Gorbachev | Vital Football

Gorbachev

M

Made in Wigan

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Given today’s news that the paranoid, mentally unstable Russian President has ordered his military to invade Ukraine and has effectively threatened nuclear war should anyone stand up to him, I was thinking about his predecessors. Was it an urban myth that Mikhail Gorbachev once declared he supported the tics?
 
walgarthjohn said:
Sad day but nothing we can really do to stop it. We are more concerned with a drinks party. One thing Covid as done is that every one took there eyes of what was going on. Just keep our beakers out.
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John, PLEASE !!! The concern is NOT about the drinks party ..... it's about the fact that the PM of the country not only misled, but actually LIED in parliament.

From there, it then moves onto the issue of what else has he lied about? ... and why haven't the results from the Russia report ever been released? ... and to what degree is the PM exposed to blackmail from Russian (or indeed other) influences ?

It's NOT about a party.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Given today’s news that the paranoid, mentally unstable Russian President has ordered his military to invade Ukraine and has effectively threatened nuclear war should anyone stand up to him, I was thinking about his predecessors. Was it an urban myth that Mikhail Gorbachev once declared he supported the tics?
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I think it was an urban myth. He was only rumoured to be in the travelling party, I've never seen anything to definitively say he was.
 
So seems to be a mix of fact and fiction. Appears we played Metallist Kharkov and then rumour started Gorbachev decided to support us.

Quite poignant reading that link given Kharko(i)v is now under attack from Russia. Solidarity with the Ukrainian people.
 
walgarthjohn said:
Like I said think we have a lot more on our minds now with what’s going on or is the poor bloke to blame for this.
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To a degree, yes, he is partly to blame.

As we don't really know what's in the Russia report, there's little point in speculating whether or not any action should have been take as a result ... though it beggars belief that 2 years later, nothing's been released.

However, the PM/government received universal condemnation for the relatively lenient nature of the sanctions he placed on Russia even this last week. To be fair, the EU's were more stringent, yet Putin still went ahead, so Johnson's lightweight stance may have made no difference .... until we take into account that London is the source of all the Russian financing, and if WE'd taken a harsher approach, then it MAY have had much more of an impact.
 
walgarthjohn said:
Sad day but nothing we can really do to stop it. We are more concerned with a drinks party. One thing Covid as done is that every one took there eyes of what was going on. Just keep our beakers out.
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It’s part of a trend John. Basically the West has gone soft and devoted a disproportionate amount of time to nonsense such as gender pronouns, cancel culture, hysteria over statues of people that have been dead for centuries. It culminated in that senile idiot being installed in the White House. That embarrassing, unnecessary and incompetent withdrawal from Afghanistan basically emboldened the West’s enemies. In a year of his inauguration we now have China preparing to invade Taiwan, North Korea accelerating its test firing of nuclear capable missiles, Afghanistan once again a breeding ground for terrorists and this mentally challenged Russian madman now invading a sovereign European country. We now have Putin humiliating second rate politicians such as Macron and Schulz and our PM is under constant internal attacks to undermine him, though he appears the only one willing to stand upto him so far and was not taken in by his promises. However the package of our sanctions now needs to be much harsher and NATO needs to start reinforcing it’s eastern borders - and significantly too.
 
Made in Wigan said:
... our PM is under constant internal attacks to undermine him, though he appears the only one willing to stand upto him so far ......
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:rofl:

I could have gone along with most stuff in your post, even overlooking your pinning of the blame for stuff to Biden, rather than Trump, but this .......PMSL !!!
:LOL:

Release the report Boris.
 
Made in Wigan said:
So seems to be a mix of fact and fiction. Appears we played Metallist Kharkov and then rumour started Gorbachev decided to support us.

Quite poignant reading that link given Kharko(i)v is now under attack from Russia. Solidarity with the Ukrainian people.
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Gorbachev is the only commie leader in Soviet/Russian History with a heart.
His apparent "weakness" towards The West is what led to the then KGB Lieutenant Colonel Vladimir Putin to enter the political arena.

