I.Q. | Page 2 | Vital Football

I.Q.

mike_field said:
But generically those with a better grounding in maths/wider experience will always perform better. l
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Is that because the IQ tests are “easier” for maths whizzes, or because those with a general higher IQ can cope better with more complex maths problems than the rest of us?

I definitely think there is validity in IQ as a gauge of individuals general and natural intellect... but as mentioned earlier there is a difference between IQ and knowledge which can be learnt through teaching and experience which is probably more important in day to day life
 
I.Q. is really only the measurement of how well and quickly a person can assimilate certain types of knowledge that are useful in today's western society.
There are places and culture's where that knowledge is useless.
That being said, if you put a person with a relatively high I.Q. in an environment that is completely alien to them and ask them to survive, the chances are that they will succeed, to a point.
If you do the same with a person of low I.Q. the chances are that they will fail.

And that is saying nothing detrimental about anyone with a lower I.Q. for there are circumstances where they will out perform those with the higher I.Q.
 
1958Villan said:
I.Q. is really only the measurement of how well and quickly a person can assimilate certain types of knowledge that are useful in today's western society.
There are places and culture's where that knowledge is useless.
That being said, if you put a person with a relatively high I.Q. in an environment that is completely alien to them and ask them to survive, the chances are that they will succeed, to a point.
If you do the same with a person of low I.Q. the chances are that they will fail.

And that is saying nothing detrimental about anyone with a lower I.Q. for there are circumstances where they will out perform those with the higher I.Q.
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Like MMA and American football?
 
The really interesting thing for me is that those with low IQ have a much higher rate of criminality. When you normalise by IQ instead of race, black people and white people are just as likely to go to prison.

It also corresponds to the view of a prison governor whose book I read (Donal Lonnegan - The Governor). He was extraordinarily compassionate towards the prisoners. He believed that they were people who didn't know how to function in society and got bounced down through the system until they ended up in prison.
 
david-avfc said:
Is that because the IQ tests are “easier” for maths whizzes, or because those with a general higher IQ can cope better with more complex maths problems than the rest of us?

I definitely think there is validity in IQ as a gauge of individuals general and natural intellect... but as mentioned earlier there is a difference between IQ and knowledge which can be learnt through teaching and experience which is probably more important in day to day life
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I have 2 Maths Degrees and I do extremely well on IQ tests. They are basically built for people like me.

They are designed by white, educated people for white, educated people. There are many studies that say they don't really reflect all types of intelligence.

If you don't receive the type of education we provide from an early age, then you will struggle with them, which is why they do reflect badly on some groups.
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 said:
I have 2 Maths Degrees and I do extremely well on IQ tests. They are basically built for people like me.

They are designed by white, educated people for white, educated people. There are many studies that say they don't really reflect all types of intelligence.

If you don't receive the type of education we provide from an early age, then you will struggle with them, which is why they do reflect badly on some groups.
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What's an example of a type of intelligence which performs badly on IQ tests?
 
According to Harvard, two types of intelligence are covered by the IQ test, language and logical.

That leaves 6 types not covered, Musical intelligence, Bodily kinesthetic Intelligence, Interpersonal intelligence, Intrapersonal intelligence, Naturalist intelligence and Spatial intelligence.

It's not just that. IQ measures a certain way we are taught to think. If you aren't raised in this environment, the tests are very tough.
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 said:
According to Harvard, two types of intelligence are covered by the IQ test, language and logical.

That leaves 6 types not covered, Musical intelligence, Bodily kinesthetic Intelligence, Interpersonal intelligence, Intrapersonal intelligence, Naturalist intelligence and Spatial intelligence.

It's not just that. IQ measures a certain way we are taught to think. If you aren't raised in this environment, the tests are very tough.
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Hasn't multiple intelligences been debunked?

It was very popular in teaching when I started.
 
Why would it be debunked? Isn't it obvious?

I'm great at logic and structured thinking, but not very good at languages, music, art etc. My friend is an interpreter and speaks a dozen languages or so. She wouldn't do that well on an IQ test. Is she not intelligent?
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 said:
Why would it be debunked? Isn't it obvious?

I'm great at logic and structured thinking, but not very good at languages, music, art etc. My friend is an interpreter and speaks a dozen languages or so. She wouldn't do that well on an IQ test. Is she not intelligent?
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I'm sure that she would do very well on the language part. She must have developed enormous mental flexibility to use all of the different grammatical structures across all of the languages she speaks.

One of the curious things about IQ tests is that people who do well in one mental task tend to do well in them all. That indicates that there is a more uniform form of intelligence rather than lots of different types.
 
I'm afraid it doesn't seem tot work like that. she can't even do a Sudoku!!!

The IQ test is skewed to a very small type of thinking. It's fun, but little more then that.
 
To me the most important part of that was "But none are as well-studied, or as reliably predictive, as IQ. "

Nobody has given enough time to an alternative way of measuring.

If you give the test to an African living in a Nigerian village, they do badly. Take that same person and educate them in Western methods, and they do better. It's almost as much a measure of education as intelligence.

Don't get me wrong, in the absence of something better it will have to do. I just know that it has benefited me greatly, rather dis-proportionally. People far smarter than me have been penalised by the way we view intelligence.
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 said:
To me the most important part of that was "But none are as well-studied, or as reliably predictive, as IQ. "

Nobody has given enough time to an alternative way of measuring.

If you give the test to an African living in a Nigerian village, they do badly. Take that same person and educate them in Western methods, and they do better. It's almost as much a measure of education as intelligence.

Don't get me wrong, in the absence of something better it will have to do. I just know that it has benefited me greatly, rather dis-proportionally. People far smarter than me have been penalised by the way we view intelligence.
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I wonder about the correlation between education and IQ. It's possible that well educated people do better because they have been trained to think in a way that corresponds to the tests but it's also likely that smarter people end up being better educated because they are smarter.

In the limited instances where twins or triplets were separated at birth and raised in different circumstances, their IQ has remained consistent suggesting that IQ is more nature than nurture but there are very few of these cases to study.

It's possible that rural Nigerians perform badly on IQ tests because having a high IQ gives very limited advantages in that situation whereas those living in big cities gain huge advantages by having higher IQs.

The racial component of IQ is very uncomfortable and leads a lot of people to steer clear of the subject but the correlations between high IQ and relative success mean that it can't be dismissed easily.

It's such a fascinating topic with so many applications and variables that it's almost endless.
 
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