I.Q. | Vital Football

I.Q.

BodyButter

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
A few of things Jordan Peterson said recently really shocked me and made me question some of my values.

These aren't in any order:

1) IQ and consciousness (how hard working you are) are the biggest predictors of success in life.

2) IQ is relatively fixed and the biggest predictor is genetic.

3) If you have an IQ of below 85, you won't be able to follow written instructions. That's 15% of the population.

4) Prisons are overwhelmingly populated with those with low IQ.

I grew up believing that everyone was equal and that the only things that separated us was hard work and luck. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case and a huge portion of our success in life is determined by our parents' IQ.

It also leaves a large portion of the population who will always struggle at the bottom. These are people who will pretty much always make bad choices and find life difficult.

Assuming all of the above is true, shouldn't we be using this information to make better decisions about our societies?
 
I think a different way. Everyone is equal in terms of how they should be treated and what they should be entitled to, but everyone's capacity is different as is their background etc.

IQ tests are biased in their own right and intelligence per se shouldn't be overly decided by presumed IQ or ability to read/write etc - but it is about finding 'your strength' in life and realising limitations.

Football is a good example, how many players have to work 150% to have a good career compared to those with God given talent - yet the second bunch often don't make it because they think they only have to put 50% of the effort in.

It's also the problem when it comes to voting and the idea of IQ tests to qualify you to do so...the sweeping generalisations that would then come from that to exclude folks from voting because you know they would never vote for you etc etc.

On the flipside Donald Trump is a good example of somebody who shouldn't be allowed to vote, let alone become President.
 
BodyButter said:
A few of things Jordan Peterson said recently really shocked me and made me question some of my values.

These aren't in any order:

1) IQ and consciousness (how hard working you are) are the biggest predictors of success in life.

2) IQ is relatively fixed and the biggest predictor is genetic.

3) If you have an IQ of below 85, you won't be able to follow written instructions. That's 15% of the population.

4) Prisons are overwhelmingly populated with those with low IQ.

I grew up believing that everyone was equal and that the only things that separated us was hard work and luck. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case and a huge portion of our success in life is determined by our parents' IQ.

It also leaves a large portion of the population who will always struggle at the bottom. These are people who will pretty much always make bad choices and find life difficult.

Assuming all of the above is true, shouldn't we be using this information to make better decisions about our societies?
Click to expand...

It's a funny one. I've seen something recently where I.Q tests may not be as accurate as thought, as there are 3 factors that define intelligence. If I can find it I'll post it, but I must read it again because it could be some bogus agenda driven article diminishing I.Q tests. As Dan has pointed out already, these days every kid gets a winners medal at the sports day.

I remember getting in trouble in primary school for pointing out that some people are stupid. Looking back I was dead right!

The problem is what do we do with the information in regards to bettering society? Discriminate against lesser I.Q scores? I know a lot of incredibly thick bastards but they have hearts of gold.

As Mike said, a buffoon like Trump can become president, but I would go as far as saying most political leaders are pieces of shit one way or the other, I don't see much intelligence anywhere. They may have high I.Qs but what does it matter if they're so easily corrupted like many of them are?

Rhetorical questions of course, not expecting you to answer them BB, but do you have a link for what JP was on about? I do have a lot of time for him, he certainly makes you think.
 
There are more out there. One of the most contentious things with IQ is that blacks and Mexicans score badly on IQ tests. Their average scores are way lower than white people's average scores. That has led the PC brigade to label IQ tests as racist. Of course, they ignore the fact that East Asians and Jews score higher than white people on average.

A scientist called Charles Murray got excommunicated from the scientific community for discovering this.
 
I love listening to Peterson, the problem is no one has the intellectual capacity to debate him properly. Instead, the PC brigade and far leftists just label him as "the new Hitler" etc. It's pathetic, it really is. And a sign of the times we live in. No time for conversation or debate.

Are all Mexicans and blacks less intelligent? No. Is there something in the research to be looked at and analysed, and take into account many factors to why this may be the case? Yes.

That to me would be progress. But fuck progress. Let's boil everything down to skin colour/gender/sexual orientation/religion and battle it out at the Oppression Olympics to see who deserves the gold medal for most victimized.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
It's a funny one. I've seen something recently where I.Q tests may not be as accurate as thought, as there are 3 factors that define intelligence. If I can find it I'll post it, but I must read it again because it could be some bogus agenda driven article diminishing I.Q tests. As Dan has pointed out already, these days every kid gets a winners medal at the sports day.

I remember getting in trouble in primary school for pointing out that some people are stupid. Looking back I was dead right!

The problem is what do we do with the information in regards to bettering society? Discriminate against lesser I.Q scores? I know a lot of incredibly thick bastards but they have hearts of gold.

As Mike said, a buffoon like Trump can become president, but I would go as far as saying most political leaders are pieces of shit one way or the other, I don't see much intelligence anywhere. They may have high I.Qs but what does it matter if they're so easily corrupted like many of them are?

Rhetorical questions of course, not expecting you to answer them BB, but do you have a link for what JP was on about? I do have a lot of time for him, he certainly makes you think.
Click to expand...

IQ tests do favour those with a more educated background, you only need to look at the questions to determine that. It's a good guide, but only a guide...somebody in Mensa might nail the IQ test whilst your local mechanic bombs it. Who would you trust to patch the car up to get you home before you get it properly fixed etc.

Intelligence isn't always textbook.

Then as you say, the potential ease of discrimination (especially politically - we see it in the US with voter surpression mainly aimed at blacks and minorities anyway) based on it as a low IQ doesn't always equal low intelligence.

If anything given the way the world has changed in many ways we need a new 'IQ test' that is actually based in simple standards, empathy and understanding rather than technical and mathematical excellence.
 
There is a difference between IQ and knowledge. Someone who has a lower IQ can spend years mastering a specific area and become very knowledgeable and successful in that specific area.. whereas IQ measures deeper level of logical thinking which probably isn’t directly related to day to day or work life

Whenever I have done these type of tests most of the questions are based on recognising patterns and using logical reasoning to work out the next sequence, whether that’s numbers based or more often it’s shapes / patterns which actually have no maths element to them at all.

Mike - There is actually a theory called “emotional intelligence” in psychology and business management theory which is considered potentially as or even more important than standard IQ in measuring career success. It is not discussed as regularly as IQ but it is a concept that is definitely around, I remember studying it at university
 
But generically those with a better grounding in maths/wider experience will always perform better. IQ at its core is nothing more than wider knowledge, understanding and application. It's always been its biggest flaw as a 'tool' to distinguish.

There are obviously exceptions to the rule when you go nature/nurture route but it does have some effect.

The phrase rings a bell (maybe my old Psych days?), but I can't profess to know much about it. Might take a gander later if I can find time.

Has its role to play I'm just reticent - given the chat - to give it my full backing lol
 
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