Manchester City | Vital Football

Manchester City

loudmouthblue

Vital 1st Team Regular
#1
Forgive me but I am going to say something quite controversial here (not like me lol), but I watched the first half of the City v Chelsea game this afternoon before going to work and I have to say I honestly believe they would have beaten us today on that display !
 

Lazysid

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Forgive me but I am going to say something quite controversial here (not like me lol), but I watched the first half of the City v Chelsea game this afternoon before going to work and I have to say I honestly believe they would have beaten us today on that display !
Ruddy doom mongers on here again, get a grip man.
Okay, maybe at their place and if they was at full strength and with our current injuries.
 

Adgjlzcbm

Vital Reserves Team
#3
Nothing controversial. You might be right but then you could not be. Don't every football clubs have a bogey team & we're theirs as proven countless (exaggeration I know) times.
 

Will_Shahane

Vital Reserves Team
#6
City along with Rotherham were unplayable at the weekend.
I don't know why Cook is always so overly complimentary to the opposition. I'm all for being humble and sporting, but he takes it to another level. In the interview before the game he was going to say that Rotherham were 'overachieving', but then stopped himself, and instead suggested that they were 'doing better than what they should be'. Isn't that exactly what overachieving means? Why can't he just say it as it is? I'm sure the majority of Rotherham fans would agree that they're overachieving.

Maybe it's a little harsh to call him out on this technicality as it's a pre-match interview and not the Queen's speech, but I just thought it reflected his unwillingness to say anything bad about the opposition whatsoever, which is turning into a loser's mentality now. He described himself to be 'in awe' of Nottingham Forest, described Rotherham as 'unplayable', and even when we beat Stoke he claimed it was because 'everything went our way'. Does he have no ambition or what?
 
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moonay

Vital Football Hero
#7
To turn it round though Will, whenever opposition managers "disrespect" t' Tics, some of our (more touchy?) fans go apoplectic with rage.

Perhaps Cook is just that kind of person - respectful .......... like in the way that he makes a point of shaking the hand of every opposition player as they're leaving the pitch.

I'm sure that what he says to the press and what he says to the team don't necessarily have any similarity.
 

Will_Shahane

Vital Reserves Team
#8
To turn it round though Will, whenever opposition managers "disrespect" t' Tics, some of our (more touchy?) fans go apoplectic with rage.

Perhaps Cook is just that kind of person - respectful .......... like in the way that he makes a point of shaking the hand of every opposition player as they're leaving the pitch.

I'm sure that what he says to the press and what he says to the team don't necessarily have any similarity.
Yeah I get that, but there's a fine margin between being respectful, and being sycophantic, and I feel that some of Cook's comments about the opposition have fallen under the latter description unfortunately. There is a middle ground between being disrespectful (as I feel Dean Smith was after our game against Villa, for example), and making the kind of comments that Cook does. I don't want him to be disrespectful, but he could've just said something like 'Rotherham had a clear game plan and executed it well, but we perhaps made it a little easier for them than it should've been.' No disregard for the opposition's effort there.

Name me one other manager in this league (or any league) that would admit to being 'in awe' of a mid-table Championship side, or that would describe a side 21st in the league as 'unplayable'. Can you imagine Bielsa doing it? His excessive respect for the opposition is becoming a loser's mentality in my opinion, and although he may not say it directly to the team, I feel it must nonetheless have an effect on them.
 

hindleymonwafc

Vital 1st Team Regular
#9
I've been saying this all season about Cook going overboard re the attributes of our opposition. There's being respectful and then there's getting your excuses in for our own shortcomings.

For someone of your tender years Will you display a nous that would put much older folk to shame. Keep it up son.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#12
Will, Hindley, tl4e, you are all 3, obviously, correct..... to a degree........ then again, you also all demonstrate that undeniable truth ....... one rule for one, one rule for t'other.
:rolleyes:
 

Will_Shahane

Vital Reserves Team
#13
Something else to beat the Manager up about then.
What does it matter?
Maybe he does it so people will slag him off and lay off the usual suspect players a bit?
I think it does matter to be honest. A large part of professional football is psychological and when Cook claims to be 'in awe' of a mid-table side, I don't think it sends out a good message to the players in terms of helping them to win the mental battle. It suggests an inferiority complex, and gives the impression that we're not equal to them, and would be lucky to get anything from the game. This is not conducive to the confidence needed to win games in this league and I feel it must have an effect on the players.

I honestly wasn't trying to beat the manager up - I genuinely want him to do well and have tried to remain positive throughout the last few months. It obviously hasn't been easy for Cook with key players injured, a limited budget relative to other teams in this league, etc and I think everyone appreciates that. I don't think anyone on here could honestly say they want him to fail. All I was saying is that some of his comments about the opposition are both untrue and overly complimentary, and are developing into a loser's mentality that may have an effect on the players. I appreciate your positivity, but there is a time for criticism and a time for praise. I'd like to think I give praise when it's due, but if you can't speak up when you feel something's wrong then, as others have mentioned, what is the point of this forum?
 
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moonay

Vital Football Hero
#15
.................., but if you can't speak up when you feel something's wrong then, as others have mentioned, what is the point of this forum?
Absolutely bob on that Will.......................... which is why others have the same "right" to take an opposing view to yours.

;)

Simple. We detest other Managers not giving t' Tics credit where deserved, but want Cook to abandon his (overly?) respectful assessments. One rule ......and then another rule.

Two points:

- I'm sure Cook has a different message to the players .......... he'll want em to pa no respect whatsoever.

- With Forest, the "awe" is more likely to do with their history rather than their current position. Nothing wrong with that.
 