Gorbachev must be so angry & upset watching what is happening today, all his hard work has been systematically destroyed and flushed down the toilet 😔
 
moonay said:
To a degree, yes, he is partly to blame.

As we don't really know what's in the Russia report, there's little point in speculating whether or not any action should have been take as a result ... though it beggars belief that 2 years later, nothing's been released.

However, the PM/government received universal condemnation for the relatively lenient nature of the sanctions he placed on Russia even this last week. To be fair, the EU's were more stringent, yet Putin still went ahead, so Johnson's lightweight stance may have made no difference .... until we take into account that London is the source of all the Russian financing, and if WE'd taken a harsher approach, then it MAY have had much more of an impact.
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By the fuck, think I've heard it all now..

To a degree, yes, he is partly to blame....i know you don't like Boris but i think that's a stretch to far. We (UK) are a very small pawn these days in regards to any military power, political influence or capability to negotiate. I doubt old Putin doesn't even give us a second thought.
Anything else you mite want to blame on Boris while you have the stage....perhaps blame him for Magennis's lack of goals or maybe the vandalism caused at DW Stadium the other night. I know he's a clown, buffon & possibly liar but try & reign in your hatred of the man or at least keep it slightly real...😉
On a serious note I hope the Ukraine people are ok & this can be resolved quickly
 
moonay said:
:rofl:

I could have gone along with most stuff in your post, even overlooking your pinning of the blame for stuff to Biden, rather than Trump, but this .......PMSL !!!
:LOL:

Release the report Boris.
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Oh yes you should be head of the Nato peace keeping ....Release the report Boris...
That's going to stop Putin right in his tracks, he's gonna hightail it all the way back to the Kremlin with his vast army following him all the way back. Job done & you'll be granted a Nobel price for world peace....
 
moonay said:
:rofl:

I could have gone along with most stuff in your post, even overlooking your pinning of the blame for stuff to Biden, rather than Trump, but this .......PMSL !!!
:LOL:

Release the report Boris.
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How is Trump to blame for this??? The left wing media attacked him over every word, every action and installed this cognitively challenged moron in his place. The odds on this invasion happening with him in charge would have been far longer. Neither are fit for that office, but Trump would have been far better to deal with these foreign crises.

As for Johnson he’s the only one of the main European leaders who didn’t go scurrying over to Moscow to be taken in by Putins propaganda and come back promising peace. He’s at least been consistent in his approach over this crisis. God forbid the consequences if he hadn’t seen off commie Corbyn who’s that deluded he’s now blaming all this on NATO, given his long held desire to see it disbanded. With him charge he’d have probably deployed British troops to support the Russians. And let’s not forget Starmer serving in his cabinet for three years and campaigning to get him elected. Across the Western political spectrum there is such a dearth of talent.
 
jocklatic said:
By the fuck, think I've heard it all now..

To a degree, yes, he is partly to blame....i know you don't like Boris but i think that's a stretch to far. We (UK) are a very small pawn these days in regards to any military power, political influence or capability to negotiate. I doubt old Putin doesn't even give us a second thought.
Anything else you mite want to blame on Boris while you have the stage....perhaps blame him for Magennis's lack of goals or maybe the vandalism caused at DW Stadium the other night. I know he's a clown, buffon & possibly liar but try & reign in your hatred of the man or at least keep it slightly real...😉
On a serious note I hope the Ukraine people are ok & this can be resolved quickly
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I think I explained my reasoning quite fully there Jock. It wasn't just a throw away statement. I'm not sure if you actually read all the points, but he came under severe criticism from his own back benchers for not going far enough with the sanctions. It was powder puff stuff, giving them time to get their act in order before he did anything more serious. Hell, he even tried to say he was penalising Abramovic, which was (he's had to admit) was blatantly untrue.

