General politics thread: | Page 69 | Vital Football

General politics thread:

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Strett said:
Did Neil Ferguson do that projection?
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John Curtice.

"Labour, on 29%, were as much as seven points behind the Conservatives. That might be less than the 12 point deficit at the 2019 general election, but still leaves the party's standing looking very similar to many a lacklustre performance under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. "

I dunno, cutting Corbyn's 12pt deficit to 7pts certainly isn't a big victory or anything for them to celebrate but it isn't to be sniffed at either in a relatively short time.
You have been very critical of Drakeford on here but he is looking at a record equalling result for Labour in Wales.
They should have done better but this was a hard time for Labour to face elections. The vaccine bounce has been good for encumbants. I think Hartlepool being quite so brexity and an unsuitable Labour candidate have skewed the national narrative a bit. It certainly won't make any difference to the Westminster mathematics.
 
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in_the_top_one said:
John Curtice.

"Labour, on 29%, were as much as seven points behind the Conservatives. That might be less than the 12 point deficit at the 2019 general election, but still leaves the party's standing looking very similar to many a lacklustre performance under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. "

I dunno, cutting Corbyn's 12pt deficit to 7pts certainly isn't a big victory or anything for them to celebrate but it isn't to be sniffed at either in a relatively short time.
You have been very critical of Drakeford on here but he is looking at a record equalling result for Labour in Wales.
They should have done better but this was a hard time for Labour to face elections. The vaccine bounce has been good for encumbants. I think Hartlepool being quite so brexity and an unsuitable Labour candidate have skewed the marginal narrative a bit. It certainly won't make any difference to the Westminster mathematics.
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Never been to Hartlepool. Seeing it this morning on the BBC ob that warship looks majestic. Love historical ships, so I may pay a visit.

I’ll tell you a story.
The mug I use at work for my tea says ‘Engineer’s Brew’ and is a memento from SS Great Britain in Bristol. It has a proper mug handle you can fit 4 fingers in.
You can tell your mates that down the pub, when they open. :thumbup:
 
in_the_top_one said:
It certainly won't make any difference to the Westminster mathematics.
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I would guess there won't be much that happens for three years that will make much difference to the Westminster maths, unless Scotland tootles off and leaves the Tories with an even bigger majority. That's not very likely to be sorted within that timescale either.
 
Lienking said:
I would guess there won't be much that happens for three years that will make much difference to the Westminster maths, unless Scotland tootles off and leaves the Tories with an even bigger majority. That's not very likely to be sorted within that timescale either.
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the constituency boundary changes too. Some say the reduction of MPs from 650 to 600 may give the Tory’s 15 more seats.
 
Strett said:
the constituency boundary changes too. Some say the reduction of MPs from 650 to 600 may give the Tory’s 15 more seats.
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Of course it won't

That is based on 2015 assumptions about where Labour seats come from. Those assumptions are all in the bin. Labour could easily lose those 15 seats all on their own. And there is no accurate calculation for how merging different seats together will swing them
 
InvincibleBrianMan said:
Call me a class reductionist if you like, but Labour has to win back the working class vote through economically serving the needs of that class. It is that simple.

Talk of "hand outs" in the negative when there are generations who will never be able to afford to buy a house ( with no option of quality subsidised, affordable, state housing either) , or afford a decent education ( that their grandparents could have gotten for free) is an insult to that class.

Calls for "bootstrapping" from the privileged
few is the problem not the solution.
we live in a world where the post war consensus should have lead to an egalitarian present where everyone had free education, affordable state owned housing as an option, and a well paid job to pay for a decent lifestyle for all. There is enough capital in the system to fund a utopian, egalitarian society for the good of all, but...


That post-war dream was stolen from the masses by the capitalist class and untill the Labour party ( or whatever comes after it) face up to the reality of a lost class war and stop licking the boots of their capitalist masters, they will never hold power again.
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With respect you do seem to have a touch of the class reductionism 🤣🤣

Identity politics, the environment and technology all cut across class, its more complicated now. In one of fates little ironies, it makes organised social action more difficult at precisely the time it is need most.

The system requires what it has always required which is balance; whereas we are currently getting more unbalanced.
 
Strett said:
the constituency boundary changes too. Some say the reduction of MPs from 650 to 600 may give the Tory’s 15 more seats.
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In light of brexit, do you you think they would likely opt to purchase Spanish automobiles and who will be paying for these chap?
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Very few people identify themselves as working class in the way that you do. Rehashing the politics of the 1970s is a complete dead end.
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Regardless of whether people identify as working class or not, there is a massive swathe of the younger generations in particular that have been disenfranchised by "free market economics" and the class war visited on them by the capitalist class.

Viewing society through the lens of critical race theory or some other woke theory does nothing to fix the inequality.
 
InvincibleBrianMan said:
Regardless of whether people identify as working class or not, there is a massive swathe of the younger generations in particular that have been disenfranchised by "free market economics" and the class war visited on them by the capitalist class.

Viewing society through the lens of critical race theory or some other woke theory does nothing to fix the inequality.
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You can throw all the big academic words and arrogant confidence at it that you want, but you don't live here, you don't know the people you are assigning motives to and you haven't the slightest clue what the fuck you are talking about.
 
radfordinlondon said:
With respect you do seem to have a touch of the class reductionism 🤣🤣

Identity politics, the environment and technology all cut across class, its more complicated now. In one of fates little ironies, it makes organised social action more difficult at precisely the time it is need most.

The system requires what it has always required which is balance; whereas we are currently getting more unbalanced.
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I am an unapologetic class reductionist, yes. Sure it's more complex than that but please explain to me what other mechanism other than class struggle has ever brought benefits to the workers?
 
Pope John XXIII said:
You can throw all the big academic words and arrogant confidence at it that you want, but you don't live here, you don't know the people you are assigning motives to and you haven't the slightest clue what the fuck you are talking about.
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I lived there, I live here, I see the way capitalism works - I'm a cultural Marxist, get over it!
 
InvincibleBrianMan said:
I lived there, I live here, I see the way capitalism works - I'm a cultural Marxist, get over it!
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You're an academic talking academic bollocks that has no bearing on the real lives of those you pontificate about.

Go and talk to Hartlepool voters about class reductionism or cultural Marxism.

FFS.

If labour is the party of people like you then they really are fucked.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
You're an academic talking academic bollocks that has no bearing on the real lives of those you pontificate about.

Go and talk to Hartlepool voters about class reductionism or cultural Marxism.

FFS.

If labour is the party of people like you then they really are fucked.
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If you would like a lesson on the terms I would be happy to provide you with an overview. For an alleged Educator you're not half ignorant are you?
 
InvincibleBrianMan said:
If you would like a lesson on the terms I would be happy to provide you with an overview. For an alleged Educator you're not half ignorant are you?
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You know when Gove said the public were "tired of experts"?

It was people like you he was talking about, and I'm thinking he might have had a point.
 
InvincibleBrianMan said:
Regardless of whether people identify as working class or not, there is a massive swathe of the younger generations in particular that have been disenfranchised by "free market economics" and the class war visited on them by the capitalist class.

Viewing society through the lens of critical race theory or some other woke theory does nothing to fix the inequality.
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It's not regardless because to effectively communicate and lay out a vision for people to buy into you first have to listen and secondly understand. You're talking a language nobody but middle class academics can relate to.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
She's not gone. She remains elected deputy leader. She's just not the campaign chair anymore.

Given the success of the campaign, is that really a surprise?
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Raynor has gone from Camp Chair. He can’t remove her from deputy as it is an elected position. Her power is diminished. Some more manoeuvres required. Local parties have more breathing space.
 
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