When MacKenzie was signed I thought it was specifically to provide competition and cover for Jackson, as well as cover at centre-back and in front of back four, where he played quite well for a few games; I quite like Jackson but he was never the same after his injury in his first spell with us, and looks like he is being targeted (or rather the space behind him) by the better teams at Priestfield; maybe ok away but I'd put MacK in at right back at home to the likes of Peterborough and Doncaster, who are the only 2 'top' sides we have left to play at home
Thing is one person has to make the decision, as everyone has different opinions. Most decisions in football come down to opinion, did the contact begin outside the box, was he going down anyway, does he have a history of going down easily, did i hear contact, etc.
Once you start introducing VAR and panels it doesnt come down to one person's opinion any more. The ref should be responsible, rightly or wrongly.
Once you start introducing VAR and panels it doesnt come down to one person's opinion any more. The ref should be responsible, rightly or wrongly.
normarrowsmith
Vital Newbie
Are referee's influenced by this table?
https://www.transfermarkt.com/league-one/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB3
Obviously having a good simulator in your team can bring rewards.
I wonder why the EFL are reluctant to take effective and decisive action?
A 5 match ban for the player and 3 point deduction against the team might just stamp it out.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/league-one/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB3
Obviously having a good simulator in your team can bring rewards.
I wonder why the EFL are reluctant to take effective and decisive action?
A 5 match ban for the player and 3 point deduction against the team might just stamp it out.
shotshy
Vital Champions League
So, a league average of 2.95 per club and Lincoln have had 10.
Divers or a box attacking team?
Only the ref can decide.
chris who
Vital Champions League
I sort of agree .Let the referee who referees the match look at recording after the match .If he feels he has been conned having the power to do something about it.It would then never happen lightly. Any seriously bad behaviour could be punished. Forget VAR let the ref on the pitch make all the decisions. If there is a decision where he wants to look at something and the technology has something to show him then fine let him look in isolated cases.Having the official looking at his mistakes or otherwise after the game.It can also be a learning process. If it is clear and the ref still does nothing then that is a matter for the FA to investigate.
wxgill
Vital 1st Team Regular
Never going to happen.
A referee will not want to admit he has been conned.
The decision needs to be with 1 ex ref, 1 ex player and 1 A N Other.
OneSirKeefy
Vital Football Hero
Having matches reviewed afterwards is a no brainer for me. What would be the downsides? I can’t think of any.
Instances of blatant and obvious cheating, diving, simulation etc should be given a retrospective ban. Lengthy ones at that.
It won’t change the outcome of the game in question, but I think most of it (simulation) would stop overnight. I doubt players want to win a penalty if it means missing the next 2 or 3 games.
And while they are at it, shame them. Make it known that “Player X is missing the next 2 games because of this really shocking attempt to con the ref and cheat”. Keep replaying said video of flailing leg, dive with no contact and 5 rollovers
Yes, I know there will still be issues around falling over with minimal contact. But once players know they might be banned for simulation they will be less inclined to fall over at the first opportunity.
Oh. It also needs to be backed up by refs actually giving a penalty when someone is obviously fouled but doesn’t just fall over theatrically. If a player tries to do the right thing, stays up but then misses a shot, bring it back and give the pen/foul.
rant over......
Instances of blatant and obvious cheating, diving, simulation etc should be given a retrospective ban. Lengthy ones at that.
It won’t change the outcome of the game in question, but I think most of it (simulation) would stop overnight. I doubt players want to win a penalty if it means missing the next 2 or 3 games.
And while they are at it, shame them. Make it known that “Player X is missing the next 2 games because of this really shocking attempt to con the ref and cheat”. Keep replaying said video of flailing leg, dive with no contact and 5 rollovers
Yes, I know there will still be issues around falling over with minimal contact. But once players know they might be banned for simulation they will be less inclined to fall over at the first opportunity.
Oh. It also needs to be backed up by refs actually giving a penalty when someone is obviously fouled but doesn’t just fall over theatrically. If a player tries to do the right thing, stays up but then misses a shot, bring it back and give the pen/foul.
rant over......
wxgill
Vital 1st Team Regular
Another can of worms:Having matches reviewed afterwards is a no brainer for me. What would be the downsides? I can’t think of any.
Instances of blatant and obvious cheating, diving, simulation etc should be given a retrospective ban. Lengthy ones at that.
It won’t change the outcome of the game in question, but I think most of it (simulation) would stop overnight. I doubt players want to win a penalty if it means missing the next 2 or 3 games.
