Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
Remain wasn't loathesome to an under-represented half of the electorate. You are consistently exaggerating the leave vote
Here we go!
- Thread starter Pearced
- Start date
JC21
Vital Football Hero
The leave vote was the majority of people who voted. The leave vote was the VAST majority of constituencies. Can you at least accept that?
Do you think the Tories got lucky by making a Brexit election?
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
The Tories tried to make it wholly about Brexit and succeeded in doing so with Brexit inclined voters.
Corbyn tried to make it about more than Brexit, and he succeeded- but only with remain inclined voters.
The consequence was huge brexit loyalty from one half, and another half that was willing to look beyond the referendum and vote according to their dislike/mistrust of the Labour leader
JC21
Vital Football Hero
But two thirds of the constituencies voted to leave, so if you are going to win a general election, with our political system, you have to forget the popular vote and target accordingly. Ya not stupid, Pope, putting aside all our arguments, so surely you can see that. If this wasn't the case then Starmer would be arguing how bad Brexit is now, surely?
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
Of course I can see the constituency argument, and I concede you have a point. That said, constituencies weren't counted in the referendum so calculations are a tough estimate rather than an official total; estimates are around 60-64% voting leave.
But it assumes that the 2019 map is exactly as it was three years before. It assumes that all brexit voters in 2016 remained hugely loyal (when many had been very much on the fence and tipped over into the "let's see what happens with change" vote).
But even assuming all that, Corbyn was still better off going for the remain vote rather than trying a late, unconvincing entry into the saturated Brexit vote market. Corbyn made his decision in 2016 to campaign for remain. He didn't have to. He tied himself to that. He was still better chasing after the remain half of the vote even if we accept your constituency argument
Torygraph article hahahaha
da fuq
Vital Champions League
JC21
Vital Football Hero
Of course he wasn't better off chasing that half as it was concentrated in fewer (one third) of constituencies. If it was the right thing to do then it would be the right thing to do now. Why doesn't Starmer make Labour the party of rejoin?
Strett
Vital Football Hero
The vaccines.
Bremen Tree
Vital 1st Team Regular
I just goes to show that they did not fully understand what Brexit meant. It was either ignorance, arrogance or both that gave people the impression that the UK could leave the club but still have all the benefits. On second thoughts it ignorance based on the disinformation drip fed by the government and its media.
#easiestdealinhistory
Bremen Tree
Vital 1st Team Regular
Stretts is renowned on this thread for his turd polishing techniques
radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
No he wasnt, he was the shadow minister responsible for enacting Party policy. The membership voted and starmer was the manager.
You do realise that brexit is a neo liberal project aimed at cutting us loose to facilitate corporate competitiveness
radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
Its your only straw and its not true is it
radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
Go tell the exporters, farmers, fisherman etc etc.
Strett
Vital Football Hero
Peter Tiede, chief political reporter for Bild, the German daily...
Oh, how we Germans made fun of those strange Brexit birds with the weird Euro-populist Boris Johnson at their head. Marching out of the EU. Ridiculous! Well, they’ll soon see what they’re left with. Without Europe. All alone.
Now we see it. All of us — 83 million Germans, and all of Europe — undersupplied with vaccines, left lagging behind not only the US and Canada but also Britain! Of all the people, it was Johnson who got it right: he ordered vaccines for the British in time, generously and sufficiently. In surplus!
And we? We have done everything wrong and are struggling with a vaccination disaster. Germany, of all countries! Industrial power, clever nation, kings of cleanliness and order. We screwed up. We ordered too little, too late. We were too stingy, too lame. As a result, Poland and Hungary are already wondering what on earth the EU is all about.
In Germany, vaccination appointments for the elderly have had to be cancelled, if they actually got any at all. There is chaos in the land of order. We are confused. Self-doubt leads to anger: we will not have vaccinated 70 per cent of Germans before the autumn. And that is the best-case scenario.
This is devastating on a human level for the people who urgently need the vaccine and for those who will die because they did not get it in time. It’s also devastating on a political level: the US launched the biggest vaccine procurement programme in history last April and the UK started ordering soon after that. Johnson negotiated as tough as nails and paid well for them.
And what did the EU do? It created the biggest confidence-destroying programme in its history. On top of this, Brussels and the governments of the EU states have managed to confirm the old prejudice of a sluggish Europe. Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, denies all blame. Whistling loudly in the dark and thus damaging even further any confidence in her ability to run the EU. Music to the ears of the populists and anti-democrats.
