Good rumour or complete bull plop? | Page 2 | Vital Football

Good rumour or complete bull plop?

Alderman Barnes said:
I generally agree with Buddha but I reckon he's putting the cart before the horse here.

Undoubtedly there's a big element of racism to the stick that Sterling gets, and Cole will certainly have suffered from terrible racism simply by dint of being black, but mainly he was disliked for the same reasons as the other players of the "golden" generation: the bling, the WAGS, the big-headedness, poor results for England and so on. It was the same with Terry, Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham.

He may have got it worse than others because of racism, but you can't say that those players' reputation wasn't at least partially justified by the way they behaved. I'd say what he mostly got was ridicule rather than abuse, but then again it's football, so you'll always get some berks who take things too far.
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Perhaps I am, AB. But then again I'm not sure.

You are right about, "the other players of the "golden" generation: the bling, the WAGS, the big-headedness, poor results for England and so on", but did the other four players receive a similar level of abuse?

Beckham certainly did after the 1998 WC sending off but he recovered from that, largely because of his performance and crucial equaliser against Greece in 2001. But did Terry, Lampard and Gerrard really suffer any similar abuse?

As Wayne says, Cole might have been guilty of the things you mention but I reckon he was (as Sterling is) more likely to receive abuse about those things because of the colour of his skin. Someone mentioned a feeling of 'entitlement'. In the eyes of a racist,a black man displaying an arrogance of entitlement is something that simply cannot be tolerated.
 
Buddha said:
You fckin what?

Is this a feeble attempt at humour or do you really believe that?!
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I believe he is being sarcastic. Plenty of people believe that it is impossible for black people to be racist and definitely not towards white people.

I can only be bothered to link one video:


But there are plenty of videos of people echo'ing the sentiment if you can be really bothered to search for them

You also have articles such as:

https://hellogiggles.com/news/racis...exist-in-america-and-heres-why-it-never-will/

Ditto for the videos and you can find plenty of articles if you can be bothered to search.
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
I believe he is being sarcastic. Plenty of people believe that it is impossible for black people to be racist and definitely not towards white people.
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I said earlier in the thread that anybody who abused Cole or abuses Sterling is either a racist or is stupid, or both.

Same goes for all of these "plenty of people" who you claim believe black people are incapable of racism, especially towards white people.

This is an insane position to hold and I can't imagine that anyone but a racist or an a idiot would think or say such a thing.
 
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ThreeSixes said:
It would be useful if you named names - white footballers who acted the same as Ashley Cole, but didn't get flack
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I would be useful if you had read what I wrote and understood it, rather putting the precise opposite of what I said into my mouth, cos white people are the real victims here, or something.
 
Alderman Barnes said:
I would be useful if you had read what I wrote and understood it, rather putting the precise opposite of what I said into my mouth, cos white people are the real victims here, or something.
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Sorry, I have misunderstood then. Can you explain it to me - what did you mean by "they did and it was" in response to "if a white player had done/said some of those things, it wouldn't have got a mention"? Who is "they" (I thought it was the white player) and what is "it" (I thought it was the not getting a mention).

Cheers (and sorry!).
 
Buddha said:
Same goes for all of these "plenty of people" who you claim believe black people are incapable of racism, especially towards white people.

This is an insane position to hold and I can't imagine that anyone but a racist or an a idiot would think or say such a thing.
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I posted up links of groups of people expressing that view that black people are incapable of racism. I take it you chose to ignore those links as the contents inside don't fit your own opinion?
 
I have been trying to think of someone else, either white or black, who did do exactly the same as Cole. i.e say that as much as £55k a week was insulting.

Usually details of outrageous "greedy" pay deals are leaked to the press by third parties, not quoted by the player himself in his own autobiography. IMO that would have caused ridicule whoever it concerned.

Sorry but I can not think of an exact comparison. Probably the closest would be Rooney asking Fergie for £300k a week to stay. I think he was heavily criticised for that but United fans soon forgave him when he signed the new contract whereas Cole went on to leave.
 
