Levy confirms Bonus payments go a long way... | Vital Forums

Levy confirms Bonus payments go a long way...

#1
I've said here for a long time that our contracts are heavily weighted towards big bonus payments - as I believe it should be, but of course other clubs don't agree.....and pay bigger flat contract payments and smaller percentage bonus's...of course the club is still attacked by those who can't or won't see the necessity/prudence of having heavily incentivized contracts - but at least this proves my info was rock solid....



https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/news/daniel-levy-reveals-spurs-wages-14343179

Daniel Levy reveals giant Spurs wages bonuses nobody mentions which help keep Harry Kane & co

Much is made of Tottenham's wage structure but not the bonuses


ByAlasdair GoldTottenham Hotspur correspondent

11:34, 27 FEB 2018Updated11:35, 27 FEB 2018


Tottenham chief excites fans with bold transfer statement during 'difficult' January window

Tottenham Hotspur's wages structure is often a topic of debate but that discussion rarely includes the club's bonus scheme for its players.

Spurs chairman Daniel Levy brought up that very point at the latest meeting last week between members of the club's board and the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust.

The future of defender Toby Alderweireld mired in speculation in recent weeks, with reports that he asking for £150,000 a week, a figure that the stories claim Spurs will not agree to.

Much has been made of the wages paid at Tottenham compared to their Premier League top four rival. However, football.london has always understood that the bonuses paid out at the club are the biggest in the division and Levy has now confirmed that at the meeting with the supporters' trust.

The Supporters' Trust secretary Peter Haine brought up the subject of the bonuses paid to players at the club.
Tottenham Hotspur chairman Daniel Levy

The minutes of the meeting read: "Peter Haine mentioned the bonus payments, also. It was felt the bonus structure and incentives should also be considered when discussing players wages as they comprised a significant part of the monies and are the most generous of any club in the Premier League."

football.london understands that it was Levy who responded with the claim about the bonus structure and incentives. That would go some way to explaining why, along with the management of Mauricio Pochettino, players like Harry Kane and Dele Alli aren't desperately trying to find a way out of the club as some reports might suggest.
Read More

Daniel Levy's update on Tottenham's new stadium naming rights negotiations may surprise fans

The Spurs chairman also revealed that the club spend roughly 50 per cent of their income on the players and he had plenty to say on manager Mauricio Pochettino and the future sale of players.

"Daniel Levy felt that Mauricio Pochettino is the best manager in all the time he has been at Tottenham," read the minutes from the meeting. "They see eye to eye in terms of strategy. No player would be sold that Mauricio Pochettino wanted to stay.

"Daniel Levy noted the perception that Spurs needed to spend money on players. This wasn’t borne out of fact. There are no guarantees. Big money signings are not always successful."
 

alpine74

Vital Youth Team
#2
To ask me to let my wages be determined by whether Serge Aurier can successfully throw a ball in is comical ... yes, I agree it is a team sport but my individual contributions are sometimes blatant and measurable and shouldn't directly correlate to that of 23 other men, especially seeing as this is not the current norm with other teams or the way forward in football. i thought we all agreed this is a massive business. every profession has a pay scale. this just happens to be mine, it is unfair to ask me to accept 1/3 of that because it is higher than the average profession. none of you would do that.. you think singing my name one week will satiate me especially seeing as the very next week you could easily be doing the opposite as is known to happen on the regular. your loyalty is a myth. your singing is not worth double/triple my worth. or the snake oil being sold from the top.

thank you
Signed: any sensible human

In the case of Alderwiereld

Toby: I've already given your top draw/ world-class performances for the past three year for 1/3 the price... there are records to prove it. (best defense) the least you can do is balance out my wage during my tenure. and don't give me that we're building... I was told that the build would not interfere with player dealing or was that a lie.. if your confidence in the new stadium and future success is as you say it is.. (not that you need too but if you say funds are not available why not take an advance for the sake of stability and further ensuring that success. instead of you all debating on whether I'm replaceable and how you've managed without me... some loyalty... or is the furture success based on prudence.. isn't "to dare is to do" your mantra... but keep with the narrative that to increase my wage means your financial ruining... revenue increase on all fronts says otherwise... I'm 29 and can't wait on you. let your shareholders do the waiting for the 3-5 years you propose.
 
#3
There would be individual targets as well as team targets.

And it would be understandable for Toby to leave if he wants guarantees. The converse of what you say is that Toby knew what he was signing when he joined Spurs and he has participated in the bonus program in almost all of that time.

Does he deserve more than he is getting? Undoubtedly.

Will we pay what other teams will? No.

But according to reports, with bonuses, we have offered him approximately 110K per week.
 

