Has our recruitement been good enough?

[Rasenimp]

The point is that we (on here) don't know who we have tried to sign, who we missed, who nearly came and why they didn't, whether they went to Accy or anywhere else - we just don't know. We're not winning as many games as we supporters want and we know there are certain areas of the squad which we think are weak but we just don't know who has tried to do what in order to make things better.

So blaming our DoF, Recruitment Team, Board, Chairman etc, without knowing the full facts, is not a very constructive thing to do.

Everyone has opinions and we are all entitled to air them but without knowing the facts, it's all just guesswork

UTI

I guess blaming people is different to saying the recruitment hasn't been great though - that's a different point. There seems to be a lot more 'how dare you blame X' or 'blaming X is tedious' on here than people actually saying it (I'm not on other sites...), and most of the comments about the DoF position have been pretty tame or admitted they're not really sure. I've literally seen no one blame the board or chairman which would be insane.

A lot of the chat is about players we literally did sign not being up to scratch too, so you can actually talk about that!

And even then, plenty of people blame the manager or players who aren't great when things aren't going well (did last season) without knowing the full behind the scenes facts etc too - why's it different? What's the difference when we aren't getting value for money with some of the players we recruit?

 

[PerthImp]

To answer the question - we’ll know by next Wednesday

 

[Pompeyimp2]

I guess blaming people is different to saying the recruitment hasn't been great though - that's a different point. There seems to be a lot more 'how dare you blame X' or 'blaming X is tedious' on here than people actually saying it (I'm not on other sites...), and most of the comments about the DoF position have been pretty tame or admitted they're not really sure. I've literally seen no one blame the board or chairman which would be insane.

A lot of the chat is about players we literally did sign not being up to scratch too, so you can actually talk about that!

And even then, plenty of people blame the manager or players who aren't great when things aren't going well (did last season) without knowing the full behind the scenes facts etc too - why's it different? What's the difference when we aren't getting value for money with some of the players we recruit?

Indeed - where does the buck stop? The players/manager, the DoF and team that recruited the players, the board who recruited the DoF etc or the chairman who is in charge?

We're 16th in the league - if we had a bit more money and could pay higher wages, we might be 10th? If we spent a lot more money that we don't really have, then maybe we'd be 6th?

I dunno?

 

[Rasenimp]

Indeed - where does the buck stop? The players/manager, the DoF and team that recruited the players, the board who recruited the DoF etc or the chairman who is in charge?

We're 16th in the league - if we had a bit more money and could pay higher wages, we might be 10th? If we spent a lot more money that we don't really have, then maybe we'd be 6th?

I dunno?

I think this is so reductive though as it assumes we have the 16th biggest budget (I'm not convinced this is the case based on the financial data but we might not be loads above that) plus current form (last 8 we are 21st, last 12 20th - which definitely is lower than what our staff costs are relative to others)! It assumes we are getting absolute value for money based on what we spend.

The buck also doesn't necessarily have to stop anywhere in a thread where the question is, has the recruitment been good enough... like, the 21/22 summer I think the answer is a resounding no it wasn't and we had to spend to get out of it in Jan. But I think from what you're saying, your argument is - we can never know if the recruitment was good enough because we can never know who we actually tried to sign?

 

[cdhIMP]

I don’t know but perhaps it is easier to attract players to the entertainment metropolis of Manchester (North West) rather than the Fens.

A very valid point.

 

[Pompeyimp2]

I think this is so reductive though as it assumes we have the 16th biggest budget (I'm not convinced this is the case based on the financial data but we might not be loads above that) plus current form (last 8 we are 21st, last 12 20th - which definitely is lower than what our staff costs are relative to others)! It assumes we are getting absolute value for money based on what we spend.

The buck also doesn't necessarily have to stop anywhere in a thread where the question is, has the recruitment been good enough... like, the 21/22 summer I think the answer is a resounding no it wasn't and we had to spend to get out of it in Jan. But I think from what you're saying, your argument is - we can never know if the recruitment was good enough because we can never know who we actually tried to sign?

Indeed

Then there's the question of where we are in the overall scheme of thimgs - what are we trying to achieve this season, in respect of when we try to push on to the next level - when do we spend more to get nearer to that next level and are we cuirrently just treading water until the next big push?