ThreeSixes said:
Sorry, I have misunderstood then. Can you explain it to me - what did you mean by "they did and it was" in response to "if a white player had done/said some of those things, it wouldn't have got a mention"? Who is "they" (I thought it was the white player) and what is "it" (I thought it was the not getting a mention).

Cheers (and sorry!).
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Sorry about that, maybe I should have expressed myself more clearly. I meant that around that time, white players did say and do equally stupid things and it did get reported in the papers (otherwise, to be honest, our gutter press would have been derelicting its duty).

At the same time, though, I was agreeing with Wayne that black players get worse stick, because racism gets added into the mix.

Black people can be bell-ends too, but racism makes the situation worse and kills nuanced thinking. Let's take a hypothetical situation:

Player A (white twat) does something arrogant/stupid/annoying. The tabloids pick up on it and he gets ridiculed, criticised or even abused for it. This has happened plenty of times.

Player B (black twat) does exactly the same thing that Player A did. The tabloids pick up on it and he gets the same ridicule, criticisism and abuse. This has also happened plenty of times.

The problem is, though, that racists exist. So in addition to the deserved reaction that Player A got, Player B gets a bit more because of racists piling onto him as well.

Player B (having been on the receiving end of racism for the whole of his life) might then, erronously but understandably, declare all criticism of him to be racist, because some of it undoubtably is.

As a result, people who don't like Player B because he's a dickhead feel that Player B or people purporting to defend him have called them racists, when they're not.

Actual racists then pounce on the whole thing to claim that Player B is playing the race card, and how come you can't get Robinson's Golliwogs anymore?

And that's how an innocent thread can turn into such a po-faced shitshow as this one.


Anyway, he's 38 years old now and his legs will have gone.
 
Anyone can be a racist. I happen to think we all are and self-checking is a healthy practice. Some try to argue that oppressed people cannot be racist. This is nonsense on stilts, but there is a difference between the racism of the powerful and the racism of the weak.

Ashley, come to Gills, play for the shirt, and kill the ugly jibes for good.
 
Alderman Barnes said:
Sorry about that, maybe I should have expressed myself more clearly. I meant that around that time, white players did say and do equally stupid things and it did get reported in the papers (otherwise, to be honest, our gutter press would have been derelicting its duty).

At the same time, though, I was agreeing with Wayne that black players get worse stick, because racism gets added into the mix.

Black people can be bell-ends too, but racism makes the situation worse and kills nuanced thinking. Let's take a hypothetical situation:

Player A (white twat) does something arrogant/stupid/annoying. The tabloids pick up on it and he gets ridiculed, criticised or even abused for it. This has happened plenty of times.

Player B (black twat) does exactly the same thing that Player A did. The tabloids pick up on it and he gets the same ridicule, criticisism and abuse. This has also happened plenty of times.

The problem is, though, that racists exist. So in addition to the deserved reaction that Player A got, Player B gets a bit more because of racists piling onto him as well.

Player B (having been on the receiving end of racism for the whole of his life) might then, erronously but understandably, declare all criticism of him to be racist, because some of it undoubtably is.

As a result, people who don't like Player B because he's a dickhead feel that Player B or people purporting to defend him have called them racists, when they're not.

Actual racists then pounce on the whole thing to claim that Player B is playing the race card, and how come you can't get Robinson's Golliwogs anymore?

And that's how an innocent thread can turn into such a po-faced shitshow as this one.


Anyway, he's 38 years old now and his legs will have gone.
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Well said.
Too many (black and white) are too quick to pull the race card.
It doesn't help debate.
 
jokerman said:
Anyone can be a racist. I happen to think we all are and self-checking is a healthy practice. Some try to argue that oppressed people cannot be racist. This is nonsense on stilts, but there is a difference between the racism of the powerful and the racism of the weak.
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This, absolutely.
 
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