Taricco the yid

Vital Football Hero
#4
80deg16minW - 27/2/2018 20:26

There would be individual targets as well as team targets.

And it would be understandable for Toby to leave if he wants guarantees. The converse of what you say is that Toby knew what he was signing when he joined Spurs and he has participated in the bonus program in almost all of that time.

Does he deserve more than he is getting? Undoubtedly.

Will we pay what other teams will? No.

But according to reports, with bonuses, we have offered him approximately 110K per week.
I'd hate to be a defender who has to earn his bonuses through clean sheets or goals scored. I wonder how many bonus clauses they have in their contracts.
 
#5
alpine74 - 27/2/2018 20:16

To ask me to let my wages be determined by whether Serge Aurier can successfully throw a ball in is comical ... yes, I agree it is a team sport but my individual contributions are sometimes blatant and measurable and shouldn't directly correlate to that of 23 other men, especially seeing as this is not the current norm with other teams or the way forward in football. i thought we all agreed this is a massive business. every profession has a pay scale. this just happens to be mine, it is unfair to ask me to accept 1/3 of that because it is higher than the average profession. none of you would do that.. you think singing my name one week will satiate me especially seeing as the very next week you could easily be doing the opposite as is known to happen on the regular. your loyalty is a myth. your singing is not worth double/triple my worth. or the snake oil being sold from the top.

thank you
Signed: any sensible human

In the case of Alderwiereld

Toby: I've already given your top draw/ world-class performances for the past three year for 1/3 the price... there are records to prove it. (best defense) the least you can do is balance out my wage during my tenure. and don't give me that we're building... I was told that the build would not interfere with player dealing or was that a lie.. if your confidence in the new stadium and future success is as you say it is.. (not that you need too but if you say funds are not available why not take an advance for the sake of stability and further ensuring that success. instead of you all debating on whether I'm replaceable and how you've managed without me... some loyalty... or is the furture success based on prudence.. isn't "to dare is to do" your mantra... but keep with the narrative that to increase my wage means your financial ruining... revenue increase on all fronts says otherwise... I'm 29 and can't wait on you. let your shareholders do the waiting for the 3-5 years you propose.
Players contracts are heavily incentivized to their direct performances, as well as team performances and merit payments for Cup progress and where we finish in the PL/CL...taken together, progress to the end stages of these competitions top 4 finish, can double 'take-home' pay and marketing payments.

Our Salary structure has remained consistent at around 50-55% of turnover (the PL own target range for salary payments as the benchmark for a well-run club and for where the club can avoid PL Fair play fines).

So our contract bonus payments tied to performance, work.

Signed a sensible Players agent/player and the Board.


As for Toby, any settlement that we come to that destroys balance between base payments and the relationship to bonus's will have a cascade effect on ALL player contracts. We could do that, and then let player salaries take up 70~% of revenues and be in breach of FFPR and dissipate transfers funds ...but maybe the fans wouldn't like that too much either...?

We've coped magnificently without him, and as one door closes, another opens - I'd prefer him to stay, but his agent(s) are making demands they know damn well are impossible for us to meet - believe me, agents only ever do that when they've already got the their move sorted (or hav etwo/three bidders with a handshake agreement) and they have secured themselves a massive Fee for doing so....

Even man City to keep within FFPR are now turning down demands from players and agents and even bigger transfer fees - it would almost seem that some have decided enough is enough....

~As always, the final decision is down to Toby, he could easily moderate his demands to what even he knows is within the clubs payment structure, but he/his agent have taken the stupidity of the Red bin dippers as the new benchmark ....

He may if he stays with us, earn £8-10 mill less over the next four years - that's not an easy sum to let go by - so I completely understand if he decides he has to move on...

His career earnings will only have been a paltry (with move fees) £16-24 mill, and if he stays with us, might only add another £20-24 mill to that, so can see exactly why he'd want to move on..

 

Littlest Hobo

Vital Squad Member
#6
Toby had a big move to athletico Madrid. I wonder how nice all that extra money is on the bench. Next 2-3yrs are important to him. It would be a shame for him to waste it for a few extra quid.
 

alpine74

Vital Youth Team
#7
you've made good points Player/agent/board (which btw all falls under Human being)

which is why this is not a straight forward and easy situation.

i was looking to counter the posting formula of disclaimer: "he is within his rights" followed by undermining/ bashing and even going so far as calling the player greedy.

none of us really know what Toby's true base number is. but i'd say anything less than a 150K base which is still below market price for his calibre should be unacceptable.

