Freedom of speech n/g | Page 2 | Vital Football

Freedom of speech n/g

No-one doubts that it is ones right to exercise free speech, which why so many British and Commonwealth service men and women and civilians, including many muslims, gave their lives to protect such freedom that those from the far right, that you so admire, would wish to banish.

Free speech is welcome; that which is unlawful is not.

I find it strange that you should choose to visit the war graves of fallen soldiers when your views are so clearly aligned with the past rhetoric of the likes of Oswald Moseley.
 
I am really shocked that Valencia has taken so long to pick up on the three being banned and the Telford story. These have been trending for over a week on the ?libertarian? far right sites.

The Telford story is not new (and some sentences have been handed out) but the new element is the size of the cover up and was covered in the media last weekend and at the start of the week. Not sure if this is about a cover up of muslim involvement or the failure of the uk government to expose the failures of the police, legal, social services and government departments of yet another widespread sex scandal (grooming, child molestation, etc).

The banning of the three is interesting as none of them are british and therefore are we not just ?taking back our sovereignty and protecting our borders)?.
The background to this is that people were calling for muslim hate preachers to be banned from entering this country. This was therefore tightened up but covers ANYONE promoting hatred or violence. If you really believe in free speech then unfortunately you will have to let the hate spreading muslim clerics.

The UK is indeed letting IS fighters back into this country but they are actually british citizens and are supposed to be arrested at the port of entry on return, of course the lack of resources impacts this. Not ideal but this is the result of being a law based country, we did try use the other method at first which was to take few prisoners when fighting Isis.

As for the three who were banned, the decision was based around one of them coming to interview the founder of the efl and having previos for display small placards saying ?allah is a gay god? in a muslim area as part of a ?sociological experiment?. Another promotes segregation aka apartheid, and it goes on.

I believe in free speech so for me I dont care if these idiots are allowed in or not unless they are preaching violence but you have to ask yourself, are you prepared to let the extreme Muslim preachers into this country?
 
Jerryattrick - 18/3/2018 23:18

I am really shocked that Valencia has taken so long to pick up on the three being banned and the Telford story. These have been trending for over a week on the ?libertarian? far right sites.

The Telford story is not new (and some sentences have been handed out) but the new element is the size of the cover up and was covered in the media last weekend and at the start of the week. Not sure if this is about a cover up of muslim involvement or the failure of the uk government to expose the failures of the police, legal, social services and government departments of yet another widespread sex scandal (grooming, child molestation, etc).

The banning of the three is interesting as none of them are british and therefore are we not just ?taking back our sovereignty and protecting our borders)?.
The background to this is that people were calling for muslim hate preachers to be banned from entering this country. This was therefore tightened up but covers ANYONE promoting hatred or violence. If you really believe in free speech then unfortunately you will have to let the hate spreading muslim clerics.

The UK is indeed letting IS fighters back into this country but they are actually british citizens and are supposed to be arrested at the port of entry on return, of course the lack of resources impacts this. Not ideal but this is the result of being a law based country, we did try use the other method at first which was to take few prisoners when fighting Isis.

As for the three who were banned, the decision was based around one of them coming to interview the founder of the efl and having previos for display small placards saying ?allah is a gay god? in a muslim area as part of a ?sociological experiment?. Another promotes segregation aka apartheid, and it goes on.

I believe in free speech so for me I dont care if these idiots are allowed in or not unless they are preaching violence but you have to ask yourself, are you prepared to let the extreme Muslim preachers into this country?
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Thanks for your explanation Jerry , it saved me from typing !

Extreme Muslim preachers are already amongst us , in our societies. Google 'Lantern of Knowledge , Leyton'.

Freedom of speech means we can question these things , why they are being allowed to flourish? ...without being shouted down by the usuals.
 
Have u looked into the football league alliance thing Wayne, I doubt it. The media do not report on what it really stands for and how many people are involved in the marches . The only report on the last March was a photo of Tommy Robinson having his hands shaken He wasn't part of the march he was told he wasn't wanted, yet all the media did was show a photo of him on the sidelines . The fla are not racists thugs, (of course there are members who are not that naive , the same as not all Muslims are terrorists)They are just concerned about the future of the country and to try and stop the terrorist attacks.
I live in gillingham, work in gillingham, and everyone I know is concerned about the future of this country . They are just normal people with friends from all races, and are fed up with the way this country is run.
i am not racist but I don't agree with most of the liver livid well educated lefties on this site. If u don't agree with their view then u are branded a racist. Well in that case there are a hell of a lot of racists about.



 
"Extreme Muslim preachers are already amongst us , in our societies. Google 'Lantern of Knowledge , Leyton'. "

It's called freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means you can more or less say what you like even if perhaps it offends you, which is something you can't grasp. I suggest you take a look at the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, as amended.
 