Von der Leyen started a dispute with the vaccine supplier Astrazeneca, which was supposed to look daredevilish but was just dumb. She has disgraced Europe.
As Germany’s defence minister, she had already failed miserably in the procurement of helicopters, aircraft and weapons. Angela Merkel ordered her away to the European Commission. Just as Europe has been doing for decades with its discarded political personnel: disposed of like nuclear waste in the final repository of Brussels. That is the story that Johnson has told the British again and again. He, the European populist. Now, we agree with him.
Worse still, Von der Leyen has either knowingly lied to 447 million Europeans or didn’t know what she was talking about. Both are intolerable.
The EU’s contract with Astrazeneca reveals that the commission negotiated badly and did not secure any binding rights. It did not do what it is supposed to do: take care of our Europe. And our 27 governments either did not intervene or intervened too late.
The contract with Astrazeneca and the vaccination disaster are a declaration of bankruptcy for Brussels, an indictment of the 27 member states. An insult for us Europeans and especially for convinced Europeans like me. And the fact that we in Germany can only vaccinate at a snail’s pace, that we are left behind by countries like Bahrain or the United Arab Emirates, is our humiliation. Especially when we look at the island that once belonged to our EU.
It is embarrassing because now we are the fools.
Oh, how we Germans made fun of those strange Brexit birds with the weird Euro-populist Boris Johnson at their head. Marching out of the EU. Ridiculous! Well, they’ll soon see what they’re left with. Without Europe. All alone.
Now we see it. All of us — 83 million Germans, and all of Europe — undersupplied with vaccines, left lagging behind not only the US and Canada but also Britain! Of all the people, it was Johnson who got it right: he ordered vaccines for the British in time, generously and sufficiently. In surplus!
And we? We have done everything wrong and are struggling with a vaccination disaster. Germany, of all countries! Industrial power, clever nation, kings of cleanliness and order. We screwed up. We ordered too little, too late. We were too stingy, too lame. As a result, Poland and Hungary are already wondering what on earth the EU is all about.
In Germany, vaccination appointments for the elderly have had to be cancelled, if they actually got any at all. There is chaos in the land of order. We are confused. Self-doubt leads to anger: we will not have vaccinated 70 per cent of Germans before the autumn. And that is the best-case scenario.
This is devastating on a human level for the people who urgently need the vaccine and for those who will die because they did not get it in time. It’s also devastating on a political level: the US launched the biggest vaccine procurement programme in history last April and the UK started ordering soon after that. Johnson negotiated as tough as nails and paid well for them.
And what did the EU do? It created the biggest confidence-destroying programme in its history. On top of this, Brussels and the governments of the EU states have managed to confirm the old prejudice of a sluggish Europe. Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, denies all blame. Whistling loudly in the dark and thus damaging even further any confidence in her ability to run the EU. Music to the ears of the populists and anti-democrats.
Von der Leyen started a dispute with the vaccine supplier Astrazeneca, which was supposed to look daredevilish but was just dumb. She has disgraced Europe.
As Germany’s defence minister, she had already failed miserably in the procurement of helicopters, aircraft and weapons. Angela Merkel ordered her away to the European Commission. Just as Europe has been doing for decades with its discarded political personnel: disposed of like nuclear waste in the final repository of Brussels. That is the story that Johnson has told the British again and again. He, the European populist. Now, we agree with him.
Worse still, Von der Leyen has either knowingly lied to 447 million Europeans or didn’t know what she was talking about. Both are intolerable.
The EU’s contract with Astrazeneca reveals that the commission negotiated badly and did not secure any binding rights. It did not do what it is supposed to do: take care of our Europe. And our 27 governments either did not intervene or intervened too late.
The contract with Astrazeneca and the vaccination disaster are a declaration of bankruptcy for Brussels, an indictment of the 27 member states. An insult for us Europeans and especially for convinced Europeans like me. And the fact that we in Germany can only vaccinate at a snail’s pace, that we are left behind by countries like Bahrain or the United Arab Emirates, is our humiliation. Especially when we look at the island that once belonged to our EU.
It is embarrassing because now we are the fools.
Strett
Vital Football Hero
radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
This is just another opinion piece, no more right than u r but tbh scares the piss out of me, the rise of the right in Gemany looms large.
I don't know why they think thay're lagging behind Canada. Big pharma will have a lot to answer for in the coming years.
Strett
Vital Football Hero
TBF this was an article from a couple of weeks' ago, so it maybe out of date regarding figures.
