General politics thread: | Page 96 | Vital Football

General politics thread:

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i am a tree said:
Given the last few hundred years of their history, the prevalence of extremist ideologies isn't particularly surprising.

Let's see if the US and UK see what's happening in Afghanistan now, compare it to what happened in Iraq after the handover, and learn some lessons about their middle east strategy.
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I just hope that we have finally learned to keep our noses out of a country we can do fuck all about changing.
 
not sure we can just leave it as a lesson learned, we need to take some responsibility for what is likely to be a far more severe takeover with far reaching consequences,
 
i am a tree said:
Given the last few hundred years of their history, the prevalence of extremist ideologies isn't particularly surprising.

Let's see if the US and UK see what's happening in Afghanistan now, compare it to what happened in Iraq after the handover, and learn some lessons about their middle east strategy.
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living in fear/mass psychosis totally related for sure.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Taliban have basically retaken Afghanistan in a few weeks.

The whole thing is collapsing like a house of cards

I feel awful for all the women of Afghanistan. But it seems like the men of Afghanistan want this, or certainly didn't want freedom and democracy enough. The fact that that Taliban have been fighting in the hills for 20 years and have had no problem recruitinga generation of thousands of young men speaks volumes.
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Think its difficult to talk about afghanistan without acknowledging the elephant in the room facilitating it all, pakistan. Guess having nukes makes them difficult to manage.
 
radfordinlondon said:
Think its difficult to talk about afghanistan without acknowledging the elephant in the room facilitating it all, pakistan. Guess having nukes makes them difficult to manage.
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A very valid point.

With allies like Pakistan, who needs enemies?

I suppose the foreign policy trick is to keep them smiling at you and keep the knife concealed behind their back.

Pakistan is a good indication of the kind of government men in the region want.

Or maybe what happens in Afghanistan in the next few weeks will be, IDK.
 
https://scholars-stage.org/fighting-like-taliban/

This is a great take on Afghanistan and shows why what has happened happened and why no-one should be surprised.

People fought in Afghanistan, and people died, but not always in the obvious way. They had been fighting for so long, twenty-three years then, that by the time the Americans arrived the Afghans had developed an elaborate set of rules designed to spare as many fighters as they could. So the war could go on forever. Men fought, men switched sides, men lined up and fought again. War in Afghanistan often seemed like a game of pickup basketball, a contest among friends, a tournament where you never knew which team you’d be on when the next game got under way. Shirts today, skins tomorrow. On Tuesday, you might be part of a fearsome Taliban regiment, running into a minefield. And on Wednesday you might be manning a checkpoint for some gang of the Northern Alliance. By Thursday you could be back with the Talibs again, holding up your Kalashnikov and promising to wage jihad forever. War was serious in Afghanistan, but not that serious. It was part of everyday life. It was a job. Only the civilians seemed to lose.

Battles were often decided this way, not by actual fighting, but by flipping gangs of soldiers. One day, the Taliban might have four thousand soldiers, and the next, only half that, with the warlords of the Northern Alliance suddenly larger by a similar amount. The fighting began when the bargaining stopped, and the bargaining went right up until the end. The losers were the ones who were too stubborn, too stupid or too fanatical to make a deal. Suddenly, they would find themselves outnumbered, and then they would die. It was a kind of natural selection.

One of the Afghan militia commanders with whom I traveled, Daoud Khan, was a master of this complicated game. He was portly and well dressed, and he ate very well. The Afghans spoke of him in reverent tones, but he didn’t seem like much of a warrior to me. He’d never fought for the Taliban himself, but thousands of his former soldiers were now in the Taliban ranks. Why kill them when he could just bring them back to his side? Khan captured his first city, Taloqan, without firing a single shot. He did it by persuading the local Taliban leader, a man named Abdullah Gard, to switch sides.
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Pope John XXIII said:
Not sure why you are showing us this?
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He obviously finds it novel that its not just Tories who are crooks.

