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Gorbachev

Made in Wigan said:
How is Trump to blame for this??? The left wing media attacked him over every word, every action and installed this cognitively challenged moron in his place. The odds on this invasion happening with him in charge would have been far longer. Neither are fit for that office, but Trump would have been far better to deal with these foreign crises.

As for Johnson he’s the only one of the main European leaders who didn’t go scurrying over to Moscow to be taken in by Putins propaganda and come back promising peace. He’s at least been consistent in his approach over this crisis. God forbid the consequences if he hadn’t seen off commie Corbyn who’s that deluded he’s now blaming all this on NATO, given his long held desire to see it disbanded. With him charge he’d have probably deployed British troops to support the Russians. And let’s not forget Starmer serving in his cabinet for three years and campaigning to get him elected. Across the Western political spectrum there is such a dearth of talent.
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They are just waiting for you to get involved, with your diplomatic skills it should be no problem for you to sort out this little local difficulty
 
moonay said:
I didn't say Trump was to blame for this ....... but for some reason, you referenced Afghanistan. Biden had little choice by to deliver what had already been set up by Trump ... or had you forgot? Bear in mind, Trump has called previously, and is calling right now, Putin to be a genius. Not a tyrant. Not a dictator. Not a warmonger. A bloody genius! FFS, Trump didn't dare call Trump out even when his own intelligence staff told him he was guilty of stuff (remember when he "fluffed his words" !!)

Johnson wanted to go to Moscow, but Putin had no need to see him, so could only get as far as ending Liz bloody Truss. Hell, don't make a separate reality.

And so, we switch to a wholly unrelated issue ....Corbyn. What the hell has he to do with anything, and who's defending him anyway?

As for Starmer, I fully agree he had to be somewhat two-faced in supporting (but not on NATO) and sitting alongside Corbyn, but bloody hell, from some of his recent speeches in the Commons, Johnson isn't fit to be his fag ... or rather, maybe he is.
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The Afghan withdrawal wasn’t the one proposed by Trump. The Afghan forces would have continued to be supported with air power and a smaller troop footprint. The Taliban couldn’t believe their luck when he decided to just evacuate overnight. It was a catastrophic decision of which this invasion is just one of the consequences. Putin has played most for fools and to that end it was genius even if I disagree with it. Biden has been suckered in and once again left looking incompetent and overwhelmed

What has Corbyn got to do with this? Well for starters you voted for Labour and thus to see him as PM. Despite your unhealthy hated for Boris he saw this bloke off and the consequences of not doing so is now all too apparent. Starmer sought to get him elected and his judgement is irreparably damaged.
 
moonay said:
I didn't think you were so gullible MiW. "Incrementally" ! Bloody hell, his own guys with specific knowledge (Tugendhat was brilliant) told him he was way short of what needed to be done.

Is it possible that he's too mixed up in it all? ...... I honestly bloody hope not.
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What is gullible about punishing a country that hadn’t then fully invaded when there was still an opportunity to avert it. It’s called pragmatism. What is gullible is to expect the sanctions proposed would seriously have deterred him. As for thinking Johnson is now somehow mixed up in this is just a left wing conspiracy theory you seem desperate to be true. So please tell us how you think he is involved?
 
Putin's money used to destabilise western democracy
Trump
Brexit campaigns, Aaron Banks as a conduit for funds to the 2 Leave campaigns (Darren Grimes and funny money via the DUP)
Russian funding of Tory Party, MPs
Carrie Johnson a founder of the Conservative Friends of Russia
Cummings first job was a 3 year airline startup in Russia??

Oh and to be fair, the love of Russian money laundering in the City started under New Labour

The West under estimated Putin
 
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Made in Wigan said:
The Afghan withdrawal wasn’t the one proposed by Trump. The Afghan forces would have continued to be supported with air power and a smaller troop footprint. The Taliban couldn’t believe their luck when he decided to just evacuate overnight. It was a catastrophic decision of which this invasion is just one of the consequences. Putin has played most for fools and to that end it was genius even if I disagree with it. Biden has been suckered in and once again left looking incompetent and overwhelmed

What has Corbyn got to do with this? Well for starters you voted for Labour and thus to see him as PM. Despite your unhealthy hated for Boris he saw this bloke off and the consequences of not doing so is now all too apparent. Starmer sought to get him elected and his judgement is irreparably damaged.
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Eh? Of course it was. Trump committed them to timescales and everything.

Your Corbyn argument is beyond belief.
 
daleks.at.the.monaco said:
They are just waiting for you to get involved, with your diplomatic skills it should be no problem for you to sort out this little local difficulty
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Perhaps they should send you. I think you and that mentally challenged madman would be on the same wavelength. Either that or he’d be too busy pissing his sides at you he may call it off!
 