Answer - We just don't know

 

[JAYIMP]

The only people who can answer the question is the Board.

So many variables and different ponds to fish in. Football is a results driven business but a financial drain on resources whether that’s players, infra, insurances, housing of players etc etc.

Revenues dictate the outlay and like most households we budget and cut our cloth where necessary. We should not expect the Board to continue to feed the beast that is LCFC indefinitely, that is not to say we should have strengthened the midfield in the summer. However, hindsight is a great thing. Perhaps players who previously didn’t have that much game time have now been given a chance and perhaps have come up short and we wait until summer to strengthen, who knows ? We need an experienced midfielder maybe two now to see us over the line, preferably on loan in terms of cost and quality.

Expectation management is needed all round.

,,The only people who can answer the question is the Board. "

I do agree with most of your post but I can't with the statement above.

As a fan you are not going obviously to be involved in many behind the scenes things that might affect and change your opinion. On top of that there is always that element of lottery involved in transfers. But all in all it is not as complicated as you seem to think. You can see effects of your recruitment week in week out.

If you are signing players who are going to perform well and maybe on top of that also have resale value and bring you some money (Toff, Edun, Scully) then your recruitment was good and people responsible did great job.

If lets say you buy or loan a player and it didn't work out (Nlundulu) you can say your recruitment team was simply unlucky.

At the same time if you are making 6 permanent signings in one window and not even one of them turn out to be good (like us in summer 2021) then it is clear that recruitment was piss poor and someone didn't do good job.

Speaking about the ,,people" behind recruitment I think it is a very valid question that some raised in their comments about what sort of advantage does it give really give us ??
Especially if clubs with smaller budgets, without recruitment teams and director of football are doing the same sort of business (if not better) as us.

One thing for sure I can't see any progress. Since our play off adventure we are going only one way. We are getting constantly worse.

 

[Spilsby52]

I saw this on twitter today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617967635639009280

 

[nlondonimp]

To answer the question - we’ll know by next Wednesday

Or, crucially, by the end of the season - or when we get to the mathematical safety line.

 

[Rasenimp]

I saw this on twitter today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617967635639009280

They don't seem to chime with our accounts? If we spent 6.236m on staff costs as per our accounts for 21/22, has that roughly been halved for a year? That doesn't seem right/not sure I understand what that first table is then, even if I can believe quite a few of those teams spend more than us.

I'm also not sure what years it is based off (league for 22/23 but don't have 22/23 accounts yet) and for a fair few of those teams I couldn't clearly see any staff costs when I looked earlier.

 

[Bucksimp]

I saw this on twitter today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617967635639009280

Not sure I'd treat anything that has Peterborough Town in it as gospel.

 

[Rasenimp]

I saw this on twitter today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617967635639009280

Oh wait no, I've found it. It's not based off our accounts it's based on one of those dodgy guess the wage sites. The figures match that.

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-league-one/lincoln-city/

I am very very sceptical any of this is accurate for any of the clubs tbh + it makes no allowances for loan costs/ % split. Like scraping a guess off football manager 2023 standard.

 

[German Imp]

,,The only people who can answer the question is the Board. "

I do agree with most of your post but I can't with the statement above.

As a fan you are not going obviously to be involved in many behind the scenes things that might affect and change your opinion. On top of that there is always that element of lottery involved in transfers. But all in all it is not as complicated as you seem to think. You can see effects of your recruitment week in week out.

If you are signing players who are going to perform well and maybe on top of that also have resale value and bring you some money (Toff, Edun, Scully) then your recruitment was good and people responsible did great job.

If lets say you buy or loan a player and it didn't work out (Nlundulu) you can say your recruitment team was simply unlucky.

At the same time if you are making 6 permanent signings in one window and not even one of them turn out to be good (like us in summer 2021) then it is clear that recruitment was piss poor and someone didn't do good job.

Speaking about the ,,people" behind recruitment I think it is a very valid question that some raised in their comments about what sort of advantage does it give really give us ??
Especially if clubs with smaller budgets, without recruitment teams and director of football are doing the same sort of business (if not better) as us.

One thing for sure I can't see any progress. Since our play off adventure we are going only one way. We are getting constantly worse.

