, or compromise the style that had brought them four league wins and a draw going into the game.

They chose the former and the risk earned them the reward of a 2-2 draw that maintained their unbeaten start to the season and stopped a run of three consecutive defeats at the Emirates Stadium.

Ange Postecoglou has already won more points away at Arsenal than his three predecessors, Jose Mourinho, Nuno Espirito Santo and Antonio Conte, picked up between them. And it wasn’t just the scoreline that was in stark contrast to this fixture under those three — the numbers behind it told a similar story.

Spurs had more of the ball (53 per cent) than Arsenal and completed 373 passes to their opponents’ 313. Last season at the Emirates, they had 35 per cent of the ball and completed 240 passes (granted, with 10 men for half an hour).

Postecoglou’s mark on the team was writ large in this game. After Maddison gave the ball away, it was telling that none of the Spurs players had a go at him afterwards. Generally, with Postecoglou, it’s not trying to play out rather than doing so that leads to criticism and that was the case here.....

More here at URL below:




Excellent stuff.
 
Well a friend, who is a mad spammer, went to the game with the red bin dippers yesterday and tells me that the 3-1 scoreline flattered them; said they're open to the counter and had two glorious chances in the first half to get well ahead...

We're overdue a win against them, this could be the one!
Ex got the same view from a Wham oppo of mine who went up there on Sunday.

He even said while choking! that you lot ain't got fcuk all to worry about lol!
 
Well a friend, who is a mad spammer, went to the game with the red bin dippers yesterday and tells me that the 3-1 scoreline flattered them; said they're open to the counter and had two glorious chances in the first half to get well ahead...

We're overdue a win against them, this could be the one!

I was there too. Thats exactly what i would have said to summerise. They were unbelievably open to crosses for some reason and there is gaping room for wide men. VVD & Matip coped with the strength of Antonio well but none of the defense coped with any real movement and skill.

Saying that, they attacked very quickly and very dangerously.
 
That said, in our exuberance in getting the draw, I've tempered my view a little this morning as on re-watching it, it's clear to me losing Rice was a huge turning point for the outcome of the game. For one, I'd doubt they'd have made the same mistake that allowed Maddison to win the possession the way he did to set up Sonny...
Hi Spex
Whilst I concur, to a degree with your comments.
It could equally be said, Arse should've been down to 10 men, what result then??
Equally if the pen isn't given.
Or Madders and Johnson dont get injured and stay on
It's all ifs and buts.
 
Hi Spex
Whilst I concur, to a degree with your comments.
It could equally be said, Arse should've been down to 10 men, what result then??
Equally if the pen isn't given.
Or Madders and Johnson dont get injured and stay on
It's all ifs and buts.
Had Johnny and Madders been fit enough to stay on I think we would have nailed them even with Richy coming on ... thats what I told my Scum neighbours
 
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I was there too. Thats exactly what i would have said to summerise. They were unbelievably open to crosses for some reason and there is gaping room for wide men. VVD & Matip coped with the strength of Antonio well but none of the defense coped with any real movement and skill.

Saying that, they attacked very quickly and very dangerously.
Liverpool always seem to be a team that scores in 2s and 3s. That's what worries me most about them. If our defense holds up against them then we are on for an extremely good season
 
I cannot believe that just because Neville kept saying that Destiny was about to get rinsed by Sakah that everyone has accepted the narrative that he struggled against Sakah first half. He did not break sweat dealing with sak and Sak fouled him three times before Destiny was harshly booked. Sakah took him on once when Sakah first got the ball and Destiny just outpaced him to see the ball out. He did not seek to run Destiny again until early second half when Destiny easily kept pace with him and steered the ball out for a corner. OK so that resulted in their corrupt penalty.
At the five minute mark Destiny was sprinting upfield leaving Sakah in his wake. Sakah grabbed his arm to arrest his escape and Destiny pushed him back and then just stopped running and asked the ref to give him his foul (the third he had suffered at the hands of Sakah in the first five minutes). Sakah wondered why Destiny had stopped so he looked back and saw him appealing to the ref so he threw himself to the ground when ten yards from Destiny. Astonishingly the ref gave him a free kick. Rather it was Zinchenko who was humiliated by Dekki.
 
I cannot believe that just because Neville kept saying that Destiny was about to get rinsed by Sakah that everyone has accepted the narrative that he struggled against Sakah first half. He did not break sweat dealing with sak and Sak fouled him three times before Destiny was harshly booked. Sakah took him on once when Sakah first got the ball and Destiny just outpaced him to see the ball out. He did not seek to run Destiny again until early second half when Destiny easily kept pace with him and steered the ball out for a corner. OK so that resulted in their corrupt penalty.
At the five minute mark Destiny was sprinting upfield leaving Sakah in his wake. Sakah grabbed his arm to arrest his escape and Destiny pushed him back and then just stopped running and asked the ref to give him his foul (the third he had suffered at the hands of Sakah in the first five minutes). Sakah wondered why Destiny had stopped so he looked back and saw him appealing to the ref so he threw himself to the ground when ten yards from Destiny. Astonishingly the ref gave him a free kick. Rather it was Zinchenko who was humiliated by Dekki.