ME keep it real? I give in, I really do.
 
jocklatic said:
Oh yes you should be head of the Nato peace keeping ....Release the report Boris...
That's going to stop Putin right in his tracks, he's gonna hightail it all the way back to the Kremlin with his vast army following him all the way back. Job done & you'll be granted a Nobel price for world peace....
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Jock, Jock, Jock, he should have released the report 2 years ago. It'll have bugger all impact on what's happening now, but I reckon it won't half shed light on what's been going on these past few years.

Will he? Of course he bloody well won't.
 
Made in Wigan said:
How is Trump to blame for this??? The left wing media attacked him over every word, every action and installed this cognitively challenged moron in his place. The odds on this invasion happening with him in charge would have been far longer. Neither are fit for that office, but Trump would have been far better to deal with these foreign crises.

As for Johnson he’s the only one of the main European leaders who didn’t go scurrying over to Moscow to be taken in by Putins propaganda and come back promising peace. He’s at least been consistent in his approach over this crisis. God forbid the consequences if he hadn’t seen off commie Corbyn who’s that deluded he’s now blaming all this on NATO, given his long held desire to see it disbanded. With him charge he’d have probably deployed British troops to support the Russians. And let’s not forget Starmer serving in his cabinet for three years and campaigning to get him elected. Across the Western political spectrum there is such a dearth of talent.
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I didn't say Trump was to blame for this ....... but for some reason, you referenced Afghanistan. Biden had little choice by to deliver what had already been set up by Trump ... or had you forgot? Bear in mind, Trump has called previously, and is calling right now, Putin to be a genius. Not a tyrant. Not a dictator. Not a warmonger. A bloody genius! FFS, Trump didn't dare call Trump out even when his own intelligence staff told him he was guilty of stuff (remember when he "fluffed his words" !!)

Johnson wanted to go to Moscow, but Putin had no need to see him, so could only get as far as ending Liz bloody Truss. Hell, don't make a separate reality.

And so, we switch to a wholly unrelated issue ....Corbyn. What the hell has he to do with anything, and who's defending him anyway?

As for Starmer, I fully agree he had to be somewhat two-faced in supporting (but not on NATO) and sitting alongside Corbyn, but bloody hell, from some of his recent speeches in the Commons, Johnson isn't fit to be his fag ... or rather, maybe he is.
 
moonay said:
I think I explained my reasoning quite fully there Jock. It wasn't just a throw away statement. I'm not sure if you actually read all the points, but he came under severe criticism from his own back benchers for not going far enough with the sanctions. It was powder puff stuff, giving them time to get their act in order before he did anything more serious. Hell, he even tried to say he was penalising Abramovic, which was (he's had to admit) was blatantly untrue.

ME keep it real? I give in, I really do.
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Sanctions are to implemented incrementally. There was still a hope the lunatic would pull back, so I think it was right not to go all in beforehand. We will see a a new raft of measures this afternoon. Ultimately for its geographic size it’s economy isn’t a risky that big. It cannot afford a prolonged war or sanctions. It won’t be immediate but the effect will be felt long term and he’ll come under internal pressure.

Personally I’m now of the mindset that the only deterrent will be military action. Not necessarily directly but perhaps on their proxy Belarus.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Sanctions are to implemented incrementally. There was still a hope the lunatic would pull back, so I think it was right not to go all in beforehand. We will see a a new raft of measures this afternoon. Ultimately for its geographic size it’s economy isn’t a risky that big. It cannot afford a prolonged war or sanctions. It won’t be immediate but the effect will be felt long term and he’ll come under internal pressure.

Personally I’m now of the mindset that the only deterrent will be military action. Not necessarily directly but perhaps on their proxy Belarus.
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I didn't think you were so gullible MiW. "Incrementally" ! Bloody hell, his own guys with specific knowledge (Tugendhat was brilliant) told him he was way short of what needed to be done.

Is it possible that he's too mixed up in it all? ...... I honestly bloody hope not.
 
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