he is 28yr old CB.. prime age for that position.. they last longer. he has at least another 5 years left in him. 3mths out and we forget 3 solid years of service. he is partly responsible for straighten Jan out. and bedding Sanchez in. all without the plaudits of 1/2 a season Alli. the money he is asking will undoubtedly ALL be spent on a replacement and his wages cause value for money is hard to come by. (what's Jansen+ lorente combine wage and transfer cost compared to Mitchy) and respectfully your punt of Alfie Mawson is laughable.. even if he comes good that is 2-3 years to achieve that perfect click you already have...

after all these year of instability which was our #1 downfall it is still massively underrated by spurs fans... for the amount of flack Walker got its almost the end of the season and our right side still hasn't gotten it together.. (with is exactly what he brought to city, doing the the job two men he replaced, that 50m looks like incredible value for money) not saying that we could of kept him but... thats a whole season of instability on the right and a big reason we're not higher up the table the team quality overall is high which has been able to mask it. destabilising your CB because you've gotten 3 good months out of a jan/sanchez pairing is asinine. Dier needs to cut out that one major lapse in judgement every game to become a permanent fixture at CB.

Stability can be credited for the success of Sir Alex final seasons cause most of his player were either spent, or not that good. it can also be credited with Arsenals top 4 finishings before now.. he went into every season with not very good players(which had their fans fuming) but the were familiar with each other/ the system and the is half the value if not more of a big name signing.

We've had the same core of players for 3 years now except for the wanyama and Son coming later. this can not be overstated... with all the challenges we already face (5 team bettering us in the financial stakes a major factor) we have enough distractions with location changes and 3 "Homes" in three years. chopping and changing, especially the heart of your defence could spell disaster.

 

alpine74

Vital Youth Team
#8
lastly, we're in a different situation now. the money is there. revenue has/will increase 10fold. let that be reflected in the wages. all this waiting until it is 100 guaranteed is as spursex like to put it "penny shy and pound foolish"

I don't want to be misunderstood here... I am not a levy basher... i think the work he has done in incredible. and most would say that him being overly prudent is smart business sense and what has/will save us. but for me as a supporter of a FOOTBALL CLUB, there has been almost zero risks taken to ensure a modicum of glory( not a lift out of mediocracy) but some will paint you ungrateful for what you have but I'm only following our mantra, DARING. the new stadium is no guarantee that we will win trophies you have to seize your chance when it comes.

"to dare is to do" - there is very little of that.. I'm I to be grateful that they spent all the Bale money at once... name two moves that constitute a very bold dare i say risky move by THFC.
 

alpine74

Vital Youth Team
#9
Littlest Hobo - 28/2/2018 04:56

Toby had a big move to athletico Madrid. I wonder how nice all that extra money is on the bench. Next 2-3yrs are important to him. It would be a shame for him to waste it for a few extra quid.

Toby walks into any team defence in the world. such is his dominance this past three years. to undermine that is the very reason for him to say he owes you nothing especially at a heavily discounted rate. the only pair you could credibly make a case for is Ramos/Verrane and they've been **** all year.

he will sit on ones bench.. that athletic move was 6 years ago and coming from the dutch league. after that Southampton season some didn't see it but it has been proven he was already a juggernaut and came to us as the finish article... he has given more than we've given.. its time to even out the score..

also to say he knew what he was getting into is so ungrateful

these are hash truths but the truth...
 
#10
I am not ungrateful at all. But he signed a contract. Do I think he should be paid more now? Yes. But it wasn't secret that we had a rigid pay structure in place.

Added to that is the VVD idiocy that has distorted the market.

I don't blame Toby one bit for wanting to maximize his earning potential.

I'm one of those people that honour their commitments no matter what the cost and judge people by that standard.

However, breaking a contract these days is no different than divorce. It's easy. Too easy.


 

Taricco the yid

Vital Football Hero
#11
80deg16minW - 28/2/2018 15:38

I am not ungrateful at all. But he signed a contract. Do I think he should be paid more now? Yes. But it wasn't secret that we had a rigid pay structure in place.

Added to that is the VVD idiocy that has distorted the market.

I don't blame Toby one bit for wanting to maximize his earning potential.

I'm one of those people that honour their commitments no matter what the cost and judge people by that standard.

However, breaking a contract these days is no different than divorce. It's easy. Too easy.
Sissoko on 95k has distorted the market lol

Toby on 75k...its not right that sissoko earns 20k more.

 
#12
Taricco the yid - 28/2/2018 17:31

80deg16minW - 28/2/2018 15:38

I am not ungrateful at all. But he signed a contract. Do I think he should be paid more now? Yes. But it wasn't secret that we had a rigid pay structure in place.

Added to that is the VVD idiocy that has distorted the market.

I don't blame Toby one bit for wanting to maximize his earning potential.