I say that statement Jay, as I, like the rest of the fans have a view on recruitment but ultimately the Board know what parameters have been set for the recruitment team to work in and how much additional funds are available or more to the point, will be made available in addition to the budget set in the summer. It will be for the Board to decide if they are getting bang for their buck, they know the constraints the recruitment team are working to, we have no clue what conversations have taken place between the SLT.

 

[nlondonimp]

bang up to date talking point for this thread. Of the difficulties + many factors associated with recruitment.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64358264
based on this, was Everton’s recruitment poor? Was tottenham’s recruitment good?

 

[Rasenimp]

bang up to date talking point for this thread. Of the difficulties + many factors associated with recruitment.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64358264
based on this, was Everton’s recruitment poor? Was tottenham’s recruitment good?

I mean Everton's recruitment has been awful for ages, they don't have a head of recruitment at the moment (he went to Spurs)! Danjuma also spoke to the manager they then sacked in between him agreeing to join and signing the contract.

Missing out on a player is part and parcel of recruiting people. This is going to happen to pretty much every club including some of the big boys in our league who will have players pinched by bottom end Championship clubs. Good recruitment will be if Everton can identify and sign a good alternative. The evidence is that they probably won't- bad recruitment looks like signing Neal Maupay, Dele Alli, Salomon Rondon, Cenk Tosun, Gbamin, Dwight McNeil etc...

I guess my point is, it's daft to be like, is Everton's recruitment poor because they missed out on Danjuma in the same way our recruitment wouldn't be poor if we missed out on one individual midfielder or missed out on Morgan Whittaker on that last day of last summer. Everton's is poor because they've signed crap underperforming players for ages and the squad isn't good enough.

 

[collingham imps]

Of late modest at best - be interesting to know the cost of the recruitment team and the return on investment - need to get a wiggle on as we are getting closer to the witching hour

 

[57harry]

Well when your squad is bloated ,in terms of numbers,and lacking in quality then you have to say no. A lot of money has been spent on players that are not good enough.

 

[Jules]

Is this thread about our recruitment or the recruitment at Premier League clubs?

 

[nlondonimp]

I mean Everton's recruitment has been awful for ages, they don't have a head of recruitment at the moment (he went to Spurs)! Danjuma also spoke to the manager they then sacked in between him agreeing to join and signing the contract.

Missing out on a player is part and parcel of recruiting people. This is going to happen to pretty much every club including some of the big boys in our league who will have players pinched by bottom end Championship clubs. Good recruitment will be if Everton can identify and sign a good alternative. The evidence is that they probably won't- bad recruitment looks like signing Neal Maupay, Dele Alli, Salomon Rondon, Cenk Tosun, Gbamin, Dwight McNeil etc...

I guess my point is, it's daft to be like, is Everton's recruitment poor because they missed out on Danjuma in the same way our recruitment wouldn't be poor if we missed out on one individual midfielder or missed out on Morgan Whittaker on that last day of last summer. Everton's is poor because they've signed crap underperforming players for ages and the squad isn't good enough.

i wasn’t saying that - I was referring to this specific signing. Everton got very close to signing a player, and the same player goes elsewhere at the last minute - for many reasons. The player is good enough for Tottenham, so presumably this would have been a good piece of recruitment by Everton. But they end up with nothing, so continue to be seen as poor recruiters, so the difficulties they have in recruiting continue!
Re; bold I think you are saying our recruitment is poor. As you have been saying we have signed underperforming midfielders for ages and our squad is not good enough.

 

[Rasenimp]

i wasn’t saying that - I was referring to this specific signing. Everton got very close to signing a player, and the same player goes elsewhere at the last minute - for many reasons. The player is good enough for Tottenham, so presumably this would have been a good piece of recruitment by Everton. But they end up with nothing, so continue to be seen as poor recruiters, so the difficulties they have in recruiting continue!
Re; bold I think you are saying our recruitment is poor. As you have been saying we have signed underperforming midfielders for ages and our squad is not good enough.

I think I'm in trouble for being off topic again but yeah, trying to make the direct parallel that we may have missed out on targets (like Everton) and that may be unfortunate, but that doesn't make recruitment as a whole good or bad or unlucky. There will be setbacks but have to judge it on final product and signing wise I think summer 2021/the midfield recruitment has been poor and meant we are fire fighting in January twice in a row.

And our recruitment is still better than Everton's .