And while they are at it, shame them. Make it known that “Player X is missing the next 2 games because of this really shocking attempt to con the ref and cheat”. Keep replaying said video of flailing leg, dive with no contact and 5 rollovers
Yes, I know there will still be issues around falling over with minimal contact. But once players know they might be banned for simulation they will be less inclined to fall over at the first opportunity.
Oh. It also needs to be backed up by refs actually giving a penalty when someone is obviously fouled but doesn’t just fall over theatrically. If a player tries to do the right thing, stays up but then misses a shot, bring it back and give the pen/foul.
rant over......
What does and does not constitute a foul, e.g how hard does a pull of a shirt or arm have to be to award a penalty for instance.
Yes that was kinda the point i tried to make a few posts ago. So many judgement calls need to be made during a match the responsibility has to fall on one person alone. Replays lose the subtlety of the moment, and usually makes things look worse, especially if you're say running at full pelt. I would personally say that "more" of a foul has to be committed for it to be a pen then a free kick in the centre circle because by giving a pen you are 90% of the time giving that team a goal. But the laws of the game make no such distinction. That is partly why more "soft" pens seem to be given under var cause any foul counts.
chris who
Vital Champions League
If the ref repeatedly could not see if he had made a mistake I think the authorities might not take that well .It is all a question of the good management of referees at the moment I feel the referee is been undermined more.The referee is not generally the biggest problem it is now TV and the authorities that have made the refs job impossible. The longer that others make the decisions the harder it will be to get a decent referee at our level.There might come a point when genuinely we have to import referees for our matches.The situation currently just must not be allowed to continue. Some people in high places need a massive kick up the bum.
At present the guy in the stands is encouraged to change the decision if any reason what so ever for doubt.While the ref is discouraged from ever admitting he was wrong.The management of that needs to be switched to the ref .Change only clear errors and promote those who can prove they are normally right but prepared to hold their hand up and take action on errors like the Lincoln penalty call.
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chris who
Vital Champions League
But that is surely why it needs to be the judgement of one person who is well managed. At present the situation is a joke and the fans will blame referees but in truth the problem is much high than that.Imagine for example you had the same situation in the courts I know you have the court of appeal etc.But at present the the judge/ref makes a judgement then someone in another room changes it.What would that achieve. In my view worse judgement. More disgruntled people on the receiving end and long term undermining of the said ref/judge.
Captainreblue
Vital 1st Team Regular
The number of times you see a ref put the whistle in his mouth when there's a challenge/foul/coming together but then doesn't blow. It's a difficult job and you've got to make a split second decision. Still doesn't excuse some of them (Mike Dean, Trevor Kettle, Gavin Ward to name just three) being useless wankers of the highest orders.
OneSirKeefy
Vital Football Hero
Yeah, I realise that and made that point.
But the fact remains there are plenty of penalties given when there is pretty much zero contact.
Give retrospective bans for those, and players coming under minimal contact might just think twice before flailing their legs everywhere and falling to the floor like they’ve been shot.
It certainly won’t do any harm to try.
wxgill
Vital 1st Team Regular
OSK:
Totally agree with what you say.
I would guess why this retropsective action is not taken is for legal reasons.
Imagine a player banned for diving who maintains he was "touched" would use legal action to clear "his good name".
A legal minefield would ensue.
Football is a contact sport; if minimal contact in a tackle is not given as a foul anywhere else on the pitch, why is the slightest contact given as a foul in the penalty area.
I've noticed recently that when contact is made in the penalty area the 'fouled' player doesn't just fall to the ground, but throws himself 90 degrees. Mo Salah is a culprit of this.
timnolongerinbrisban
Vital Squad Member
All teams do it, including Gillingham, so it's slightly churlish for our manager to start preaching about diving. It's the main reason my interest in football has waned. When someone in the media (Danny Murphy springs to mind) states that someone was 'entitled' to go down, then the games up in my book.
As I have posted before when I did a refereeing course in the late 60's, we were told that all refereeing decisions were final. The most important phrase in the laws of the game is 'In the opinion of the referee' if the ref didn't give a free kick it wasn't a foul. Offside was simpler the attacking player had to be behind the last defender, when the ball is played for him to receive. Handball was for the ref to decide was it hand to ball (deliberate) or ball to hand (accidental) it seemed to work then. Referee's actually make less mistakes per game at all levels than the average player. Watch some games as a neutral observer and I think you will agree.
chris who
Vital Champions League
Taking away that self governing ref and put in someone with millions of people looking over his shoulder and a bloke in the stands changing his decisions and you get a load of weak poor referees. Not all yet but given time the referees are going to get worse if nothing changes.