Wayne.Kerr - 18/3/2018 23:51

"Extreme Muslim preachers are already amongst us , in our societies. Google 'Lantern of Knowledge , Leyton'. "

It's called freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means you can more or less say what you like even if perhaps it offends you, which is something you can't grasp. I suggest you take a look at the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, as amended.
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The hatred being spread in mosques and unregulated religious schools is unabating. Every school term we hesitate , somewhere children are being taught to hate and kill.

This is widespread , happening under our noses.
Google ' Birmingham religious hatred schools'
 
Wayne.Kerr - 18/3/2018 22:49

Groups of men who groom and rape women don't do it in the name of islam; they happen to be muslims and should be punished for it.
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"They happen to be Muslims".

That's it then, their religion has nothing to do with it, it's just coincidence.

:21:
 
"They happen to be Muslims".

That's it then, their religion has nothing to do with it, it's just coincidence.

Of course it isn't convenience and of course it isn't a coincidence but a muslim isn't by definition a paedophile and vice versa. 80% of paedophiles are white but that doesn't mean we paint all white men as paedophiles and start harrassing them.

Extreme preachers, religious and non religious are a problem, which needs addressing, likewise dodgy schools. Many, broadly on the left, have been talking about and trying to act on these issues for years. There have been those, who buried their heads in the sand and that's another problem in itself. As some keep reminding us this is a football message board. Precious little comment on the 6 known suicide victims of sexual abuse within football. No one in the game has lifted a finger all the time abusers were finding and developing football gold. How about the various churches and religions, which harbour vast grooming and abusing gangs and the cover ups, which continue and reach right to the top.

To tackle this seriously we need to start with attitudes towards women. There is a very serious problem of extreme views within Islam, which promote these attitudes but it is NOT an integral part of Islam and many, many muslims strongly oppose these views. You can congregate on closed internet groups spouting violen racist hate and mobilizing with a slightly more respectable face, frighten ordinary muslims in the street aqnd at their places of worship, organise marches designed to provoke reactions and encourage general hatred of muslims. Or you can try to tackle the problem of extremism more intelligently by separating the haters from the mainstream, removing the young from danger and offering them alternatives. Thre is only one way for those, who actually want a solution.
 
valenciagill - 19/3/2018 13:07

More cowardly attacks

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-charged-attempted-murder-after-12214214
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Darren Osborne got Life (minimum term 43 years) for driving into a crowd of Muslims at Finsbury Park. I think I'll take the under, on what Mr Abdul will get.
 
ThreeSixes - 19/3/2018 14:22

valenciagill - 19/3/2018 13:07

More cowardly attacks

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-charged-attempted-murder-after-12214214
Click to expand...

Darren Osborne got Life (minimum term 43 years) for driving into a crowd of Muslims at Finsbury Park. I think I'll take the under, on what Mr Abdul will get.
Click to expand...

He will probably get less , as they will be keen to stress, the lack of religious motivation.
 
Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom to lie.

We have slander and libel laws for a reason after all, hate speech is and its like, regardless of it's target, falls under a similar umbrella in law, and rightly so.

Read your history and see what happened in 1930s Germany if you want to see why these laws are important.
 
MedwayModernist - 19/3/2018 17:31

Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom to lie.

We have slander and libel laws for a reason after all, hate speech is and its like, regardless of it's target, falls under a similar umbrella in law, and rightly so.

Read your history and see what happened in 1930s Germany if you want to see why these laws are important.
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I was thinking of the future , rather than the past , MM.(Grand kids etc)

As for telling lies , that's a Govt thing. The truth of what is going on, is what's important.

It seems people are very quick to label the truth as racism / hate crime.

Buy they won't silence it.
 
valenciagill - 19/3/2018 15:22

ThreeSixes - 19/3/2018 14:22

valenciagill - 19/3/2018 13:07

More cowardly attacks

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-charged-attempted-murder-after-12214214
Click to expand...

Darren Osborne got Life (minimum term 43 years) for driving into a crowd of Muslims at Finsbury Park. I think I'll take the under, on what Mr Abdul will get.
Click to expand...

He will probably get less , as they will be keen to stress, the lack of religious motivation.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't want the fact that this bloke didn't actually kill anyone to get in the way of a good slur would we?
 
Mercifully no one died. I think if you drive a 4x4 into a nightclub , there has to be intent to seriously harm or kill.
 
From people at the scene and reporting it appears so far that the incident at gravesend is more to do with some dick getting annoyed with the bouncers. We have had similar incidents locally over the years even to the extent that bullets have been fired at night club doors when people have been turned away.

As I say thats so far in the investigation.
 
Yes, hence attempted murder. Although the maximum sentence is life, I would guess he'd get 20+ years. The difference between murder and an attempt is that attempted murder carries a MAXIMUM sentence of life but murder has a mandatory life sentence with the option of parole.
I was involved in an attempted murder case last year and the officers in the case were amazed that the accused got 21 years. The sentence will all depend on aggravating and mitigating circumstances.
 
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