There are two good pieces of analysis, the first is here:

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/arsenal-tottenham-tactics-arteta-postecoglou-september-2023/

(just click on link)

and the second is here:

Afraid this has a paywall, and not easy to copy here as it has lots of images with movement explainations:

How Spurs’ excellent Udogie recovered from his early struggles against Saka​



Another report:​


Superb start​


"Amidst a crackling atmosphere at Emirates Stadium, we began brighest, pressing our opponents with menace and snapping into tackles to try and get the early upper hand, and it worked.


After a brief early scare when Son found the net from an obvious offside position, we began creating chances and a superb reaction stop from Guglielmo Vicario prevented Gabriel Jesus from firing home a Saka cross, whose direct running caused Spurs left-back Destiny Udogie to pick up an early booking for persistent fouling within the opening 15 minutes.


The narrative across all reports is they think that Saka had the best of it up until and for 10 mins after he got booked, but then Destiny came into his own and matched or bettered Saka....

The young defender was rattled and soon after his weak backpass allowed Eddie Nketiah to sneak behind him and blast straight at Vicario from a tight angle, but the pressure told on 26 minutes when the lead was finally seized.


The move began when Oleksandr Zinchenko broke up a Spurs attack on the left and charged forward before finding Martin Odegaard who switched the ball to Saka on the right. In trademark fashion, he cut inside and took aim, and saw his curler diverted into his own goal by Romero to get all Gooners celebrating and reward our positivity."

and last but not least, what did the stats tell us?

The defender (Udogie), who narrowly avoided a second yellow card, lost 10 of his 19 ground battles, won only 50% of his tackles, was dispossessed three times, and was dribbled past twice.
He won no aerial duels, committed four fouls, and mishandled a backpass that almost led to a goal for Eddie Nketiah.


Additionally, he handled the ball in the penalty area which should have been awarded as a penalty by VAR, with his hand above his head, and was forced to rugby tackle Saka to prevent a breakaway, further undermining Postecoglu’s claim of dominance.
In contrast, Bukayo Saka was involved in both Arsenal goals, something Udogie was tasked with stopping, although he can obviously be excused for the penalty.
In total, Saka created four chances, more than any other player on the pitch.


So, I think it looks like honours even to me, his starting original poorish stats were almost all accumulated in the first half, so the Athletics headline, appears to be fair and honest..
 
There are two good pieces of analysis, the first is here:

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/arsenal-tottenham-tactics-arteta-postecoglou-september-2023/

(just click on link)

and the second is here:

Afraid this has a paywall, and not easy to copy here as it has lots of images with movement explainations:

How Spurs’ excellent Udogie recovered from his early struggles against Saka​



Another report:​


Superb start​


"Amidst a crackling atmosphere at Emirates Stadium, we began brighest, pressing our opponents with menace and snapping into tackles to try and get the early upper hand, and it worked.


After a brief early scare when Son found the net from an obvious offside position, we began creating chances and a superb reaction stop from Guglielmo Vicario prevented Gabriel Jesus from firing home a Saka cross, whose direct running caused Spurs left-back Destiny Udogie to pick up an early booking for persistent fouling within the opening 15 minutes.


The narrative across all reports is they think that Saka had the best of it up until and for 10 mins after he got booked, but then Destiny came into his own and matched or bettered Saka....

The young defender was rattled and soon after his weak backpass allowed Eddie Nketiah to sneak behind him and blast straight at Vicario from a tight angle, but the pressure told on 26 minutes when the lead was finally seized.


The move began when Oleksandr Zinchenko broke up a Spurs attack on the left and charged forward before finding Martin Odegaard who switched the ball to Saka on the right. In trademark fashion, he cut inside and took aim, and saw his curler diverted into his own goal by Romero to get all Gooners celebrating and reward our positivity."

and last but not least, what did the stats tell us?

The defender (Udogie), who narrowly avoided a second yellow card, lost 10 of his 19 ground battles, won only 50% of his tackles, was dispossessed three times, and was dribbled past twice.
He won no aerial duels, committed four fouls, and mishandled a backpass that almost led to a goal for Eddie Nketiah.


Additionally, he handled the ball in the penalty area which should have been awarded as a penalty by VAR, with his hand above his head, and was forced to rugby tackle Saka to prevent a breakaway, further undermining Postecoglu’s claim of dominance.
In contrast, Bukayo Saka was involved in both Arsenal goals, something Udogie was tasked with stopping, although he can obviously be excused for the penalty.
In total, Saka created four chances, more than any other player on the pitch.