Its all part of the Boris masterplan of levelling up; he is opening up white collar crime for the less well off.

Before you know it there will be reports of old Etonians smashing up restaurants and car windscreens, all in the name of fun.

Its enough to make you choke on your foie gras
 
ive thought about this the last few days before I posted, I spent 2 tours in Afghanistan when it was early doors and like the wild west.

I ve seen it first hand for the lunacy it really is, sadly I have lost friends and was involved in a few incidents that whilst i was unscathed, have stayed with me and still play on my mind. The local army are as effective as a chocolate teapot, they spend most of the day stoned and really couldnt give a toss who runs the country, i see alot of people from the comfort of their living room comment on things they really have zero clue about on facebook etc

as it stands myself and many others feel it wasted our time, we lost our mates for nothing, we tried to protect the helpless and it was just a waste of time and effort it seems
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Not sure why you are showing us this?
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Well. The virtuous (vandalism) act of toppling a stature because of the historic links to the African/trans-Atlantic slave trade, has stimulated contributions to a BLM charity, aiming to raise money for a life changing trip to Africa for 15 young ‘uns.

This charity money has been stolen by these "virtuous" people.

I find that a tad funny in an ironic way.
 
Strett said:
Well. The virtuous (vandalism) act of toppling a stature because of the historic links to the African/trans-Atlantic slave trade, has stimulated contributions to a BLM charity, aiming to raise money for a life changing trip to Africa for 15 young ‘uns.

This charity money has been stolen by these "virtuous" people.

I find that a tad funny in an ironic way.
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Was the person who stole the money the same one that brought down that statue?
 
Southern red said:
ive thought about this the last few days before I posted, I spent 2 tours in Afghanistan when it was early doors and like the wild west.

I ve seen it first hand for the lunacy it really is, sadly I have lost friends and was involved in a few incidents that whilst i was unscathed, have stayed with me and still play on my mind. The local army are as effective as a chocolate teapot, they spend most of the day stoned and really couldnt give a toss who runs the country, i see alot of people from the comfort of their living room comment on things they really have zero clue about on facebook etc

as it stands myself and many others feel it wasted our time, we lost our mates for nothing, we tried to protect the helpless and it was just a waste of time and effort it seems
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Thank you for your service. I haven't been but I have friends who went with the Army and RAF and have heard some of their stories. I really feel for them, and you, this week. Maybe there is some consolation that life has been dangerous, but better, especially for women, over the last two decades in Afghanistan.
 
Southern red said:
ive thought about this the last few days before I posted, I spent 2 tours in Afghanistan when it was early doors and like the wild west.

I ve seen it first hand for the lunacy it really is, sadly I have lost friends and was involved in a few incidents that whilst i was unscathed, have stayed with me and still play on my mind. The local army are as effective as a chocolate teapot, they spend most of the day stoned and really couldnt give a toss who runs the country, i see alot of people from the comfort of their living room comment on things they really have zero clue about on facebook etc

as it stands myself and many others feel it wasted our time, we lost our mates for nothing, we tried to protect the helpless and it was just a waste of time and effort it seems
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I have seen some commentators sympathising with Biden's position, arguing that a trillion has been spent and the allied armies have been betrayed by the Afghans at every turn.

How does that view fit with your experiences?
 
Southern red said:
ive thought about this the last few days before I posted, I spent 2 tours in Afghanistan when it was early doors and like the wild west.

I ve seen it first hand for the lunacy it really is, sadly I have lost friends and was involved in a few incidents that whilst i was unscathed, have stayed with me and still play on my mind. The local army are as effective as a chocolate teapot, they spend most of the day stoned and really couldnt give a toss who runs the country, i see alot of people from the comfort of their living room comment on things they really have zero clue about on facebook etc

as it stands myself and many others feel it wasted our time, we lost our mates for nothing, we tried to protect the helpless and it was just a waste of time and effort it seems
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Operation Herrick?
 
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