I'm one of those people that honour their commitments no matter what the cost and judge people by that standard.

However, breaking a contract these days is no different than divorce. It's easy. Too easy.
Sissoko on 95k has distorted the market lol

Toby on 75k...its not right that sissoko earns 20k more.
Forgot about that. Absolutely.
 

Kinygerbils

Vital Champions League
#13
We are lucky that Kane came through the youth team so his base rate started so low.

Also having individual bonus such as goals is no way to run a team and would explain the lack of passing in the final third!
 

Taricco the yid

Vital Football Hero
#14
Kinygerbils - 28/2/2018 19:12

We are lucky that Kane came through the youth team so his base rate started so low.

Also having individual bonus such as goals is no way to run a team and would explain the lack of passing in the final third!
Didnt think of that kiny. Good point. No wonder kane is taking shot after shot lol. He is raking in the cash.

 
#15
Letting Walker go to city was a big mistake, he has doubled his money and won trophies with a direct rival. MP has to win a trophy this season, so at least spurs can offer players something that might make them think twice. MP's project is good for young players, however, older players want money and or glory. Coys
 

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
#16
80deg16minW - 28/2/2018 17:47

Taricco the yid - 28/2/2018 17:31

80deg16minW - 28/2/2018 15:38

I am not ungrateful at all. But he signed a contract. Do I think he should be paid more now? Yes. But it wasn't secret that we had a rigid pay structure in place.

Added to that is the VVD idiocy that has distorted the market.

I don't blame Toby one bit for wanting to maximize his earning potential.

I'm one of those people that honour their commitments no matter what the cost and judge people by that standard.

However, breaking a contract these days is no different than divorce. It's easy. Too easy.
Sissoko on 95k has distorted the market lol

Toby on 75k...its not right that sissoko earns 20k more.
Forgot about that. Absolutely.
but we've offered him more than that, he's the one who's not taken it. I'd imagine he's been offered 100k close to the beginning of the contract negotiations some time ago so I don't think he can bitch about his 75k.

I do agree with the point about stability... I wish we could get it done and just give him parity with Kane for now and healthy bonuses with a promise to raise his basic once CL is confirmed for next season...

but in a way he owes us nothing.

He was absolutely superb for Southampton, I seem to remember in his first league game for us he gave away a penalty (?) and said something like "I didn't make any mistakes last season so I'm annoyed that I've made one today" and it was accurate, and he didn't put a foot wrong for the rest of the season - Poch can take little credit for his development as he'd been doing it the 12 months before for a worse team. He's not Spurs through and through, he ditched Southampton at the last minute to sign for us instead as we offered more money and better status - why should we expect him to act differently now? They literally considered suing Atletico over him signing with us, so he'd obviously given them assurances before we gazumped so sadly he has form in chasing bigger cheque and bigger club over loyalty to a club who showed faith in him,
 
#17
I am told, and believe my info is accurate that Toby's base payments would equate to over £100k if he signed the new deal, with bonus's he has the possibility of earning around 40-50% more than that in a decent year - go all the way in the CL or finish top 4 and he, along with the other players might earn considerably more.

It's simple, Toby now has a reputation that has been gained with us as being one of the best in business (he didn't have this rep before) alot of that credit has to go to Poch for eliminating the huge number of errors he used to make at Athletico and Southampton - I personally remain unconvinced that this will continue to be the case if he is not playing with Vert alongside him.

But to some extent that's irrelevant.

His agent is making big demands and is asking for a 5 year deal, that's a huge commitment to a player who if we didn't sell him could sit on his deal until he is 34/35...

Along with that, even if he did sign a new deal, his agent will be looking for massive compensation for himself for not getting a very exciting slice of any transfer fee/signing on fee at a new club.

There are those who remain convinced that above all else he wants to get back to Spain (or Italy) where the climes are better and he can extend his career beyond what is expect in the PL...

Would I risk turning the squads deals and breaking our wages v revenues balance and taking a massive risk we will stay in the CL year after year?

As Conte said last week, the PL is the only league where you have 6 clubs chasing 4 places...


So, no, I would cash in on Toby, wish him luck and re-invest in a younger, hungrier player(s) that I believe Poch could improve yet again...

The integrity of our wage structure has to be maintained probably for at least the next 3 years - taking massive gambles now, just isn't the way Levy works.
 
#18
Kinygerbils - 28/2/2018 19:12

We are lucky that Kane came through the youth team so his base rate started so low.

Also having individual bonus such as goals is no way to run a team and would explain the lack of passing in the final third!
There isn't a top class striker in the PL that isn't bonused for goals scored...agents absolutely insist on it.