Lazysid

Vital 1st Team Regular
#16
I think it does matter to be honest. A large part of professional football is psychological and when Cook claims to be 'in awe' of a mid-table side, I don't think it sends out a good message to the players in terms of helping them to win the mental battle. It suggests an inferiority complex, and gives the impression that we're not equal to them, and would be lucky to get anything from the game. This is not conducive to the confidence needed to win games in this league and I feel it must have an effect on the players.

I honestly wasn't trying to beat the manager up - I genuinely want him to do well and have tried to remain positive throughout the last few months. It obviously hasn't been easy for Cook with key players injured, a limited budget relative to other teams in this league, etc and I think everyone appreciates that. I don't think anyone on here could honestly say they want him to fail. All I was saying is that some of his comments about the opposition are both untrue and overly complimentary, and are developing into a loser's mentality that may have an effect on the players. I appreciate your positivity, but there is a time for criticism and a time for praise. I'd like to think I give praise when it's due, but if you can't speak up when you feel something's wrong then, as others have mentioned, what is the point of this forum?
Cook is always trying to gain the advantage or make the most of the situation - he's not stupid and he certainly not a soft touch. You see him trying it on constantly with the way he conducts himself at home on the sidelines with both vocal and body language signs. When we have been winning comfortably he's put the backroom staff in the spotlight both in the Technical area and in front of the cameras.
His buttering up of opposition players just might persuade a potential decent signing be attracted to come to Wigan. His praise of the opposition to the media will try and distract from his own teams lack lustre performance. What should he have said - "They are shit , but we was even more shittier!" although true he has to motivate these players to go again.
 

Will_Shahane

Vital Reserves Team
#17
Absolutely bob on that Will.......................... which is why others have the same "right" to take an opposing view to yours.

;)
Oh yeah for sure; I never said they didn’t. I was just making the point that people should be able to post critical as well as complimentary comments on here. I got the impression that Kenny was disagreeing simply because my comment was critical, rather than actually presenting a different view (correct me if I’m wrong here Kenny 😉).

Simple. We detest other Managers not giving t' Tics credit where deserved, but want Cook to abandon his (overly?) respectful assessments. One rule ......and then another rule.
I never said that Cook shouldn’t give the opposition deserved credit though. It’s possible to give credit without describing a side in 21st as ‘unplayable’, being ‘in awe’ of a mid-table side, or undermining our own achievements by suggesting that ‘everything went our way’ after a great 3-0 win. Such comments go beyond giving credit and being respectful; like I said, they are sycophantic and potentially injurious to the Latics. Also, I wouldn’t like it if the opposition manager described the Latics as ‘unplayable’ to be honest, as it wouldn’t seem genuine. I’d much rather he give an honest view.

I think what people detest is when managers disregard our effort completely, and focus solely on their own side’s deficiencies, like Dean Smith did after our win against Villa a few weeks ago. Most would accept a balanced view, I think.

Two points:

- I'm sure Cook has a different message to the players .......... he'll want em to pa no respect whatsoever.
You’re probably right, but nonetheless players will read articles and see comments in the media. I do think that this will affect them, even in Cook doesn’t make these comments to the team directly.

- With Forest, the "awe" is more likely to do with their history rather than their current position. Nothing wrong with that.
It was based on their performance versus West Brom at the start of the season. ‘Wigan boss Paul Cook admits he was in awe of Nottingham Forest’s recent display against West Bromwich Albion’.
 
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OnLoanfromEnfield

Vital 1st Team Regular
#18
Cook is always trying to gain the advantage or make the most of the situation - he's not stupid and he certainly not a soft touch. You see him trying it on constantly with the way he conducts himself at home on the sidelines with both vocal and body language signs. When we have been winning comfortably he's put the backroom staff in the spotlight both in the Technical area and in front of the cameras.
His buttering up of opposition players just might persuade a potential decent signing be attracted to come to Wigan. His praise of the opposition to the media will try and distract from his own teams lack lustre performance. What should he have said - "They are shit , but we was even more shittier!" although true he has to motivate these players to go again.
As per Sid's 1st comment ... from the Stoke Press conference
Will Jones be mixing up strikers?
Nathan Jones: Paul Cook is a wily fox so I won’t name my team! I wouldn’t say we were shot shy but we missed a bit of cutting edge.
etc etc etc etc
 

Kenny Morris

Vital Squad Member
#19
Oh yeah for sure; I never said they didn’t. I was just making the point that people should be able to post critical as well as complimentary comments on here. I got the impression that Kenny was disagreeing simply because my comment was critical, rather than actually presenting a different view (correct me if I’m wrong here Kenny 😉).
No, I wasn't disagreeing just because your comment was critical, I was disagreeing because I thought that your comment was unnecessarily critical and I didn't think it mattered that much what PC said in the interview, it's what he says in private to the players that matters.
But yes maybe my comment could come across the way that you saw it, that's the problem with social media, e-mails and msg boards, things can be taken the wrong way easily because there is no human element in the text.
 

Will_Shahane

Vital Reserves Team
#20
No, I wasn't disagreeing just because your comment was critical, I was disagreeing because I thought that your comment was unnecessarily critical and I didn't think it mattered that much what PC said in the interview, it's what he says in private to the players that matters.
But yes maybe my comment could come across the way that you saw it, that's the problem with social media, e-mails and msg boards, things can be taken the wrong way easily because there is no human element in the text.
Oh okay, my apologies for misinterpreting your comment. As you say it's hard to detect the sentiment in an online post. Personally I still think that Cook's comments in interviews will have an effect on the players, but let's agree to disagree because at the end of the day neither of us can prove it one way or the other!
 
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