Made in Wigan said:
What is gullible about punishing a country that hadn’t then fully invaded when there was still an opportunity to avert it. It’s called pragmatism. What is gullible is to expect the sanctions proposed would seriously have deterred him. As for thinking Johnson is now somehow mixed up in this is just a left wing conspiracy theory you seem desperate to be true. So please tell us how you think he is involved?
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I think you've just proven your gullibility with your first sentence.

As for Johnson ...... Russia report ..... 2 years ago ....... forgotten? Aye, I thought so.
 
moonay said:
Eh? Of course it was. Trump committed them to timescales and everything.

Your Corbyn argument is beyond belief.
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A timescale can be moved and his proposal was nothing like that implemented by Biden. It was a humiliating cluster fuck.

As for Corbyn it’s entirely relevant. It was a choice between that Marxist and everything that would have entailed or the Conservatives. You went with the left wing extremists.
 
This Russia Report about the extent of the influence of Russian cash on British democracy.

Was it ever published?

Don't the Tories have a history of appeasement.

Did anyone see the joint select committee, when Tugenhat had a go at Johnson about low defence spending. Johnson had a go back saying all you want is tanks, stating they are outdated.
Remind me what are Russia using to invade Ukraine.
 
moonay said:
I think you've just proven your gullibility with your first sentence.

As for Johnson ...... Russia report ..... 2 years ago ....... forgotten? Aye, I thought so.
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Im afraid your own gullibility is showing through here. The talk of sanctions did nothing to deter him and now he’s invaded its more proportionate to ensure they are harsher. Go all in beforehand and now he’s invaded what next? Do nothing because you’ve already blown your load?

There is a thing called national security and not everything is for public consumption, which I suspect the report falls under. Instead of looking for a smoking gun to blame the PM for this invasion go for a walk, get some fresh air and find some perspective.
 
daleks.at.the.monaco said:
This Russia Report about the extent of the influence of Russian cash on British democracy.

Was it ever published?

Don't the Tories have a history of appeasement.

Did anyone see the joint select committee, when Tugenhat had a go at Johnson about low defence spending. Johnson had a go back saying all you want is tanks, stating they are outdated.
Remind me what are Russia using to invade Ukraine.
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We’ve no plans to invade a country the size of Ukraine so why would we need a vast number of tanks?
 
moonay said:
Eh? Of course it was. Trump committed them to timescales and everything.

Your Corbyn argument is beyond belief.
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Without wishing to jump into a political argument (they never end well on here) MiW is correct about the changes to Trumps withdrawal agreement by Biden caused the disastrous exit. It was meant to be on the 1st May and Biden despite being warned by all sides any change would see it collapse pushed it to September 11th and all bets were off.
 
Whenever there is a world 'security' problem.
Down here, close to Salisbury Plain, you generally hear the army getting up to operational speed (lots of ordinance, military traffic on the roads, aircraft)
There has been none of this in recent weeks
 
daleks.at.the.monaco said:
This Russia Report about the extent of the influence of Russian cash on British democracy.

Was it ever published?

Don't the Tories have a history of appeasement.

Did anyone see the joint select committee, when Tugenhat had a go at Johnson about low defence spending. Johnson had a go back saying all you want is tanks, stating they are outdated.
Remind me what are Russia using to invade Ukraine.
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Big difference is Russia share land borders with Ukraine... The UK is a Island.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Im afraid your own gullibility is showing through here. The talk of sanctions did nothing to deter him and now he’s invaded its more proportionate to ensure they are harsher. Go all in beforehand and now he’s invaded what next? Do nothing because you’ve already blown your load?

There is a thing called national security and not everything is for public consumption, which I suspect the report falls under. Instead of looking for a smoking gun to blame the PM for this invasion go for a walk, get some fresh air and find some perspective.
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You didn't properly read what I wrote did you?

Strong sanctions from the EU (and US) didn't work because Russia doesn't use Paris, Berlin, NY etc as their financial centre. They use London.
Our lightweight sanctions went nowhere as far as they ought to have done (as per numerous Tories).
Now, it's too late ....... whatever we do now has to make hm go backwards, ... a much more difficult challenge.
"Proportionate" ! :slap:

By the way, I think you should save your little speech on national security for the Defence Sec.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Without wishing to jump into a political argument (they never end well on here) MiW is correct about the changes to Trumps withdrawal agreement by Biden caused the disastrous exit. It was meant to be on the 1st May and Biden despite being warned by all sides any change would see it collapse pushed it to September 11th and all bets were off.
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So you're saying he delayed it by a little, making it just a mad rush, rather than the running round with hair on fire mad rush that it would have been .

I agree.
 
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