So, I think it looks like honours even to me, his starting original poorish stats were almost all accumulated in the first half, so the Athletics headline, appears to be fair and honest..
Destiny was fouled by Arsenal players all game whenever he broke forward but none of the offenses were penalised so it means the stats given are meaningless. The so called rugby tackle followed Sakah rugby tackling him to the ground and on his way down he pulled Sakah with him but the first foul was Sakah's and why was Sakah vertically above Destiny as they both were falling?. The first goal was no reflection on Destiny as Sakah was yards apart from him, which you can do nothing about when returning from a forward attack. Sakah did not wait for destiny to close the space he just opted to curl a ball across goal. It was harmless as balls from such a shallow angle nearly always are. Romero somehow made it into an own goal by ill luck.
 
There are two good pieces of analysis, the first is here:

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/arsenal-tottenham-tactics-arteta-postecoglou-september-2023/

(just click on link)

and the second is here:

Afraid this has a paywall, and not easy to copy here as it has lots of images with movement explainations:

How Spurs’ excellent Udogie recovered from his early struggles against Saka​



Another report:​


Superb start​


"Amidst a crackling atmosphere at Emirates Stadium, we began brighest, pressing our opponents with menace and snapping into tackles to try and get the early upper hand, and it worked.


After a brief early scare when Son found the net from an obvious offside position, we began creating chances and a superb reaction stop from Guglielmo Vicario prevented Gabriel Jesus from firing home a Saka cross, whose direct running caused Spurs left-back Destiny Udogie to pick up an early booking for persistent fouling within the opening 15 minutes.


The narrative across all reports is they think that Saka had the best of it up until and for 10 mins after he got booked, but then Destiny came into his own and matched or bettered Saka....

The young defender was rattled and soon after his weak backpass allowed Eddie Nketiah to sneak behind him and blast straight at Vicario from a tight angle, but the pressure told on 26 minutes when the lead was finally seized.


The move began when Oleksandr Zinchenko broke up a Spurs attack on the left and charged forward before finding Martin Odegaard who switched the ball to Saka on the right. In trademark fashion, he cut inside and took aim, and saw his curler diverted into his own goal by Romero to get all Gooners celebrating and reward our positivity."

and last but not least, what did the stats tell us?

The defender (Udogie), who narrowly avoided a second yellow card, lost 10 of his 19 ground battles, won only 50% of his tackles, was dispossessed three times, and was dribbled past twice.
He won no aerial duels, committed four fouls, and mishandled a backpass that almost led to a goal for Eddie Nketiah.


Additionally, he handled the ball in the penalty area which should have been awarded as a penalty by VAR, with his hand above his head, and was forced to rugby tackle Saka to prevent a breakaway, further undermining Postecoglu’s claim of dominance.
In contrast, Bukayo Saka was involved in both Arsenal goals, something Udogie was tasked with stopping, although he can obviously be excused for the penalty.
In total, Saka created four chances, more than any other player on the pitch.


So, I think it looks like honours even to me, his starting original poorish stats were almost all accumulated in the first half, so the Athletics headline, appears to be fair and honest..

Honours even against Saka is very credible.

You could tell that Saka is now immersed in the dark arts though. Saying that, Destiny needs to be ready for the ultimate thespian in Salah this weekend. He works every angle with the refs.
 
Honours even against Saka is very credible.

You could tell that Saka is now immersed in the dark arts though. Saying that, Destiny needs to be ready for the ultimate thespian in Salah this weekend. He works every angle with the refs.

that's pretty much how I saw it, Saka was a handful first 20 mins or so and then as the game calmed down to a pattern and johnson started doing his defensive work, it evened out. Destiny is an exceptional player, a few more tests like that and he'll be even better. I'm hugely impressed with him. I think if he keeps playing like this in a season or two it's entirely possible we'd be under siege again from the huge clubs to buy him.
 
that's pretty much how I saw it, Saka was a handful first 20 mins or so and then as the game calmed down to a pattern and johnson started doing his defensive work, it evened out. Destiny is an exceptional player, a few more tests like that and he'll be even better. I'm hugely impressed with him. I think if he keeps playing like this in a season or two it's entirely possible we'd be under siege again from the huge clubs to buy him.

It must be interesting when "2nd/3rd Gen Nigerians" come up against each other in this way. Internationally, they both chose their country of birth, but I bet they both have that Nigerian DNA in them. I bet they loved playing against each other.
 
Destiny was fouled by Arsenal players all game whenever he broke forward but none of the offenses were penalised so it means the stats given are meaningless. The so called rugby tackle followed Sakah rugby tackling him to the ground and on his way down he pulled Sakah with him but the first foul was Sakah's and why was Sakah vertically above Destiny as they both were falling?. The first goal was no reflection on Destiny as Sakah was yards apart from him, which you can do nothing about when returning from a forward attack. Sakah did not wait for destiny to close the space he just opted to curl a ball across goal. It was harmless as balls from such a shallow angle nearly always are. Romero somehow made it into an own goal by ill luck.

As the stats showed he was only fouled 4 times (it does feel like more).

As for the rest..it's all about opinions. he did exceptionally well for a highly charged derby.
 
To me the main issue we had was being a little too sloppy in the midfield and giving the ball away in areas that hurt us.